Is Fred really this dumb?

[postdiction]

houheffna wrote:

Seriously, you can't have a team made up of Calderon, Hedo and Bargianni. They would win like 10-15 games. You can't lose Bosh and become the laughing stock of the league.

I think you exaggerate that scenario, I don't think its a big deal if Toronto loses Bosh and then becomes a lottery team...that is the best way for them to improve is to bottom out...

I agree, the Raptors (or at least the fans I have talked to) want to "bottom out" to get high lottery picks.

However, one thing unusual about their situation is that even if they bottom out and get a good player in the draft, they have so many really really bad contracts that go on for 3-4 years that they are pretty much stuck being bad to mediocre regardless.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Seriously, you can't have a team made up of Calderon, Hedo and Bargianni. They would win like 10-15 games. You can't lose Bosh and become the laughing stock of the league.

I think you exaggerate that scenario, I don't think its a big deal if Toronto loses Bosh and then becomes a lottery team...that is the best way for them to improve is to bottom out...

I don't know about that. They can't keep talent, they are better for trading guys on not the greatest contracts. Lets face it, they will never be a contender but they should still be a playoff team.

 

[houheffna]

I don't know about that. They can't keep talent, they are better for trading guys on not the greatest contracts. Lets face it, they will never be a contender but they should still be a playoff team.

What??? They need to bottom out and get lottery picks to get better man, simple as that...they want to win not just make the playoffs...

 

[Bullsman24]

You build through the lottery. Only in the case of Boston has a team really ever acquired basically a championship. Rebuilding is the way to go. You'd want more role player types and draft picks because you're hoping to land a young superstar.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I don't know about that. They can't keep talent, they are better for trading guys on not the greatest contracts. Lets face it, they will never be a contender but they should still be a playoff team.

What??? They need to bottom out and get lottery picks to get better man, simple as that...they want to win not just make the playoffs...

With a primarily vet team in place and a unlikely hood in lucking into that superstar ala Bron or Durant, I don't see them having the time with fans to complelty gut the team like needed. This isn't a market like we have or NY has. They haven't done much with that team to warrant patience.

Theoretically I agree with you. I would gut the team, start from scratch and suck for 304 years aquiring lotto picks and clearing cap space but you still need to produce as a gm and give fans a reason to think your relevant.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Seriously, you can't have a team made up of Calderon, Hedo and Bargianni. They would win like 10-15 games. You can't lose Bosh and become the laughing stock of the league.

Why not? Suck it up for a year and you've got a high pick. You've got the trade exception + picks you got from Bosh. You even have cap space in 2011. Possibly a lot of cap space, if they can deal with the Knicks and do Bosh + Hedo for Eddy Curry + picks. If they put up with one awful year they could be a team on the rise and back in the playoffs in 2012.

I absolutely think you can say to your fans "Sure we lost Bosh, but we've got a plan for next off season, we're going to build a new team and we have all these assets to do it with". If I'm a Toronto fan that plan excites me a lot more than being a mediocre mid lottery team with Bynum or something.

I'd give up Noah and Deng for Bosh in a heartbeat if we signed Bron. Rose, Bron and Bosh will attrack some vets chasing rings to help. We also will have a chance to resign Miller and bring over Asik to help at Center.

We'd have to sign Miller and Asik with whatever cap space is left over, since we'd be renouncing Miller to sign LeBron. Sending out Noah & Deng + taking back Bosh leaves us with a couple of million by current cap estimates. I can't see why Asik comes over for that. Miller probably goes to the Rockets too (I think that's who else he named as interested).

 

[Diddy1122]

Basketball in Canada is about as relevant as a Frankie Breakfast-Sandwich post. FACE!

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

Why not? Suck it up for a year and you've got a high pick. You've got the trade exception + picks you got from Bosh. You even have cap space in 2011. Possibly a lot of cap space, if they can deal with the Knicks and do Bosh + Hedo for Eddy Curry + picks. If they put up with one awful year they could be a team on the rise and back in the playoffs in 2012.

I absolutely think you can say to your fans "Sure we lost Bosh, but we've got a plan for next off season, we're going to build a new team and we have all these assets to do it with". If I'm a Toronto fan that plan excites me a lot more than being a mediocre mid lottery team with Bynum or something.

I just don't think that the Raptors are willing to give up all that quick on being relevant. Supposedly from the article, the raptors are into such an idea. I think a team like the bulls or knicks can but the raptors need something to keep people coming in.

I'd give up Noah and Deng for Bosh in a heartbeat if we signed Bron. Rose, Bron and Bosh will attrack some vets chasing rings to help. We also will have a chance to resign Miller and bring over Asik to help at Center.

Either one would be helpful and I think we certainly have the inside track for both. If Asik wants to be in the NBA, he has to come here and I think Miller would rather be on a contender over make a few extra bucks. Miller is running out of time and hasn't won a ring. As long as we got one, we would be fine.
We'd have to sign Miller and Asik with whatever cap space is left over, since we'd be renouncing Miller to sign LeBron. Sending out Noah & Deng + taking back Bosh leaves us with a couple of million by current cap estimates. I can't see why Asik comes over for that. Miller probably goes to the Rockets too (I think that's who else he named as interested).[/quote]

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

If Asik wants to be in the NBA, he has to come here

I can't find the exact details of his current deal, but it's allegedly in the 5 million a year US range. He'd have to take a significant pay cut to come to the NBA unless we're able to offer a MLE type salary.

I think Miller would rather be on a contender over make a few extra bucks.

Maybe Miller signs for the min with us, I don't know. The problem will be that the Rockets will probably get first shot at him while we're still working things out with other FAs.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I can't find the exact details of his current deal, but it's allegedly in the 5 million a year US range. He'd have to take a significant pay cut to come to the NBA unless we're able to offer a MLE type salary.

I think your off because I don't think we offer him the MLE being unproven. He'd be making as much as Rose is. I don't I've ever heard of the #30 something pick making as much as the #1 pick.

Maybe Miller signs for the min with us, I don't know. The problem will be that the Rockets will probably get first shot at him while we're still working things out with other FAs.

The rockets will be too busy trying to work a s&t to worry about Miller. They plan on being aggressive in trades. I don't think it takes more than a few hours before the top guys are locked up. They have probably already made up their mind.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

I think your off because I don't think we offer him the MLE being unproven. He'd be making as much as Rose is. I don't I've ever heard of the #30 something pick making as much as the #1 pick.

Well I don't know what Asik is thinking and maybe he has a burning desire to prove himself in the NBA. But most players aren't going to willingly take a pay cut, we have to outbid the Euro clubs for his services.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

I think your off because I don't think we offer him the MLE being unproven. He'd be making as much as Rose is. I don't I've ever heard of the #30 something pick making as much as the #1 pick.

Well I don't know what Asik is thinking and maybe he has a burning desire to prove himself in the NBA. But most players aren't going to willingly take a pay cut, we have to outbid the Euro clubs for his services.

I tried looking but I doubt he makes 5 mill too. Thats like a top salary in europe. Thats what Childerless got when they pryed him away from Atlanta and thats when the Euro was strong, which it isn't anymore.

 

[Shakes]

I don't know, all I could find was that he turned down a deal rumoured to be worth around 5/25 for a 2 year deal so he had the option of going to the NBA.

Childress is being paid the equivalent of 10 million US a year according to wikipedia.

 

[TheStig]

Again, I don't know about what he has but he isn't getting more than the #1 pick. I thought by the way he did sign a longer deal but it just has an opt out. Only the bulls know the details I guess.

Those numbers are based on when the Euro was strong. I think it was 1.8 dollars per euro. Now its cut down significantly to 1.23. He effectively is making a third less now.