IST: Cincinnati Reds (37-37) at Chicago Cubs (31-42)

[chibears55]

They can. But doesn't mean that they will. We will see, but I highly doubt we will acquire enough quality OFs to make DFAing Sweeney likely.

they only need to acquire 2 if they go with Alcantara in CF..
with Lake, bring back Bonifacio, and one other....

 

[TL1961]

ESPN analyst had Rizzo being picked for the Home Run Derby.

i hope not. It ruins a player's swing for a while.

(Like me in a scramble)

 

[JZsportsfan]

Maybe the Cubs will go after the Cuban defector Tomas to pencil into the OF for the future

 

[Boobaby1]

I think that Sammy Sosa is a great player to look at when you think about Junior Lake. If he ends up being Sammy Sosa, I'll shit my pants. That's a longshot. But Sosa struggled mightily in his first 1000ish PAs. I think that the only way that you're going to get Junior Lake to get better is to give him ABs to try to work through the problems. I feel the same way about Mike Olt. They are not going to get better by sitting on the bench. They are going to get better with consistent ABs. If that happens here or in AAA, I don't care. But they are not going to better us by sitting on the bench.

Lake is a hack. He is striking out more than 1 out of every 3 at bats. Over a 600 AB year as you say he needs, my math comes out to over 200 strikeouts. Think its a fluke? After a red-hot start last year, he still managed to whiff 68 times in 236 AB's. That's still close to 1 out of 3.

Sorry, but if you are going to have that many strikeouts, you better be hitting homer totals like Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn did in their prime to warrant getting playing time.

As for Olt, he is all-or-nothing. A putrid .149 average and .230 OBP isn't going to cut it in the majors. Hell, those are Ian Stewart-like numbers. :clap:

 

[chibears55]

Heard on the game yesterday the cubs are the worst in the majors in 2 run games.... tonight sort of showing that.... What concerns me is they appear to have no urgency whatsoever to have Bryant and Baez in the majors which means you're likely looking at July next year before you see them.... on a team that can't hit. There's also very little in terms of hitters that will be FA's so I really am not seeing where they are going to get hitting next year.

they don't have much of an outfield offensively, especially from left side and that what hurts them..

as far as baez and bryant goes, the latest we see them would be late April if gaining that extra year of control is that important to them...

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[Boobaby1]

i hope not. It ruins a player's swing for a while.

(Like me in a scramble)

Well considering the Cubs aren't going to the playoffs, I don't think it will hurt this year. :shot:

 

[TL1961]

I will take my chances in Junior Lake not being Sammy Sosa. I don't think there was much value in Lake facing a guy like Simon tonight who would have dominated him. And the notion that Olt and Lake isn't getting consistent playing time is crazy since they are both in the top 8 Cubs in plate appearances.

Well, it's not crazy. They are in the Top 8 because everybody is splitting time. Nobody (except Castro and Rizzo) is getting consistent playing time.

I won't bet on Lake or Olt becoming stars, but I absolutely agree they should get more AB's and a chance to see what they can be. Both may have lower floors than Sweeney, Schierholtz, et al, but they also have higher ceilings. If you're going to take your lumps giving them AB's, this is the year to do it.

 

[chibears55]

Well, it's not crazy. They are in the Top 8 because everybody is splitting time. Nobody (except Castro and Rizzo) is getting consistent playing time.

I won't bet on Lake or Olt becoming stars, but I absolutely agree they should get more AB's and a chance to see what they can be. Both may have lower floors than Sweeney, Schierholtz, et al, but they also have higher ceilings. If you're going to take your lumps giving them AB's, this is the year to do it.

Lake got his playing time increased when sweeney , ruggiano,and Kalish went down..

like i said earlier, the offense has a bit more spark in it with lake in lineup.. not saying he a starter, I personally feel he a no.4 at best.. just would prefer seeing him in lineup more then any of the others beside Schierholtz. ..

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[dabears253313]

Might as well bring up Vitters, Szczur, Jackson and/or Kalish with Sweeney, Coghlan, Schierholtz and Ruggiano all batting .200. There is no excuse for Junior Lake not playing. Lake is 24, the Cubs need to see what they have in him. He won't improve his plate discipline by sitting on the bench. They should send him down to AAA if he isn't going to play in the bigs.

Ruggiano, Sweeney and Coghlan combined only have two more runs scored than what Lake has scored by himself this season and those three combined have less rbi's than Lake. I understand some people would rather have those three play instead of Lake because of OBP, taking walks, etc. but OBP and walks don't matter when none of them score runs or drive in runs. I'd rather have someone like Lake get a base hit and drive in a run than take a walk and eventually get stranded. Lake is also the only player that the Cubs attempt to steal with, with the exception of Emilio Bonifacio.

Not saying Lake is the same as Starlin Castro, but people would rather have Castro bat .260 and take walks rather than him getting 200 hits and batting .300. Screw the walks, I'll take the hits and the .300 average!

 

[dabynsky]

Ruggiano, Sweeney and Coghlan combined only have two more runs scored than what Lake has scored by himself this season and those three combined have less rbi's than Lake. I understand some people would rather have those three play instead of Lake because of OBP, taking walks, etc. but OBP and walks don't matter when none of them score runs or drive in runs. I'd rather have someone like Lake get a base hit and drive in a run than take a walk and eventually get stranded. Lake is also the only player that the Cubs attempt to steal with, with the exception of Emilio Bonifacio.

Not saying Lake is the same as Starlin Castro, but people would rather have Castro bat .260 and take walks rather than him getting 200 hits and batting .300. Screw the walks, I'll take the hits and the .300 average!

Thanks Dusty...

 

[dabynsky]

they only need to acquire 2 if they go with Alcantara in CF..
with Lake, bring back Bonifacio, and one other....

I said quality OFs...

 

[dabynsky]

Well, it's not crazy. They are in the Top 8 because everybody is splitting time. Nobody (except Castro and Rizzo) is getting consistent playing time.

I won't bet on Lake or Olt becoming stars, but I absolutely agree they should get more AB's and a chance to see what they can be. Both may have lower floors than Sweeney, Schierholtz, et al, but they also have higher ceilings. If you're going to take your lumps giving them AB's, this is the year to do it.

What would they learn by striking out a combined 7 times against Alfredo Simon? They aren't elite guys. The sink or swim approach is not the only way to develop players, and might not even be the fastest/best way.

 

[chibears55]

I said quality OFs...

maybe im misunderstanding your meaning of quality. but FA outfielders arent quality ?

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[dabynsky]

maybe im misunderstanding your meaning of quality. but FA outfielders arent quality ?

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Lake and Bonifacio are not good mlb starters. I've made a case for the Cubs going after Rasmus, but the market is thin on that front. Like I said I wouldn't be shocked if the Cubs cut ties, but I also don't think he is on the fast track out of here like some of you are claiming.

 

[chibears55]

Lake and Bonifacio are not good mlb starters. I've made a case for the Cubs going after Rasmus, but the market is thin on that front. Like I said I wouldn't be shocked if the Cubs cut ties, but I also don't think he is on the fast track out of here like some of you are claiming.

im actually agreeing with you. . id prefer lake and Bonifacio off the bench next year and bringing in 2 FA outfielders for LF and RF with also the possibility of Alcantara in CF

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[beckdawg]

I'll say it right now, if Alcantara doesn't end up at 2B he's going to have significantly less value as a player and I say this as someone who loves his offensive potential. Dexter Fowler is the 5th best CF in wRC+ this season but his defense is killing his fWAR to the point where he's the 11th best CF in fWAR. You're talking 1.5-2 win difference in the player he is and Billy Hamilton who's the #5 in terms of WAR over a full season.

Conversely, let's say Alcantara hits like we would expect at 2B and is average or slightly above average there. You're potentially talking about something similar to what Ian Kinsler was prior to his injury issues. 20 HR power and 30+ SB speed. That's maybe the difference between a 2-2.5 WAR player and a 4+ WAR player.

 

[zack54attack]

Forgot where I saw the stat but the Cubs bulpen has lost 21 games this season. After last night, 22...

If thats true, that's just....wow.

 

[beckdawg]

Forgot where I saw the stat but the Cubs bulpen has lost 21 games this season. After last night, 22...

If thats true, that's just....wow.

I don't think that's a very good stat though because the cubs have put their bullpen in a bad position with their inability to score and having 2 starters who haven't averaged 6 innings a start. The cubs still have the 8th best ERA for relievers at 3.22. They are 6th worst in the majors at 3.80 runs per game. In other words, when the bullpen is giving up runs they almost always are in situations where they give up leads. They aren't pitching with 3+ run leads often if ever.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I wonder how many batters Arrieta will go full on tonight... 1 so far.

 

[Captain Obvious]

That's 2...