IST: Cubs @ Marlins

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Anyone on here still think this team going to all of a sudden figure it out and be more then a mediocre .500 team?

I just don't see it, they still struggle against teams with worse record then them..

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So you're saying it isn't possible for these players to get hot. Teams igniting midway thru a season has happened plenty of times in MLB history.

I don't remember if you were you on the Omeletpants bandwagon last year during the June losing streak, seems like you probably were.

 

[TL1961]

Anyone on here still think this team going to all of a sudden figure it out and be more then a mediocre .500 team?

I just don't see it, they still struggle against teams with worse record then them..

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I do. Which is why I keep getting frustrated because it isn't happening.

 

[TL1961]

Daphne Zuniga just got doubled off to kill an inning.

Man on 2nd, nobody out. Almora fails to hit the ball and Z walks and gers doubled off. Fortunately, all after scoring 2, but still a fail.

 

[Globetrotter]

Let Lester swing away, but your hitters are bunting. Got it.

 

[chibears55]

So you're saying it isn't possible for these players to get hot. Teams igniting midway thru a season has happened plenty of times in MLB history.

I don't remember if you were you on the Omeletpants bandwagon last year during the June losing streak, seems like you probably were.

Omelette wagon..no
But it was frustrating to watch and the difference with last year spin was they had played 2 months of great baseball , so it was just of matter of when not if theyll get it going again last june/july..

It's not impossible to see players get hot as we've already seen certain players go through a hot streak..
But then they've fallen back into their funk..

We're at the end of June already and their best regular is hitting .262 (Rizzo)..
All talented hitters but too much up and down with them this year to feel
100% confidence that they'll just all start connecting for a long stretch..

Then you got the rotation....

Lester been good..
Arrieta and Lackey up and down..

Montgomery Butler are question marks as far as what to expect rest of year..

Don't know when or how Hendricks going to return..

So, there not alot of hope or confidence in this rotation to give 3+ wins every time through..




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[Spunky Porkstacker]

Omelette wagon..no
But it was frustrating to watch and the difference with last year spin was they had played 2 months of great baseball , so it was just of matter of when not if theyll get it going again last june/july..

It's not impossible to see players get hot as we've already seen certain players go through a hot streak..
But then they've fallen back into their funk..

We're at the end of June already and their best regular is hitting .262 (Rizzo)..
All talented hitters but too much up and down with them this year to feel
100% confidence that they'll just all start connecting for a long stretch..

Then you got the rotation....

Lester been good..
Arrieta and Lackey up and down..

Montgomery Butler are question marks as far as what to expect rest of year..

Don't know when or how Hendricks going to return..

So, there not alot of hope or confidence in this rotation to give 3+ wins every time through..




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I don't disagree with your reservations but the fat lady hasn't sung yet like you come across as she has. Injuries, trades, teams getting hot or collapsing, a lot can happen, that's why they play the games.

 

[chibears55]

Here a 15 game break down for the Cubs throughout the season so far..
We seeing a pattern ?
Mediocre .500 baseball

8-7
8-7
8-7
7-8
6-7 37-36


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[chibears55]

I don't disagree with your reservations but the fat lady hasn't sung yet like you come across as she has. Injuries, trades, teams getting hot or collapsing, a lot can happen, that's why they play the games.

Not quite looking for the fat lady yet..

There alot of hitting talent on this team to think those guys can't ignite for a long stretch , which I'm hoping for sooner rather then later..

The rotation , I have little confidence in and I'm hoping Epstein/ Hoyer has a deal or two that will help there..


Though my confidence is low with this team as is....

I'm still holding on to hope that there will be a "That Game" is when they turned it around and started playing winning Cubs baseball again, like we've seen the last 2 seasons..

So far every time I think such game or series happened, they've gone back to mediocreville...

Just been frustrating to watch so far this year..

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[chibears55]

Wade Davis is probably the best or one of the best Closer in baseball this year but don't get the recognition because of the few save opportunities he gets...
15 of 15 after today I believe..

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[Briggs is GOAT]

good win today.

 

[CSF77]

Not quite looking for the fat lady yet..

There alot of hitting talent on this team to think those guys can't ignite for a long stretch , which I'm hoping for sooner rather then later..

The rotation , I have little confidence in and I'm hoping Epstein/ Hoyer has a deal or two that will help there..


Though my confidence is low with this team as is....

I'm still holding on to hope that there will be a "That Game" is when they turned it around and started playing winning Cubs baseball again, like we've seen the last 2 seasons..

So far every time I think such game or series happened, they've gone back to mediocreville...

Just been frustrating to watch so far this year..

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As long as Lackey is one of the starting 4 in a play offs this team is going to be short lived.

Last year Lackey had the same good/bad string. But he failed to win a game when it mattered. He is a 5 right now. Nothing more.

Arrieta was #3 in run support in the majors last year. His win total was juiced. His last game he shaved his head because he was sweating too much and affected his grip. We I want to see a string of solid starts from him.

Montgomery honestly is pretty damn good right now. I want to see more at this point. Butler seen enough. Can't wait for Hendricks.

Here is the issue: Lackey has been good enough. That is the main problem. If he was done and getting wrecked every game then Theo would have had his hand forced. That is one of the 4 rotation guys that will not be a part of it. Montgomery would default to the pen again. But Lackey would have to be replaced. Now with him putting out a strong game right at crunch time may change their minds and target a BP lefty. Now there are a few excellent choices hitting the market so it is not a bad plan at all. Still it keeps the rotation unstable.

 

[Ari Bear]

:cubswin::clap::buttrock::cubs:

 

[TL1961]

Agreed- that was a nice win today.

Let's have a dozen more like that right now.

Well played game.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

The thing I worried about most last year was pitching...could they hold up. They did, barely. From my seat I watch this team for the big picture/dynasty, is it, will it be?

I like the position players, some tweaks needed, but obviously building a stronger pitching staff is the challenge and the big question going forward...can Theo do it.

 

[CSF77]

The thing I worried about most last year was pitching...could they hold up. They did, barely. From my seat I watch this team for the big picture/dynasty, is it, will it be?

I like the position players, some tweaks needed, but obviously building a stronger pitching staff is the challenge and the big question going forward...can Theo do it.

I doubt they will this year. I just don't see them dealing Eloy. I do see them trying to target Brad Hand. Justin Wilson is another. 12.8 SO/9 becomes a high leverage MR option which factors more than a TOR in a series.

So say they do target Wilson and decide to bolster the MR. Then when the play offs happen Montgomery also adds to the depth. That let's Joe have the flexibility to yank a starter early before the O adapts. Cleveland had huge success along with KC recently.

Then next year they can go into the off season as rotation buyers via F/A.

 

[beckdawg]

Re: cubs getting hot

It's pointless to count them out. We've seen they can hang 11 runs on just about anyone when playing well. Whether they get that consistently is up for debate but I'll take a team that is inconsistent over one without much talent and who plays consistent to their talent level. The fact of the matter is with the way this division is shaping up it isn't going to take much of a hot streak for the cubs to win. Let's say they have 1 stretch where they went 15 of 20 or something and are .500 the rest of the way. They probably win this division easily. MIL is a half game up and pretty unlikely to be big time buyers at the trade deadline given their future is 2-3 years from now.

After that as I've been saying for awhile the playoffs are an entirely different game. Assuming they deal for another starter they should in theory have a good set up for the playoffs. Lester's always going to be fairly consistently good. Arrieta looks better this year than he did last year save for the HR issues. Someone like Archer or Gray would slot in well obviously. And I think Hendricks can return and be solid. This team isn't last year's team that had to have starters get you 6 good innings. In the playoffs Montgomery is likely back in the pen and Uehara Davis and Edwards have been very solid. Rondon and Strop aren't exactly what they were last year but for middle inning relievers they have good stuff. Duensing has also replaced Wood's role fairly well.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

In the last couple of weeks the starts are quality starts more often than not and the offense in the last 14 days is .271/.341/.510 and steadily climbing.Tomorrow they go for their third series win in a row. They're getting better not worse and that's in line with the talent. I'll take it for now. Definitely more optimistic than pessimistic right now.

 

[TL1961]

They will be FA buyers of pitching to stay a playoff contender over gbe nect few years.

Question is how much will they give up for pitching between now and July 31. As mediocre as it looks, maybe they ride it out and get quality in postseason Their starters are capable.

No reason to mortgage the future to shoot for just 2017, even if defending champs.

 

[CSF77]

They will be FA buyers of pitching to stay a playoff contender over gbe nect few years.

Question is how much will they give up for pitching between now and July 31. As mediocre as it looks, maybe they ride it out and get quality in postseason Their starters are capable.

No reason to mortgage the future to shoot for just 2017, even if defending champs.

That is the real question. Will they trade Eloy. To get Archer etc that is the price tag. I'm not sure that are willing after selling last year.

 

[beckdawg]

No reason to mortgage the future to shoot for just 2017, even if defending champs.

Think we need to draw a distinction here. Not every trade is "mortgaging the future." I don't really want to see the cubs go after someone like say Darvish who's a FA after the year. I would agree that seems like a high risk chance to win only in 2017. On the other hand, if you're talking about Gray/Archer/Cole/Quintana, those pitchers fill holes for multiple years. And sure they probably cost more because of that but I really think they are going to have to make a trade between now and 2018 opening day anyways. I can't realistically see them throwing money at the problem already being at the luxury tax threshold in 2017 and not having signed any of their young core.

I don't know that it will happen given Tampa is a half game back in the wild card standings but it would really make sense for both them and the cubs to build a package around Archer for Eloy. Longoria is almost 32 and they don't have any one in their farm system that you build a team around offensively. The fit for the cubs and Archer is fairly obvious.

I don't think they would give up Eloy for Gray personally. Think he costs you a couple of B tier prospects such as Candelario/Clifton. Cole is pretty interesting if pit makes him available but there's obvious issues of trading in division. Given their history of trading with the yankees it wouldn't shock me to see them deal him there. Same could be said for Quintana. That being said, both have bene underwhelming this year.

Overall though, my take is cubs probably want Archer the most but I don't think they trade him this season. Maybe in the offseason. Assuming that happens, Gray seems like the guy that just makes the most sense. Beane and Theo go way back on trades. Cubs have shown a rather large interest in pitchers with curves lately of which Gray throws a pretty good one. Gray may not lead a staff but he rather effectively would replace Lackey in that #3/4 slot. And the cubs match up well for the type of trade Beane likes which is near ready players over potential. Depending on what they do with Matt Chapman/Yonder Alonso, you could realistically have a situation where Candelario makes sense for them. Either Chapman or Candelario could realistically DH for them. Clifton could realistically be up by midseason next year. Zagunis and Jacob Hannemann are basically ready now. Those 4 for Gray would be a pretty solid offer in my opinion. You could move around some of the names with guys like Chesny Young but Candelario and Clifton + 2-3 lessor names seems realistic in my eyes.