IST: Cubs @ Mets

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
Players age at diffrent rates. I do recall that also. But you notice that Joe has made him part time in his mixing. You can expect a full time spot in the play offs though.

Age is a factor with Zo but it is more of a managed issue where he gets time off for recovery vs playing every day.
Be interesting to see where Maddon goes in the playoff..

If he does go more with Zobrist
Who sits?

Does he sacrifice defense by sitting Heyward

Does he sit Schwarber

Does Almora sit and Heyward plays center


I think whatever decision he makes in that outfield with those 4 will be tough ones

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,659
Liked Posts:
2,843
Location:
San Diego
Almora is at 168 PA with a 126 wRC+. I don’t see how you bench that.
 

anotheridiot

Well-known member
Joined:
Jul 15, 2016
Posts:
5,935
Liked Posts:
791
Almora is at 168 PA with a 126 wRC+. I don’t see how you bench that.

I dont know how you bench the defense. The rest is just bonus. They said something about him hitting .421 in may?

Just dont know why they dont get a legit ace for Happ or Schwarber if they are just going to be part timers
 

fatbeard

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2013
Posts:
13,193
Liked Posts:
11,018
I dont know how you bench the defense. The rest is just bonus. They said something about him hitting .421 in may?

Just dont know why they dont get a legit ace for Happ or Schwarber if they are just going to be part timers

Maybe because a legit ace costs much more than just Happ or Schwarber?
 

fatbeard

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2013
Posts:
13,193
Liked Posts:
11,018
Almora is at 168 PA with a 126 wRC+. I don’t see how you bench that.

That .381 BABIP is not going to last forever. Expectations need to be tempered a bit.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,750
Liked Posts:
3,741
I dont know how you bench the defense. The rest is just bonus. They said something about him hitting .421 in may?

Just dont know why they dont get a legit ace for Happ or Schwarber if they are just going to be part timers

.338/.390/.459 in may fwiw.

As for Schwarber, why the heck would you trade him? I mean sure he hasn't figured out LHP in the majors yet and he's only hitting .258 but look at his OBP and power numbers. He has the 7th highest walk rate in baseball and if he starts hitting for better average that's only going to improve as people will pitch around him more. His .271 ISO is 12th best in baseball. As an aside, compare Harper and Schwarber. Harper is hitting .235/.378/.541 with a 18.9 %/20.1 % bb/k rate a .211 ISO and a 139 wRC+. Schwarber is at .258/.380/.529 16.6 %/24.1 % with a .271 ISO and a 141 wRC+. And you can't even really use Schwarber's defense against him anymore. He's +5 DRS on the year and 21.0 UZR/150. Admittedly Harper is going to get better and Schwarber isn't *that* good defensively though he does have a cannon of an arm. But if all he is as a defender is average in LF with a 141 wRC+ he's probably a fringe MVP candidate.

Last year in LF Marcell Ozuna was 2.7 UZR/150, +11 DRS and hit .312/.376/.548 for a 142 wRC+. He ended up 15th in NL MVP voting last year.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,601
Liked Posts:
6,984
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
I dont know how you bench the defense. The rest is just bonus. They said something about him hitting .421 in may?

Just dont know why they dont get a legit ace for Happ or Schwarber if they are just going to be part timers

Did you just start watching this team recently or something? Everyone but Bryant, Rizzo and to a lesser extent Contreras are part timers. That's the way this team is constructed and that's how it's managed....everyone as a role. Everyone plays and most everyone contributes. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE The days of having the same 8 guys out there playing every game till they either get hurt or pass out are gone. It's fucking amazing how many people still can't see this.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,659
Liked Posts:
2,843
Location:
San Diego
That .381 BABIP is not going to last forever. Expectations need to be tempered a bit.

Not been unheard of but he is a heavy contact rate hitter so he is a slave to that more so than others.

Him and Baez are very similar hitters except Almora is more disciplined
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,659
Liked Posts:
2,843
Location:
San Diego
Did you just start watching this team recently or something? Everyone but Bryant, Rizzo and to a lesser extent Contreras are part timers. That's the way this team is constructed and that's how it's managed....everyone as a role. Everyone plays and most everyone contributes. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE The days of having the same 8 guys out there playing every game till they either get hurt or pass out are gone. It's fucking amazing how many people still can't see this.

That is true in the he season but in the play offs Joe will change his beat.

Going by history he will push D first.

Current team Happ and Zobrist sits but then you factor lead off and Zo has to play which pushes Zo into a 2B/LF platoon which is the most likely solution.

But in season Bryant and Rizzo may miss 7 games each and then Contreras, Russell, Heyward and Baez play 80% depending on injury factor.

Now Almora should be in that box this year but I think who they want is Happ but they are being forced into Almora. More to do with a long term lead off vs anything else.
 

Omeletpants

Save America
Donator
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
27,619
Liked Posts:
12,616
My favorite teams
  1. Colorado Rockies
  1. Atlanta United FC
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  2. Orlando Magic
  3. Phoenix Suns
  4. Sacramento Kings
  1. Columbus Blue Jackets
Did you just start watching this team recently or something? Everyone but Bryant, Rizzo and to a lesser extent Contreras are part timers. That's the way this team is constructed and that's how it's managed....everyone as a role. Everyone plays and most everyone contributes. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE The days of having the same 8 guys out there playing every game till they either get hurt or pass out are gone. It's fucking amazing how many people still can't see this.
Not many of you were fans in the late 60s, but one of the reasons for the collapse in 1969 was Durocher's insistence the starter play almost ever game. Billy Williams played 163 games, Santo 160 and Kessinger 158. On the pitching side it was even crazier: Jenkins had 23 complete games and Hands had 18. Wimps now cant get past the 5th inning. Durocher nearly killed these guys
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,601
Liked Posts:
6,984
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Not many of you were fans in the late 60s, but one of the reasons for the collapse in 1969 was Durocher's insistence the starter play almost ever game. Billy Williams played 163 games, Santo 160 and Kessinger 158. On the pitching side it was even crazier: Jenkins had 23 complete games and Hands had 18. Wimps now cant get past the 5th inning. Durocher nearly killed these guys

They weren't the only ones either....I think they had close to 60 complete games as a team that year. That total might have been bigger than the total CG's in all of MLB last year, if not I'll bet it's close. It was a different game back then, very little specialization.
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
Did you just start watching this team recently or something? Everyone but Bryant, Rizzo and to a lesser extent Contreras are part timers. That's the way this team is constructed and that's how it's managed....everyone as a role. Everyone plays and most everyone contributes. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE The days of having the same 8 guys out there playing every game till they either get hurt or pass out are gone. It's fucking amazing how many people still can't see this.
Not sure if you're just talking about the cubs with Maddon or baseball in general but ...

Baseball in general I have to disagree because there are successful teams that play a pretty much consistant lineup everyday....

As far as the cubs goes, it not as bad as it seems, because we see pretty much a different lineup up most everyday....
But
Outside of the Almora / Happ and Zobrist/Heyward he goes with the other regulars regularly

My only gripe is with Almora as i feel he earned more playing time
But
Yea I guess we just need to accept it as long as their still in striking distance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,659
Liked Posts:
2,843
Location:
San Diego
Not sure if you're just talking about the cubs with Maddon or baseball in general but ...

Baseball in general I have to disagree because there are successful teams that play a pretty much consistant lineup everyday....

As far as the cubs goes, it not as bad as it seems, because we see pretty much a different lineup up most everyday....
But
Outside of the Almora / Happ and Zobrist/Heyward he goes with the other regulars regularly

My only gripe is with Almora as i feel he earned more playing time
But
Yea I guess we just need to accept it as long as their still in striking distance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

There is also a long list of DL cases each year. If you error it is on caution.

Missing a day is completely diffrent than missing 10.

Now on Almora: he should be starting. Nothing can be argued against it right now. And to be honest I think he has been around 80% sense his emergence.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,659
Liked Posts:
2,843
Location:
San Diego
Guessing today’s game will end up a give away game.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,750
Liked Posts:
3,741
Now on Almora: he should be starting. Nothing can be argued against it right now. And to be honest I think he has been around 80% sense his emergence.

Think people are missing the point. Almora doesn't sit because Maddon doesn't think he's good enough. He sits so that he will be fresh in October. I mean I don't hear the same sort of drum banging for La Stella who has a 132 wRC+ to Almora's 126. You can make a case for everyone on the positional roster to start games save for Gimenez who's clearly just a back up catcher. But like I said La Stella could start for a number of teams and be a pretty decent 2B.

The reason Maddon does this is because historically the thinking was that you win as much as you can and then coast. However, what we've seen in the playoffs is it tends to be a bit of a crap shoot. One possible explanation for this is that the best teams coast for the last month of the season while the teams fighting for the wild card have to play their best baseball night in and night out or they are home in October. Maddon has just changed the dynamic a bit. Rather than resting guys a bunch in September he more periodically does it throughout the season and then puts the pedal to the floor late in the season.

There's idealogical points to be made on that debate so I'll leave it to another time. But that's the reason he does this. It's also the reason unlike other managers that he runs an 8 man bullpen. These 2 aspects are glove in hand. Fewer positional players means that its easier to give 12 guys 400-500 PAs and more BP arms reduces wear on the BP as a whole. Now there's obviously the risk of them not playing well by doing this but look at the results broken down by half. The past 3 years they are 143-120(.543) in the first half and 149-73(.671) in the second. Generally speaking if you're better than .500 in the first half and can consistently win 65% of your second half games you're going to the playoffs. And the thing is you can always adjust if you start very poorly.

But frankly, I prefer this approach to riding guys every day. Baseball players are stubborn and will try to play through nagging stuff and will often hurt themselves more later on just because they want to be tough guys. If you think about the cubs since Maddon took over you'll notice they've been a fairly healthy team.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,601
Liked Posts:
6,984
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Not sure if you're just talking about the cubs with Maddon or baseball in general but ...

Baseball in general I have to disagree because there are successful teams that play a pretty much consistant lineup everyday....

As far as the cubs goes, it not as bad as it seems, because we see pretty much a different lineup up most everyday....
But
Outside of the Almora / Happ and Zobrist/Heyward he goes with the other regulars regularly

My only gripe is with Almora as i feel he earned more playing time
But
Yea I guess we just need to accept it as long as their still in striking distance

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

I was referring to the Cubs because of their depth but other than Milwaukee, I can't think of any team that pencils in 8 guys like back in the day. Even the Brewers change it up when they can as Counsel is a righty/lefty match up guy and I'm certain he'd do more if he had the bench the Cubs have. Not cracking wise here, but name some teams that do this as I honestly don't follow much of the American league.
 

Top