IST: Cubs @ Tigers

chibears55

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What I think it boils down to is this. And I don't want to speak for chibears but I think he probably feels the same. If the Cubs end up pissing the division away, my wife, kids, and puppy all know to leave the house for 1-2 weeks because I'm taking a bat to the TV, the kitchen, and basically anything I see in the nearby vicinity. I feel with you, if the Cubs don't win the division, you'll just sort of shrug your shoulders and say "well what can ya do?"

No bat for me...

Look, as i kept saying, i wasn't saying their gonna choke it away..

Again, All i was basically saying is despite their record , despite the crazy stats and odds, etc..
My eyes see/saw a team threading water over the last 30+games with SP struggles and up and down offense..

That they need to right the ship because other teams are closing in...
That it

Beck and i are on the same page as fas as we both dont think the cubs will fall but we both think the possibility is there..
Difference is, he using a long version to say why the wont..
Im using a very short version of how they can..







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beckdawg

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Beck, I think we all get where you're coming from. I understand your reasoning and logic. But you also tend to dismiss posts that mention concerns about the Cubs. So while you never said it was impossible for the Cards to win the division, you essentially did tell me the chances were so small that it isn't even worth worrying about. I disagree with that. So respectfully, yes you will have to eat some crow if the worst happens.

What I think it boils down to is this. And I don't want to speak for chibears but I think he probably feels the same. If the Cubs end up pissing the division away, my wife, kids, and puppy all know to leave the house for 1-2 weeks because I'm taking a bat to the TV, the kitchen, and basically anything I see in the nearby vicinity. I feel with you, if the Cubs don't win the division, you'll just sort of shrug your shoulders and say "well what can ya do?"

I dismiss the concerns because people have been making the same comments since what april? And in all that time it hasn't mattered. They are still the best team in the national league. My issue is why is the assumption always the cubs will fail? I don't get that out of the cubs fan base. I grew up in St. Louis. You talk to any of their fans and they are the polar opposite. Cubs fans in my experience tend to be overly negative. Cards fans assume they will win even when they shouldn't. You know as well as I do that past cubs failures have nothing to do with this current team.

I also dismiss the concerns because I don't think people frankly understand the context of what they are talking about. I spent all last week listening to how the cubs offense is terrible. Now sure there's a way to objectively state that but ask yourself this.... who on here talks that way? It's never they played bad in <x> game. The talk is "this offense is shitty." And then I bring up the fact that the cubs score 4.79 runs a game which is second only to Atlanta's 4.80 among NL teams and 6th overall. Then people brush away the point because it contrasts with their visceral in the moment reaction. Cubs also happen to be 6th in the majors in runs against per game at 4.00. Only 2 NL teams are better in the dbacks and dodgers at 3.86. And then I get to hear people complain that games aren't played on paper as though scoring more runs than you give up doesn't contribute to wins.

Some people on here don't want rational objective discussion. They want to bitch and moan when everything isn't perfect. I'm not trying to tell people how to live their lives but that isn't a healthy reaction. Life is too short to be pissed off all the time. In my opinion the question is whether or not the team did everything it could to win. If they did and come up short then that's baseball and I can live with it. Sure I'm disappointed but honestly what sense is there in getting that pissed off?

Now on the other hand take for example some comments I saw tonight from philly fans. I get them being pissed off at their team. Hamels was their guy and a lot of them wanted him back. Cubs gave up basically nothing to get him and he now looks like an ace. If that was the situation the cubs were in and the cubs failed then I'd be pissed off. But what am I really supposed to be that mad that the cubs gave $23 mil to a guy who got hurt and they are only on pace to win 94 games while also losing their best hitter for half the season? If that's the case all I can really think of is the picture of woody harrison wiping tears from his eyes with $100 bills in zombilenad because those are first world problems and I recommend people go talk to some baltimore O's fans or miami.

And to reiterate I stand by what I said. The chances of St. Louis winning the division as of august 24th are so small it's not worth worrying about. Fangraphs puts it at right now is 83.6%. That's better than 4 out of 5 times. St. Louis is at 8.5% which is like 1 out of 12. Statistically speaking those are great odds for the cubs and horrible odds for st louis. Until St. Louis creeps up to a 20% shot I have 0 concern. Do they still have some paths to possibly winning the division? Sure but you're talking about them needing to hit on unlikely margins. And that goes back to my initial comment on this which is why do cubs fans assume the worst will happen?

Last bit on this I'm going to say is yet again explaining some context to people because people are griping about a team on pace to win 94 games. Do you know how many times since 1950 the cubs have won 94 games? They did it in 1984, 2008, 2015 and 2016. So ya know, this is only one of the top 5 cubs teams in most of our life times. 94 wins is also more than the 92 they won last year and still went to the NLCS. But I'm sure that wont stop people complaining.
 

CubsFaninMN

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You know what gets me, Beck? When you point out how the Cubs are leading or in the top 5 teams in the NL in most categories, and people say "Yeah, well, the NL is shit, ain't nothing special leading the NL in anything" when the NL in general actually is playing as good or better than the AL. There are two teams being statistical anomalies -- or having historic years -- in the AL, but beyond them, the rest of the AL is really no better than the NL. (Of course, that's partially because the entire AL needs to play Boston and the Yankees, while only one NL division has to play either team this year.)

So... it's just like everything else in this society these days. A large and extremely vocal minority of about 30% of people are convinced of irrational crap, and no logical argument can crack an irrational point of view. You'd have the same luck convincing a dedicated Moon Hoax believer that we really did land on the Moon, even though the evidence that Apollo did actually land 12 men on the Moon is crushingly overwhelming... sigh...
 

Parade_Rain

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You know what gets me, Beck? When you point out how the Cubs are leading or in the top 5 teams in the NL in most categories, and people say "Yeah, well, the NL is shit, ain't nothing special leading the NL in anything" when the NL in general actually is playing as good or better than the AL. There are two teams being statistical anomalies -- or having historic years -- in the AL, but beyond them, the rest of the AL is really no better than the NL. (Of course, that's partially because the entire AL needs to play Boston and the Yankees, while only one NL division has to play either team this year.)

So... it's just like everything else in this society these days. A large and extremely vocal minority of about 30% of people are convinced of irrational crap, and no logical argument can crack an irrational point of view. You'd have the same luck convincing a dedicated Moon Hoax believer that we really did land on the Moon, even though the evidence that Apollo did actually land 12 men on the Moon is crushingly overwhelming... sigh...
I heard that the Director of the Moon Landing film was so particular about details, that he shot the film on the Moon for accuracy's sake.
 

Diehardfan

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  1. Chicago Bulls
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I dismiss the concerns because people have been making the same comments since what april? And in all that time it hasn't mattered. They are still the best team in the national league. My issue is why is the assumption always the cubs will fail? I don't get that out of the cubs fan base. I grew up in St. Louis. You talk to any of their fans and they are the polar opposite. Cubs fans in my experience tend to be overly negative. Cards fans assume they will win even when they shouldn't. You know as well as I do that past cubs failures have nothing to do with this current team.

I also dismiss the concerns because I don't think people frankly understand the context of what they are talking about. I spent all last week listening to how the cubs offense is terrible. Now sure there's a way to objectively state that but ask yourself this.... who on here talks that way? It's never they played bad in <x> game. The talk is "this offense is shitty." And then I bring up the fact that the cubs score 4.79 runs a game which is second only to Atlanta's 4.80 among NL teams and 6th overall. Then people brush away the point because it contrasts with their visceral in the moment reaction. Cubs also happen to be 6th in the majors in runs against per game at 4.00. Only 2 NL teams are better in the dbacks and dodgers at 3.86. And then I get to hear people complain that games aren't played on paper as though scoring more runs than you give up doesn't contribute to wins.

Some people on here don't want rational objective discussion. They want to bitch and moan when everything isn't perfect. I'm not trying to tell people how to live their lives but that isn't a healthy reaction. Life is too short to be pissed off all the time. In my opinion the question is whether or not the team did everything it could to win. If they did and come up short then that's baseball and I can live with it. Sure I'm disappointed but honestly what sense is there in getting that pissed off?

Now on the other hand take for example some comments I saw tonight from philly fans. I get them being pissed off at their team. Hamels was their guy and a lot of them wanted him back. Cubs gave up basically nothing to get him and he now looks like an ace. If that was the situation the cubs were in and the cubs failed then I'd be pissed off. But what am I really supposed to be that mad that the cubs gave $23 mil to a guy who got hurt and they are only on pace to win 94 games while also losing their best hitter for half the season? If that's the case all I can really think of is the picture of woody harrison wiping tears from his eyes with $100 bills in zombilenad because those are first world problems and I recommend people go talk to some baltimore O's fans or miami.

And to reiterate I stand by what I said. The chances of St. Louis winning the division as of august 24th are so small it's not worth worrying about. Fangraphs puts it at right now is 83.6%. That's better than 4 out of 5 times. St. Louis is at 8.5% which is like 1 out of 12. Statistically speaking those are great odds for the cubs and horrible odds for st louis. Until St. Louis creeps up to a 20% shot I have 0 concern. Do they still have some paths to possibly winning the division? Sure but you're talking about them needing to hit on unlikely margins. And that goes back to my initial comment on this which is why do cubs fans assume the worst will happen?

Last bit on this I'm going to say is yet again explaining some context to people because people are griping about a team on pace to win 94 games. Do you know how many times since 1950 the cubs have won 94 games? They did it in 1984, 2008, 2015 and 2016. So ya know, this is only one of the top 5 cubs teams in most of our life times. 94 wins is also more than the 92 they won last year and still went to the NLCS. But I'm sure that wont stop people complaining.

Very gentlemanly way of stating it, but everyone that's been here any length of time knows exactly who you are talking about.
 

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