IST:Cubs vs Phils

[Diehardfan]

A sure sign of a fan not knowing what he is talking about is constant reference to W-L of a pitcher, without regard to his ACTUAL performace.

Lester has had more poor starts than we would want. But he has had 13 starts of at least 7 IP with 2 or fewer ER allowed. 13 of 20. 2 more "quality starts".

They score almost nothing when he is on the mound. Yes, his catcher doesn't hit. Neither does his 2nd baseman or SS. or CF.

Again, for the umpteenth time, runs not allowed are as important as runs driven in. Lester, with Ross catching, has allowed 2 or fewer ER in 7+ innings 4 of his last 5 starts. (0 ER in 3 and 2 ER in 1) He has one win to show for that. Ross' fault they didn't score? Or proof that Ross with Lester is a good match?

Wow...thank you Mr. Baseball. What a pompous ass you are.

Bottomline....big bucks and underachieving doesn't give a player the right to name his lineup. Bad vibes being sent to young players.

 

[JZsportsfan]

Ouch

 

[Doubledown]

was at the game today, some really fun moments but with the warm weather, wind blowing out you have to score more then three runs, but give Phily credit they jumped on the Cubs BP, still have some growing pains..

 

[chibears55]

Yeah, Castro has made me lose confidence in him as well. I agree that Russell should be SS and Baez at 2B

Ehhhh..

Neither has proven anything yet on the major league level with the bat..

 

[chibears55]

Phills pulled back Cole. It gives the claiming team sole negotiation rites then. Philly wanted Russell and the Cubs balked.

All a waver wire is is a opertunity for a team to make a deal. Cubs could just let that team take on the deal. We are taking 32 mil owed but I doubt it would go that way.

Stuff like this happens all of the time and may be a way to get him out and a semi decent return. I can't see any team knocking on the door with that line going.

I understand that..

But if a team wanted Castro , why wait ? Make that offer now


Cubs may put him on waivers, and say the phillies might claim him... cubs arent going to allow the claim and will pull him back... but as i said , i doubt the phils would make any legit offer that would satisfy epstein. ..

 

[chibears55]

Ross plays on avg 1 max 2 per week. Castro every day. His impact is greater for better or worse

I do not try to defend Ross but to put it in perspective. A role player's main job is to give the regular players a day off. He is a sub. Castro is a starter. When he is struggling it impacts the team far more as he is going more AB's and those are running at a 72.8% out rate this season.

Not the same thing

Castro ?

The origional post was about lester and how him having Ross catch for him over Montero and now Schwarber probably cost him a few wins in his 8 losses and 6 ND.. because of how horrible Ross is with the bat compared to the other two.

Despite everyone else's struggle, how many times have we seen Ross come up with RISP and strike out or pop up .. castro or cogs IBB or pitched around to get to him and he doesn't come through. ..
Just saying odds are so much better of team scoring an extra run or two in a game with Montero and now Schwarber playing then Ross..
Lester not allowing himself to benefit from that and it probably cost him and team a couple of wins...

 

[chibears55]

Again, for the umpteenth time, runs not allowed are as important as runs driven in. Lester, with Ross catching, has allowed 2 or fewer ER in 7+ innings 4 of his last 5 starts. (0 ER in 3 and 2 ER in 1) He has one win to show for that. Ross' fault they didn't score? Or proof that Ross with Lester is a good match?

And with Montero catching him he went 6 no hit innings, ended up going 7 ip 2 hits 0 ER against the best team in NL ..Cardinals

It not about Ross catching Lester that makes Lester good, Lester is just good.. Montero can call just as good a game for Lester as Ross does...

No it not totally Ross fault for lack of offense in Lester starts, but he does come up with alot of opportunities with RISP and doesn't come through. odds are much better with Montero and now Schwarber coming through then Ross...

That the point... Lester costing himself and team a couple wins having Ross do nothing offensively to help team score, where Montero or Schwarber have better odds of doing something productive. ...

Lester being a very good pitcher, will continue to pitch good despite who his catcher is...

 

[CSF77]

Montero has years of experience. Lester trusted him while Ross was injured.

I think the front office is catering too much to Lester. I doubt Lester cares all that much either was.

Arrieta got catered to last time also. Hammel pitched worse and Hendricks pitched worse with Schwarber. So the decision holds merit.

I doubt that Schwarber is catching. Would be a shocker with Cole pitching. But there is a trend going on. Aces get catered to. Others get the growing pains.

 

[CSF77]

I understand that..

But if a team wanted Castro , why wait ? Make that offer now


Cubs may put him on waivers, and say the phillies might claim him... cubs arent going to allow the claim and will pull him back... but as i said , i doubt the phils would make any legit offer that would satisfy epstein. ..

They did make that offer to the Phills. Baez or Castro for Cole. They balked. I bet they want Russell to headline the deal. Not 50% SO or Castro's crap season as the headline. Phan's would burn the stadium.

Now if they picked him in wavers and the Cubs pulled back. Then the Phills offered a MLR SP and a projectable A ball pitcher. The Cubs should then pull the trigger.

 

[chibears55]

Wow.. this is how useless Ross has been ..

He has 4 RBIs .. 4 ... his last one was May 31.. the other 3 came on consecutive games in April...

102 PA 4 RBI ..

77 baserunners, 5 scored in his 102 PA .. 5%

Montero. . 172 baserunners , 22 scored in his 255 PA.. 13%

Lester cost himself an 8% chance of having a run scored in games he pitched by having Ross catch him over Montero.

Schwarber a small sample size to compare but....

38 baserunners, 8 runners scored in his 48 PA.. 22 %

 

[CSF77]

Wow.. this is how useless Ross has been ..

He has 4 RBIs .. 4 ... his last one was May 31.. the other 3 came on consecutive games in April...

102 PA 4 RBI ..

77 baserunners, 5 scored in his 102 PA .. 5%

Montero. . 172 baserunners , 22 scored in his 255 PA.. 13%

Lester cost himself an 8% chance of having a run scored in games he pitched by having Ross catch him over Montero.

Schwarber a small sample size to compare but....

38 baserunners, 8 runners scored in his 48 PA.. 22 %

It is not all about the O. Look at his ERA. it has been very good over that span.

I get the Montero argument but increasing his ERA to generate a few runs is counter productive.

 

[CSF77]

There are 7 other bats in the line up other than Ross. You can't just cherry pick 1 guy like that.

I've been down on Castro and Fowler for the most part. Rizzo and Bryant are in a lull now while Soler and Cog are on fire. Typical to happen in a season.

But looking over the body of work. This line up depends on it's vets to provide stability to a young line up. 2 of the vets are having career worst seasons at the same time.

That has impacted the team

 

[chibears55]

It is not all about the O. Look at his ERA. it has been very good over that span.

I get the Montero argument but increasing his ERA to generate a few runs is counter productive.

Come on.. You seriously think Ross catching makes that much of a difference in Lester ability to pitch ?

He went 7 ip 2 hits and 0 ER in his game with Montero

Ross doesn't make Lester a better pitcher, Lester is a good pitcher..


It is about the O, when your losing 2 to 0 or 3 to 1

I would hope lester would prefer to win a game 5 to 3
then lose one 2 to 1...

 

[CSF77]

Come on.. You seriously think Ross catching makes that much of a difference in Lester ability to pitch ?

He went 7 ip 2 hits and 0 ER in his game with Montero

Ross doesn't make Lester a better pitcher, Lester is a good pitcher..


It is about the O, when your losing 2 to 0 or 3 to 1

I would hope lester would prefer to win a game 5 to 3
then lose one 2 to 1...

Do you really think that a catcher has no factor on a pitcher? pretty naive to think that.

 

[chibears55]

There are 7 other bats in the line up other than Ross. You can't just cherry pick 1 guy like that.

I've been down on Castro and Fowler for the most part. Rizzo and Bryant are in a lull now while Soler and Cog are on fire. Typical to happen in a season.

But looking over the body of work. This line up depends on it's vets to provide stability to a young line up. 2 of the vets are having career worst seasons at the same time.

That has impacted the team

Again, i agree the lineup as a whole is struggling, which is why as a pitcher i would want to increase my chances of my team scoring runs with the better hitting catcher...
Especially when there an 8 % difference in the 2 Catchers ability to drive in runs..


When these guys are getting on base in front of Ross he not driving them in... that the point

4 RBI for the year... i think Schwarber got that in his first game..lol

 

[chibears55]

Do you really think that a catcher has no factor on a pitcher? pretty naive to think that.

Were talking Montero and Ross. .

Do you really think Montero wouldn't of been able to call a good game for lester ?

Pretty naive to think that..


Oh wait he did.. 7 ip 2 hits 0 ER

 

[CSF77]

Just at a quick glance: Hammel: 3 BB 4 SO his game with Schwarber. he had 19 BB up to that point. Now it was his first game but that is not normal for him as he has had a strong SO:BB ratio of 5.53:1 up to that point. That is a red flag to me. But like I said it could just be Hammel was not on also.

Hendricks:
June 30: 6 IP 3 hits 0 ER 1 BB 6 SO
July 5: 7.1 IP 5 hits, 0 ER 1 BB 6 SO
July 10 7 IP 5 hits, 0 ER, 0 BB 4 SO
July 17 5.2 IP 4 hits, 1 ER 2 runs, 1 BB 5 SO
July 22 6 IP, 7 hits, 5 ER 2 BB 9 SO.

So his one game with Schwarber he gets blown up. Now his SO's spiked but he was getting smacked around way more.

And a catcher has no factor....wow

 

[CSF77]

Were talking Montero and Ross. .

Do you really think Montero wouldn't of been able to call a good game for lester ?

Pretty naive to think that..


Oh wait he did.. 7 ip 2 hits 0 ER

and I did post that your argument was valid with Montero. Not with Schwarber. Too much proof out there to think he is not factoring into lower performance values in the staff

 

[CSF77]

I get where Maddon is coming from. No need to deflate a kid by tossing facts at him. He is like a dad to these kids and props them up. He was brought in due to his ability to work with kids. So there are some growing pains going on. But the facts do remain the same. The staff has performed worse with Schwarber catching and all of Maddon's gloss over doesn't change it. Until we see the staff falling back to their normal production levels with Schwarber back there he will be suspect as a catcher.

 

[chibears55]

Just at a quick glance: Hammel: 3 BB 4 SO his game with Schwarber. he had 19 BB up to that point. Now it was his first game but that is not normal for him as he has had a strong SO:BB ratio of 5.53:1 up to that point. That is a red flag to me. But like I said it could just be Hammel was not on also.

Hendricks:
June 30: 6 IP 3 hits 0 ER 1 BB 6 SO
July 5: 7.1 IP 5 hits, 0 ER 1 BB 6 SO
July 10 7 IP 5 hits, 0 ER, 0 BB 4 SO
July 17 5.2 IP 4 hits, 1 ER 2 runs, 1 BB 5 SO
July 22 6 IP, 7 hits, 5 ER 2 BB 9 SO.

So his one game with Schwarber he gets blown up. Now his SO's spiked but he was getting smacked around way more.

And a catcher has no factor....wow

I didn't say a catcher had no factor but in fairness
Your using Schwarber who an inexperience rookie
compared to a veteran, top of his game catcher in montero.


A mountain of difference between the two..

Lester not going to lose much if anything having montero catch him over ross.. he will gain a ton offensively though...