IST: Cubs vs Reds(@choad35)

[anotheridiot]

Reds now 7-3 against the cubs.

 

[CSF77]

Reds now 7-3 against the cubs.

I was more pleased with Kyle's performance. He held his own vs their ace. The damage happened after he came out. But you knew going in runs were going to be hard to get.

Basically going from a high 80's over the top to a high 80's side arm slot was not a great decision. Sure Cishek is the main 7th inning guy now but going to a higher velocity arm would have made more sense right after Hendricks. Their bats are all ready slowed down to slider speed and bringing in a 95+ mph arm like Chatwood or Strop would have made more sense.

 

[DB012031]

I was more pleased with Kyle's performance. He held his own vs their ace. The damage happened after he came out. But you knew going in runs were going to be hard to get.

Basically going from a high 80's over the top to a high 80's side arm slot was not a great decision. Sure Cishek is the main 7th inning guy now but going to a higher velocity arm would have made more sense right after Hendricks. Their bats are all ready slowed down to slider speed and bringing in a 95+ mph arm like Chatwood or Strop would have made more sense.

This goes back to what I have said since Maddon came to Chicago, he is one of the worst in game managers in baseball and frankly, I think the team has tuned him out. There is a reason that his success has usually been tied to the age of the team: He does great with very young teams but not so well with veteran teams and at this point we are a veteran team.

• Russell should never play except to give a day off to Baez and 2nd Base
  • In that manner, I want Garcia to start at 2nd for the remainder of the year. We already know what we have in Bote and Russell, give the kid a chance, cannot be worse than what we have now
• If KB sees the outfield 1 more time this season, Theo should come down from the box and Lane Kiffin Maddon right then and there. He is a gosh darn 3rd baseman...End of discussion
• The outfield should be Swarbs, AA and Heyward day in and out. Stop tinkering with CF and RF and live with the lumps. Heyward has had a remarkable turnaround this year and AA needs consistent at-bats We need to know as an organization, is this kid the future or not.
• Absolutely agree, you never follow up a starter immediately with the same kind of pitcher....When Hendricks was done, should have gone with Strop or Chatwood. The change in velocity takes time to adjust to.
• When VC plays he should NEVER fing bat 5th....He is not a run producer right now and is slumping badly. Heyward should have been hitting 5th last night. The Lefty/Righty line up is the biggest load of bullshit in baseball.

 

[SilenceS]

This goes back to what I have said since Maddon came to Chicago, he is one of the worst in game managers in baseball and frankly, I think the team has tuned him out. There is a reason that his success has usually been tied to the age of the team: He does great with very young teams but not so well with veteran teams and at this point we are a veteran team.

• Russell should never play except to give a day off to Baez and 2nd Base
  • In that manner, I want Garcia to start at 2nd for the remainder of the year. We already know what we have in Bote and Russell, give the kid a chance, cannot be worse than what we have now
• If KB sees the outfield 1 more time this season, Theo should come down from the box and Lane Kiffin Maddon right then and there. He is a gosh darn 3rd baseman...End of discussion
• The outfield should be Swarbs, AA and Heyward day in and out. Stop tinkering with CF and RF and live with the lumps. Heyward has had a remarkable turnaround this year and AA needs consistent at-bats We need to know as an organization, is this kid the future or not.
• Absolutely agree, you never follow up a starter immediately with the same kind of pitcher....When Hendricks was done, should have gone with Strop or Chatwood. The change in velocity takes time to adjust to.
• When VC plays he should NEVER fing bat 5th....He is not a run producer right now and is slumping badly. Heyward should have been hitting 5th last night. The Lefty/Righty line up is the biggest load of bullshit in baseball.

Tbh, this is a horrendous post.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

What did @choyne do to get banned?

???

 

[HeHateMe]

What did @choyne do to get banned?

???

He must have really choyned it up and gotten most of his choyning deleted...

 

[DB012031]

Tbh, this is a horrendous post.

Please elaborate. We can have different opinions, that is fine, but if you think is bad, then explain. I mean, lets look at the facts:

• Russell has been god awful, pretty much since the World Series, and our record is significantly better when he does NOT play this year. At this point, he is what he is, might as well let Garcia play and see what he has.
• KB has no business in the outfield, he is an All Star 3rd basemen, keep him at his position. Heyward is a GG right fielder, no reason what-so-ever to play KB in the outfield ever
• Almora in Center is better than Russell at 2nd, plus he doesn't make the same stupid mistakes like getting doubled up at 2nd base (last night) or throwing to home instead of first (Pirate series before the break)
• VC is has no business batting 5th, and again reiterate that Heyward should be batting 5th if Wilson is going to sit.
• You put out another soft-tossing righty after already running out a soft-tossing righty for 6 innings. Go Strop in the 7th and then SC in the 8th, Kimbrel in the 9th for a different look, forces the hitters to change their timing and eye line. That's a pretty standard and basic approach.

 

[SilenceS]

Please elaborate. We can have different opinions, that is fine, but if you think is bad, then explain. I mean, lets look at the facts:

• Russell has been god awful, pretty much since the World Series, and our record is significantly better when he does NOT play this year. At this point, he is what he is, might as well let Garcia play and see what he has.
• KB has no business in the outfield, he is an All Star 3rd basemen, keep him at his position. Heyward is a GG right fielder, no reason what-so-ever to play KB in the outfield ever
• Almora in Center is better than Russell at 2nd, plus he doesn't make the same stupid mistakes like getting doubled up at 2nd base (last night) or throwing to home instead of first (Pirate series before the break)
• VC is has no business batting 5th, and again reiterate that Heyward should be batting 5th if Wilson is going to sit.
• You put out another soft-tossing righty after already running out a soft-tossing righty for 6 innings. Go Strop in the 7th and then SC in the 8th, Kimbrel in the 9th for a different look, forces the hitters to change their timing and eye line. That's a pretty standard and basic approach.

Everyone who has played second has been God awful. The record with Russell is a coincidence not a fact. I would like Russell not to be on this team, but the fact remains, until Zobrist comes back or we trade for something. Its going to be a platoon because no one can take the position. Garcia is strictly matchups. He had over a 30% K rate in AAA. The doesnt get better when you hit the majors. He also is not a good defensive player. He is just a shiny new toy like when fans clamor for a back up QB that they glorify as being better than he is at the sport.

David Bote is a better defender than KB at third. Maddon went with his best defensive team besides Almora.

Almora and Russell is a push. You are trying to justify a shit sandwich to a douche. Both have plus D and both have shitty O

VC has had a really good year hitting. This is a completely after the fact reaction that he didnt come through in a couple of big moments.

Strop is our 8th inning guy. For as much as people rip on Joe for tinkering with the lineups, he stays true to his bullpen because it helps them in routines. It doesnt matter if its Strop Kimbrel or Cishek in the 7th inning if you two of your best defenders on the team boot two double play ground balls and your GG first baseman misses a pop up in foul territory. Chances are you are going to give up runs.

The Cubs are 5 out of their last 7. Last night was a tough one because they did it to themselves. It wasnt on Joe or God or the Mind Flayer. The team has won consistently behind great defense. They have to play it and this year they have lapses. Baseball is a funny sport

 

[Diehardfan]

Everyone who has played second has been God awful. The record with Russell is a coincidence not a fact. I would like Russell not to be on this team, but the fact remains, until Zobrist comes back or we trade for something. Its going to be a platoon because no one can take the position. Garcia is strictly matchups. He had over a 30% K rate in AAA. The doesnt get better when you hit the majors. He also is not a good defensive player. He is just a shiny new toy like when fans clamor for a back up QB that they glorify as being better than he is at the sport.

David Bote is a better defender than KB at third. Maddon went with his best defensive team besides Almora.

Almora and Russell is a push. You are trying to justify a shit sandwich to a douche. Both have plus D and both have shitty O

VC has had a really good year hitting. This is a completely after the fact reaction that he didnt come through in a couple of big moments.

Strop is our 8th inning guy. For as much as people rip on Joe for tinkering with the lineups, he stays true to his bullpen because it helps them in routines. It doesnt matter if its Strop Kimbrel or Cishek in the 7th inning if you two of your best defenders on the team boot two double play ground balls and your GG first baseman misses a pop up in foul territory. Chances are you are going to give up runs.

The Cubs are 5 out of their last 7. Last night was a tough one because they did it to themselves. It wasnt on Joe or God or the Mind Flayer. The team has won consistently behind great defense. They have to play it and this year they have lapses. Baseball is a funny sport

I highly doubt you will see any team in this division run away and hide. People are calling this a weak division. It is not. What it is, is highly competitive where any team can beat any other team on any day...while playing each other 18 times. That is a tough nut to crack. Let's take a look across town at their division or out east where the Yankees play. The White Sox while definitely improved are benefiting from the fact that they play over 1/3 of their games against the five worst teams in baseball. The Yankees are roughly the same. No one in Nat Central or the Nat West have it anywhere near close to that. The Dodgers are the team to beat.....30 games over playing competitive teams almost daily.

BTW, I agree that it's not Joe, God or the Mind Flayer.......but I wouldn't count out the Demogorgon. ?

 

[TL1961]

This goes back to what I have said since Maddon came to Chicago, he is one of the worst in game managers in baseball and frankly, I think the team has tuned him out. There is a reason that his success has usually been tied to the age of the team: He does great with very young teams but not so well with veteran teams and at this point we are a veteran team.

• Russell should never play except to give a day off to Baez and 2nd Base
  • In that manner, I want Garcia to start at 2nd for the remainder of the year. We already know what we have in Bote and Russell, give the kid a chance, cannot be worse than what we have now
• If KB sees the outfield 1 more time this season, Theo should come down from the box and Lane Kiffin Maddon right then and there. He is a gosh darn 3rd baseman...End of discussion
• The outfield should be Swarbs, AA and Heyward day in and out. Stop tinkering with CF and RF and live with the lumps. Heyward has had a remarkable turnaround this year and AA needs consistent at-bats We need to know as an organization, is this kid the future or not.
• Absolutely agree, you never follow up a starter immediately with the same kind of pitcher....When Hendricks was done, should have gone with Strop or Chatwood. The change in velocity takes time to adjust to.
• When VC plays he should NEVER fing bat 5th....He is not a run producer right now and is slumping badly. Heyward should have been hitting 5th last night. The Lefty/Righty line up is the biggest load of bullshit in baseball.

Wow.
I disagree with every point.

Russell is the best defensive 2B we have, but you want him only giving a day off to Bote (who made the error in the IF last night that lost us the game). Both are below where we want our second baseman, but Russell-Baez is by far the best D combo. Garcia deserves to see playing time and looks good offensively in a very short stint. But we have seen the league adjust to hitters before many times. Bote is the most recent, glaring example.

Bryant has played very well in LF and RF. No idea why the strong feelings that he should never be out there. Not saying I want him there always, but he has been good. Why the anger?

I wouldn’t be terribly upset seeing AA in CF a lot, but he is killing us offensively and mixing it up is not a bad thing. I am not thrilled with the idea of sacrificing now to see if he is the future. Our future is now.

The “don’t follow a pitcher with the same type of pitcher” stuff is cliche, and illogical. If Hendricks did well for 6 innings, why not continue with the style that did well? The issue is the quality and effectiveness of the relievers more than “style”.

Using that logic, if an opponent can’t catch up to a starter’s heat, you’d follow him with a soft tosser to “mix it up”. Translation: “give the opponent a better chance”.

The lefty righty forces the opposing manager to make decisions/ changes in the pen later in the game, rather than allow him to plug in one effective guy and shut you down.

Not to mention that you make it a point to not only call Maddon a terrible manager, but point out you have been sure of it from the minute he got here: prior to the 97 win WC season, the WS championship, the subsequent NLCS appearance.....

No wonder you posted “under cover”.

 

[anotheridiot]

Maldonado will catch Mills tonight, per Maddon on the lunch time show on the score.

 

[anotheridiot]

If you play Garcia, you need to take him out in a close game for defensive purposes. But people think he can be thrown in any position on the field.

 

[DB012031]

Wow.
I disagree with every point.

Russell is the best defensive 2B we have, but you want him only giving a day off to Bote (who made the error in the IF last night that lost us the game). Both are below where we want our second baseman, but Russell-Baez is by far the best D combo. Garcia deserves to see playing time and looks good offensively in a very short stint. But we have seen the league adjust to hitters before many times. Bote is the most recent, glaring example.

Bryant has played very well in LF and RF. No idea why the strong feelings that he should never be out there. Not saying I want him there always, but he has been good. Why the anger?

I wouldn’t be terribly upset seeing AA in CF a lot, but he is killing us offensively and mixing it up is not a bad thing. I am not thrilled with the idea of sacrificing now to see if he is the future. Our future is now.

The “don’t follow a pitcher with the same type of pitcher” stuff is cliche, and illogical. If Hendricks did well for 6 innings, why not continue with the style that did well? The issue is the quality and effectiveness of the relievers more than “style”.

Using that logic, if an opponent can’t catch up to a starter’s heat, you’d follow him with a soft tosser to “mix it up”. Translation: “give the opponent a better chance”.

The lefty righty forces the opposing manager to make decisions/ changes in the pen later in the game, rather than allow him to plug in one effective guy and shut you down.

Not to mention that you make it a point to not only call Maddon a terrible manager, but point out you have been sure of it from the minute he got here: prior to the 97 win WC season, the WS championship, the subsequent NLCS appearance.....

No wonder you posted “under cover”.

Perhaps dumb question, but not sure what you mean by posted "under cover". Is that a setting I accidently tripped or something?

I didn't call Maddon a terrible manager, I said he is a terrible in-game manager, there is a difference. Yea, the world series was life changing for all of us but don't gloss over the fact he damn near blew it with the terrible decision of pitching chapman in game 6 (8th inning) with a 7 run lead and then having NO ONE ready in the 9th so he had to come back out. That almost cost them the series and that would have been on Joe..Chapman was running on fumes in game 7.

Its also easy to cherry pick Joe's success, but lets not gloss over that Joe walked into a much better roster than Quade, Sveum and Renteria ever had. We didn't have a fraction of the talent we have now with the previous 3 managers (not saying they were good managers or bad, but when you have a lot of roster talent, it covers things up)

Aren't you contradicting yourself then on Russell/AA? You say AA is killing us at the plate but Russell isn't any better at the plate, he peaked in 2016 (Power numbers looked good HR and RBI, but Ave, OBP, Slugging, all were terrible). My point is that, and its my opinion so we are allowed to have them, his defense doesn't make up for how bad he is at the plate. Whatever magic he had in 2016 is gone....I didn't say have him spell Bote, to me Bote is nothing more than a career utility journeymen, but being that the league hasn't figured our Garcia yet, roll with him until it happens.

 

[CSF77]

I wouldn’t be terribly upset seeing AA in CF a lot, but he is killing us offensively and mixing it up is not a bad thing. I am not thrilled with the idea of sacrificing now to see if he is the future. Our future is now.

I really like this statement. About time someone had common sense around here.

Russell is the best defensive 2B we have, but you want him only giving a day off to Bote (who made the error in the IF last night that lost us the game). Both are below where we want our second baseman, but Russell-Baez is by far the best D combo. Garcia deserves to see playing time and looks good offensively in a very short stint. But we have seen the league adjust to hitters before many times. Bote is the most recent, glaring example

Bote is a good 3B option for a limited resources org. That is looking for value to the dollar.

Russell is in the same boat. As a player he is not horrible. Takes walks and can hit maybe 12 HR's. D is solid. He has value for sure.

Garcia strikes out too much to be a strait PH. You really want a contact bat like Almora in that situation where you really need a SF or to put the ball at a certain zone. A strike out is a wasted opertunity for 1 PA. But he has plus power which pays off more as a full time player. I see Garcia as a quality trade chip vs a keeper. His D is leaky and it is going to take work and a position change to correct it. Which takes time and a team looking at a longer window of opertunity.


But over all great take.

 

[CSF77]

Its also easy to cherry pick Joe's success, but lets not gloss over that Joe walked into a much better roster than Quade, Sveum and Renteria ever had. We didn't have a fraction of the talent we have now with the previous 3 managers (not saying they were good managers or bad, but when you have a lot of roster talent, it covers things up)

None of those managers would have done anything close. With out Joe you wouldn't have players wanting to come in. Lester and Yu most likely never show. Heyward nope. Having a bargain bin manager makes a statement about your whole organization.

The Cubs could never be taken seriously with any of the above.

It was Lou

Then a firesale with interm managers to watch the shop.

The Joe when they were ready to compete.

To add to it the Cubs have been pushing a winning record ever sense he took over. Injuries and individual underperforming players. The Cubs had no business even winning 90 games last year with the Trainwreck on the field but somehow they are in a 1 game play off. And we as fans have become so fucking spoiled with Joe in charge we all bitch about how he is inadequate.

And now we have another just shitting on the only reason why the Cubs are not the joke of baseball...

Maybe you want to go back to the old piss smelling days and parts of the building collapsing. 100 loss teams ring a bell?

 

[TL1961]

Perhaps dumb question, but not sure what you mean by posted "under cover". Is that a setting I accidently tripped or something?

I didn't call Maddon a terrible manager, I said he is a terrible in-game manager, there is a difference. Yea, the world series was life changing for all of us but don't gloss over the fact he damn near blew it with the terrible decision of pitching chapman in game 6 (8th inning) with a 7 run lead and then having NO ONE ready in the 9th so he had to come back out. That almost cost them the series and that would have been on Joe..Chapman was running on fumes in game 7.

Its also easy to cherry pick Joe's success, but lets not gloss over that Joe walked into a much better roster than Quade, Sveum and Renteria ever had. We didn't have a fraction of the talent we have now with the previous 3 managers (not saying they were good managers or bad, but when you have a lot of roster talent, it covers things up)

Aren't you contradicting yourself then on Russell/AA? You say AA is killing us at the plate but Russell isn't any better at the plate, he peaked in 2016 (Power numbers looked good HR and RBI, but Ave, OBP, Slugging, all were terrible). My point is that, and its my opinion so we are allowed to have them, his defense doesn't make up for how bad he is at the plate. Whatever magic he had in 2016 is gone....I didn't say have him spell Bote, to me Bote is nothing more than a career utility journeymen, but being that the league hasn't figured our Garcia yet, roll with him until it happens.

Sveum and Quade and Renteria did, in fact, have less talent. And that has absolutely nothing to do with anything we discussed.
Herman Franks and Jim Marshall did too. So what?

I made no comparison whatsoever regarding Russell and Almora. Wtf are you referring to? And you just used two names and then followed with references to “he”.!!?

I guess “he” and”his” refer to Russell. You want his D on the bench due to his lack of offense but you want AA’s D in the field in spite of a lack of offense and are questioning me? What?

I can roll with Garcia until the league stops him offensively but believe me, great D always plays. Russell is infinitely superior in that regard, so those who think he should be DFA’d due to his bat simply don’t understand how MLB works.

If Garcia’s bat continues to play well, play him. I said that. Just don’t think a ten day period offers a guarantee of success. And don’t fall for the trap most ignorant fans do, where they think every position should be manned by the better offensive option. That spells trouble.

 

[MDB111™]

My double wide dick just split your sister wide open and now im
Having to take her to cook county so no I can’t watch the game and I’m having to rely on gamecast. You was right about gamecast though

 

[MDB111™]

I let him go on for way to long with his flaming. Hope some of the good posters come back. Dude was just straight flaming the board.

Only showing up to gloat about losing?
Fuck that and fuck him man

 

[CSF77]

Sveum and Quade and Renteria did, in fact, have less talent. And that has absolutely nothing to do with anything we discussed.
Herman Franks and Jim Marshall did too. So what?

I made no comparison whatsoever regarding Russell and Almora. Wtf are you referring to? And you just used two names and then followed with references to “he”.!!?

I guess “he” and”his” refer to Russell. You want his D on the bench due to his lack of offense but you want AA’s D in the field in spite of a lack of offense and are questioning me? What?

I can roll with Garcia until the league stops him offensively but believe me, great D always plays. Russell is infinitely superior in that regard, so those who think he should be DFA’d due to his bat simply don’t understand how MLB works.

If Garcia’s bat continues to play well, play him. I said that. Just don’t think a ten day period offers a guarantee of success. And don’t fall for the trap most ignorant fans do, where they think every position should be manned by the better offensive option. That spells trouble.

It depends on the match up. If you are facing a LH pull happy team and you sucker them all day on the shift then sure you want your best hands out there.

Wind blowing out and looking at a HR derby day. Might make more sense to play to it and bring in Garcia.

 

[TL1961]

I really like this statement. About time someone had common sense around here.




Bote is a good 3B option for a limited resources org. That is looking for value to the dollar.

Russell is in the same boat. As a player he is not horrible. Takes walks and can hit maybe 12 HR's. D is solid. He has value for sure.

Garcia strikes out too much to be a strait PH. You really want a contact bat like Almora in that situation where you really need a SF or to put the ball at a certain zone. A strike out is a wasted opertunity for 1 PA. But he has plus power which pays off more as a full time player. I see Garcia as a quality trade chip vs a keeper. His D is leaky and it is going to take work and a position change to correct it. Which takes time and a team looking at a longer window of opertunity.


But over all great take.

Bote is an average fielder not hitting much. He strikes out way too often, and in a juiced ball season, shows little power. He is A 3B option in a pinch, but I wouldn’t call him a “good option”.

Garcia has only one potential position 2B. He is our worst defensive option, but where else can he go? Not SS or 3B. OF? No thanks. If he hits, and is ok at 2B (not terrible), then ok. But he has limited upside and versatility compared to others.

His power can help though if he is used as PH when not starting. I just don’t know how much to reasonably expect offensively. So far, very encouraging in very short stint.