IST: Cubs vs Rockies

[chibears55]

Offense is inconsistent by nature. It just is. Now the more good hitters you have the fewer offensive slumps, but there are peaks and valleys and yes, some of it has to do with the weather. This is why pitching and defense are so important. You can't be a great team in this era with a good pitching staff and good defense alone, ask the White Sox about that earlier in this decade, but even the best offensive teams need solid pitching and defense to win when the offense struggles to score runs. This team had a 5 game winning streak when runs were hard to come by, that's an elite team. The bats will heat up and then cold again because that's what hitters do. Ask The Dodgers of last year who had a 40 game stretch with a team OPS of over .900 and then a 30 day stretch with a team OPS of under .600, welcome to baseball as Fatbeard said. why do you think I'm so pitching centric?

I get that about consistency and as i said i wouldnt mark them as potent..

Maybe our definition of potent is different but for me a potent offense would be a team that can put up a bunch of runs most everyday and more importantly avoid going consecutive games (3+) being shutdown on a consistent basis..


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[chibears55]

No. The 2016 Indians had a terrific offense yet averaged 2 runs or fewer in their losses. You are living in a personal baseball fantasyland where it's possible to build an offensive that predictably scores four runs a game, every game. It. Does. Not. Work. That. Way.

Key word is terrific not potent...

Some are saying the cubs have a potent offense, i disagree..

They have a very good offense but not potent..
Too many holes to be called potent

27 yankees were probably potent


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[Parade_Rain]

So your definition of a potent offense is they only hit when it hot out.
Not one that should be able to produce runs more consistently and im not talking about slugging 10 runs a game, im talking being able to score 4 + on a consistent basis if their considered potent, not 3-4 games of 6+ then 5-6 games of 3 less...
An average offense probaly gets you 3 to 5 consistently no matter the weather....

So again, i would put them as an above average offense when their on but their very inconsistent even when the weather is warm like yesterday..
Their nit a consistent potent offense that can score a bunch of runs or just produce runs whenever...



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The Cardinals used to be the team that just hung around .500 or so every season and then somehow turned the corner in the 2nd half and won the division. Why does anyone care about 1 month of baseball at the beginning of the season when the Cubs are right at the top of the division? The Cubs have been really good in the 2nd half of the season, particularly in 2015. They were the best team in baseball in the 2nd half, IIRC.

 

[chibears55]

Interesting Schwarber will have 3 days off..
Hope he mashes against the Cardinals this weekend

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[TC in Mississippi]

The 2015 Royals did pretty good with Pitching and Defense

They did. They also had a ton of things go just right too as in both years they exceeded their Pythagorean record by 5 games. Basically their offense got hits at just the right time. That's usually not sustainable. What the Cubs did on the 5 game winning streak was kind of like that too but you wouldn't want to see it for a whole season.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Key word is terrific not potent...

Some are saying the cubs have a potent offense, i disagree..

They have a very good offense but not potent..
Too many holes to be called potent

27 yankees were probably potent


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ALL HAIL SEMANTICS! LOL.

Seriously though, if you're looking for the 1927 Yankees with any club in 2018 you're opening yourself up to some disappointment.

 

[chibears55]

There are 14 teams averaging over 4 runs a game. All of those teams have scored 4 runs or less in at least 33% of their games. The Cubs are just slightly above that at 37% but their sample size is the smallest because they've played the fewest games. If you had an offense that would consistently score 4-5 runs a game you could get away with lousy pitching and defense but since nobody does that you can't.

Cubs are 6th in runs per game at 5.0 and 3rd in the NL behind Atlanta and Arizona at 7.2 and 5.9 respectively.

Again it not about average runs per game...

I see that being high more because they had games of scoring a bunch of runs..
My point is that i dont consider them a potent offense because of the fact that they have a bunch of games where they struggle to even get 3..
As i indicated above with their last 16 games


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[fatbeard]

Key word is terrific not potent...

Some are saying the cubs have a potent offense, i disagree..

They have a very good offense but not potent..
Too many holes to be called potent

27 yankees were probably potent


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The Cubs have the best offense in baseball, not just in the NL, in all of baseball since 2015.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.a...&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=&age=&filter=&players=0

You: "The Cubs offense isn't potent."

Stop being dumb.

 

[chibears55]

The Cardinals used to be the team that just hung around .500 or so every season and then somehow turned the corner in the 2nd half and won the division. Why does anyone care about 1 month of baseball at the beginning of the season when the Cubs are right at the top of the division? The Cubs have been really good in the 2nd half of the season, particularly in 2015. They were the best team in baseball in the 2nd half, IIRC.

Different topic..
Im just saying their not a potent offensive team as some say they are

Their very good at times but also struggle alot more then they should if we're to categorize them as potent..

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[chibears55]

The Cubs have the best offense in baseball, not just in the NL, in all of baseball since 2015.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.a...&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=&age=&filter=&players=0

You: "The Cubs offense isn't potent."

Stop being dumb.

Id look again..
Actually 6th best in major league and 2nd to Rockies in NL..

Again just because they have more runs scored or high average then most teams it doesnt make them potent..
It makes them better then most other teams

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[TC in Mississippi]

Id look again..
Actually 6th best in major league and 2nd to Rockies in NL..

Again just because they have more runs scored or high average then most teams it doesnt make them potent..
It makes them better then most other teams

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Did you look at the numbers in fatbeard's link? It clearly shows that between 2015 and now they are #1 if offense at 91.8 WAR, just above the Dodgers at 85.9. Not sure where you were getting the Rockies as they were 25th at 44.1. In 2018 they're 6th and 2nd in the NL to the Braves.

 

[chibears55]

Did you look at the numbers in fatbeard's link? It clearly shows that between 2015 and now they are #1 if offense at 91.8 WAR, just above the Dodgers at 85.9. Not sure where you were getting the Rockies as they were 25th at 44.1. In 2018 they're 6th and 2nd in the NL to the Braves.

We're talking about runs not WAR

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[chibears55]

Nope. You are looking at runs scored, but runs scored does not adjust for park factors and other things that inflate counting stats. WAR accounts for those things and is the better measure of offensive performance. And the Cubs win handily.

WAR also takes defense in account which the Cubs are very good at..



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[fatbeard]

Did you look at the numbers in fatbeard's link? It clearly shows that between 2015 and now they are #1 if offense at 91.8 WAR, just above the Dodgers at 85.9. Not sure where you were getting the Rockies as they were 25th at 44.1. In 2018 they're 6th and 2nd in the NL to the Braves.

No, he's correct. I thought the sort was only taking into account offense, but it's not.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

No, he's correct. I thought the sort was only taking into account offense, but it's not.

Ah, Ok. I just looked at the page. My bad.

 

[chibears55]

Can we all agree now that this isnt a potent offense because of their average per game and total runs scored..
Agree that it a streaky inconsistent offense that gives you big scoring games for a couple days then nothing for a week..

14 runs last 7 games after scoring 43 in 4 of 5 games before ( 2 in 5th game)

Last 12 games played..
16 runs in 8 games
43 runs in 4 games

Stats say 59 runs and almost 5 per avg
But
You got 8 terrible games and 4 great ones

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I guess were still not in agreement here with some of you..

Maybe it just our definition of potent that differs..

Plus

Just becsuse they average more then or score more then most teams it doesnt make them a potent offense just better then those teams..


At least to me there a difference in having a potent offense and having a good one or one that better then most..

To me a potent offense dont have long stretches of struggling to score runs and do that consistently throughout the year.
If their potent that means their lineup is filled with solid hitting throughout the lineup in which there should always or at least most of time have guys carrying them when other go cold..
This team lacks that for the most part



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[anotheridiot]

I was being sarcastic because of the lineup bats last night..
But yea

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I was just referring to Lester claiming solos wont beat you. I think we now know 3 will.

It just got me to thinking about pinhead pinella taking credit for playing certain guys and being responsible for putting them in the position to play well. There was a whole mindset going with more opposite field hits, but you watch the cubs not shift against colorado and everybody shifting against us. It takes one game like this to ruin a week of lessening shifts.

 

[SilenceS]

The 1927 Yankees? Last time they were brought up. It was ommy and the cubs won the series that year. Keep it coming


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[TC in Mississippi]

WAR also takes defense in account which the Cubs are very good at..



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I took another look and while we had been looking at WAR incorrectly, the right way to sort that table is by Off where the Cubs land second in the NL to the Dodgers over that same period of time. Runs scored does not take into effect park factors. Sorting by wRC+ also puts them in 2nd to the Dodgers over those 3 plus years.

 

[chibears55]

ALL HAIL SEMANTICS! LOL.

Seriously though, if you're looking for the 1927 Yankees with any club in 2018 you're opening yourself up to some disappointment.

Im not..just ssying the 27 yanks may be a team you would describe as potent offensively ss they probably stayed somewhat consistent all year putting up runs..
Not banging for 3 or 4 games then flushing the toilet for a week as we seen them do so far this year and most of last year..

Just saying there a big difference from being potent and terrific or good..

Their not potent, they have holes and inconsistencies in their offense.

All im trying to say..


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