IST: Reds @ Cubs

Omeletpants

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My favorite teams
  1. Colorado Rockies
  1. Atlanta United FC
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  2. Orlando Magic
  3. Phoenix Suns
  4. Sacramento Kings
  1. Columbus Blue Jackets
This has a chance to be a bigger choke job than the 1969 Cubs.

Milleniums will lock themselves in their parents basement for the next 40 years
 

Diehardfan

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Why do you have to be an asshole like a couple otherr posters that I ignore...

Oh im sorry we cant be frustrated by their last 23 games, cause that would make us bad fans and cliff jumpers...

If you think their not going to make a couple trades
You're just being a moron

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Why did you assume he was referring to you?

Paranoid much?
 

chibears55

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Why did you assume he was referring to you?

Paranoid much?
I guess you're not that bright

So

Usually when one quotes your statement, that gives you a hint

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Diehardfan

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
I guess you're not that bright

So

Usually when one quotes your statement, that gives you a hint

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Oh, ouch. That hurts. Being talked down to by a man of your intellect.

Another tough "lost" by our Cubbies today......
 

chibears55

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@TheCCO: Joe Maddon just announced Willson Contreras will catch Jon Lester on Saturday in Pittsburgh #Cubs

Good..

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CSF77

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About time.
 

SilenceS

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Why do you have to be an asshole like a couple otherr posters that I ignore...

Oh im sorry we cant be frustrated by their last 23 games, cause that would make us bad fans and cliff jumpers...

If you think their not going to make a couple trades
You're just being a moron

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Because you say it after every loss. You are literally being captain obvious. The team as a whole has made this losing slide happen. From Arrieta to Lester to Zobrist to everyone. No trade is going to stop this slide. Whats going to stop it? When things start to go right again. They are going to go on a winning streak again. But, trading for a platoon left fielder or a left handed specialist wasnt going to stop any of the shit that has been going on lately. So, the fact you keep announcing every loss because you want to push what you want is tiresome. We know they are losing. We are watching the fucking games. I also know they were so good they allowed themselves this cushion. Yet again, 20 games over .500 and an 8 game lead in the division before the season and everyone is jumping for joy. Now, they fucking suck. Cool. Right now, they do because baseball evens out.
 

CSF77

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Wonder if Joe would go

Zobrist RF
Bryant LF
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
LaStella 3B
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
Lester P

Then.
 

CSF77

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Because you say it after every loss. You are literally being captain obvious. The team as a whole has made this losing slide happen. From Arrieta to Lester to Zobrist to everyone. No trade is going to stop this slide. Whats going to stop it? When things start to go right again. They are going to go on a winning streak again. But, trading for a platoon left fielder or a left handed specialist wasnt going to stop any of the shit that has been going on lately. So, the fact you keep announcing every loss because you want to push what you want is tiresome. We know they are losing. We are watching the fucking games. I also know they were so good they allowed themselves this cushion. Yet again, 20 games over .500 and an 8 game lead in the division before the season and everyone is jumping for joy. Now, they fucking suck. Cool. Right now, they do because baseball evens out.

Not really evening out. They got injured but the big reason is teams are making the starters go deeper into counts. The starters need to throw strikes to counter this hitting approach.
 

SilenceS

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Not really evening out. They got injured but the big reason is teams are making the starters go deeper into counts. The starters need to throw strikes to counter this hitting approach.

Its also evening out. Take the second half of last year and the start to this year up to this slide and they were playing over .700 ball. Its not sustainable. The pitching ERA wasnt sustainable either. They were over half a run better than the next best team.

This whole slide has been this. They need the big pitch. They dont get it. They need the big hit. They dont need it. They need this call. They dont get it. If the ball was 6 inches to the right. They dont get it. The offense puts up some runs. The pitching bombs. The pitching puts up a great line. The hitting is no where to be seen. Starter gives a great start. BP blows it. Starter is shitty. The BP is terrific. Nothing is happening at the same time. Its baseball weirdness and yes, they are missing Fowler. Zobrist has hit sub .200 for 30 plus games now.
 

chibears55

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Because you say it after every loss. You are literally being captain obvious. The team as a whole has made this losing slide happen. From Arrieta to Lester to Zobrist to everyone. No trade is going to stop this slide. Whats going to stop it? When things start to go right again. They are going to go on a winning streak again. But, trading for a platoon left fielder or a left handed specialist wasnt going to stop any of the shit that has been going on lately. So, the fact you keep announcing every loss because you want to push what you want is tiresome. We know they are losing. We are watching the fucking games. I also know they were so good they allowed themselves this cushion. Yet again, 20 games over .500 and an 8 game lead in the division before the season and everyone is jumping for joy. Now, they fucking suck. Cool. Right now, they do because baseball evens out.

No I don't... I haven't brought up trades in a while unless someone else starts up a conversation.

You and 2 others do it to mock me and I'm sure they will be thanking you here.....

Its an IGT I hope were all watching the games..
Isn't the point of being on a message board and in a IGT to discuss the game and what going on ?
Good or bad
Win or lose


Do you sit with your buddy at the bar watching the game
when they play bad and lose and tell him, don't be upset its just one loss...
Hey Their 20 games up, its ok they look like shit and can't beat the lowly Reds..
If so, he probably wants to punch you in the mouth..lol

But I don't think you do..

I'm sure you're swearing and pissed off and saying all the stuff you tell me and others we shouldn't say on here for whatever reason..

They lose to the Braves tomorrow, don't pretend like it don't bother you.. It ok to be upset and then move on to Pittsburgh and hope for the best there..

Peace


















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chibears55

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Wonder if Joe would go

Zobrist RF
Bryant LF
Rizzo 1B
Contreras C
LaStella 3B
Russell SS
Heyward CF
Baez 2B
Lester P

Then.

There a chance Fowler will be back this weekend
That what I'm hoping for....

Then maybe we see more of Bryant in LF and LaStella and Baez taking over 3B..

Hopefully Contreras and Lester has a good game together and we see more of Contreras behind the plate in the 2nd half.
As one guy mentioned on CTL, sooner or later we have to see him catching Arrieta and Lester consistently if
A. He continues to play solid ball and you wanna keep his bat and Baez bat in lineup come playoff.

B. Have him ready for next year to take over

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Spunky Porkstacker

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No I don't... I haven't brought up trades in a while unless someone else starts up a conversation.

You and 2 others do it to mock me and I'm sure they will be thanking you here.....

Its an IGT I hope were all watching the games..
Isn't the point of being on a message board and in a IGT to discuss the game and what going on ?
Good or bad
Win or lose


Do you sit with your buddy at the bar watching the game
when they play bad and lose and tell him, don't be upset its just one loss...
Hey Their 20 games up, its ok they look like shit and can't beat the lowly Reds..
If so, he probably wants to punch you in the mouth..lol

But I don't think you do..

I'm sure you're swearing and pissed off and saying all the stuff you tell me and others we shouldn't say on here for whatever reason..

They lose to the Braves tomorrow, don't pretend like it don't bother you.. It ok to be upset and then move on to Pittsburgh and hope for the best there..

Peace


















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[video=youtube_share;EL8e2ujXe8g]https://youtu.be/EL8e2ujXe8g[/video]
 

Boobaby1

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The Cubs are playing the worst ball in over a year with a bunch of injuries, and they are still 8 games up over the Pirates, and the Cardinals have actually lost a game in the standings in the last 3 days. The Cubs have lost basically every outfielder except Heyward, and they have had to bring up how many minor leaguers to fill those spots?

Can we not find any comfort and solace in that?
 

DanTown

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05 White Sox let a similar lead get down to 1.5 before winning the WS.
15 Royals went 11-17 in September.
14 Giants didn't even win the division, finished the year 6-9, won 88 games, won the WS

I could go on but I won't.

Do the Cubs look really bad right now? Of course they do. But if all I'm going to hear at the start of the year when they played above their heads was "only matters if they win the WS" then when they struggle, I'm going to say "well it only matters if they don't win the WS".

Here are my concerns in order

1. The lack of a consistent K pitcher outside of Rondon in the bullpen (Cahill and Strop get them but they're not consistent enough to be 8th inning guys)
2. Arrieta reverting back to Baltimore style pitching (high walks, inability to go deep in to games)
3. Heyward being unable to string together 10-15 games of solid hitting
4. Zobrist looking quite average aside from a gigantic May

I think a lot of problems will be solved with Fowler coming back, being that consistent lead-off hitter, and giving the team a little normalcy. They'll make a move for a bullpen arm (though Edwards has looked quite good, Nathan is showing signs in the minors) and their starters will bounce back (just like they weren't as good the first 30, they're not this bad the last 15).

Because let's say Jake bounces back a little, throws more innings. Means less innings for bullpen guys to stay fresher. Means the bullpen is a little sharper.

I'm fine with the bullpen if it's

Rondon (CL)
High K guy (8th)
Cahill/Strop (7th)
Wood/Edwards (6th)

So really, we're talking adding one arm, getting Fowler back, and a little progression to the mean with their SP.
 

Washington

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This has a chance to be a bigger choke job than the 1969 Cubs.

Milleniums will lock themselves in their parents basement for the next 40 years

But us baby boomers would just say ho hum because we've seen the lovable losers choke it away so many times over the last half a century. We'll just say "Wait until next year".
 

CSF77

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05 White Sox let a similar lead get down to 1.5 before winning the WS.
15 Royals went 11-17 in September.
14 Giants didn't even win the division, finished the year 6-9, won 88 games, won the WS

I could go on but I won't.

Do the Cubs look really bad right now? Of course they do. But if all I'm going to hear at the start of the year when they played above their heads was "only matters if they win the WS" then when they struggle, I'm going to say "well it only matters if they don't win the WS".

Here are my concerns in order

1. The lack of a consistent K pitcher outside of Rondon in the bullpen (Cahill and Strop get them but they're not consistent enough to be 8th inning guys)
2. Arrieta reverting back to Baltimore style pitching (high walks, inability to go deep in to games)
3. Heyward being unable to string together 10-15 games of solid hitting
4. Zobrist looking quite average aside from a gigantic May

I think a lot of problems will be solved with Fowler coming back, being that consistent lead-off hitter, and giving the team a little normalcy. They'll make a move for a bullpen arm (though Edwards has looked quite good, Nathan is showing signs in the minors) and their starters will bounce back (just like they weren't as good the first 30, they're not this bad the last 15).

Because let's say Jake bounces back a little, throws more innings. Means less innings for bullpen guys to stay fresher. Means the bullpen is a little sharper.

I'm fine with the bullpen if it's

Rondon (CL)
High K guy (8th)
Cahill/Strop (7th)
Wood/Edwards (6th)

So really, we're talking adding one arm, getting Fowler back, and a little progression to the mean with their SP.

Jake needs to get strike one. He even said he is falling behind in the counts.

Think of each at bat as a battle. The hitters have been taking pitches on him. So it puts it on him to put the ball in the strike zone vs baiting a swing.

It doesn't have to be a meatball strike. He can still mix it up as long as it is a strike.

This is in the early counts. If he is winning the battle in the AB then he can waste a pitch or two with a bait pitch to induce a swing and miss. But using this in early counts the hitter has been sitting on those pitches causing Jake's pitch count to escalate.
 

Washington

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05 White Sox let a similar lead get down to 1.5 before winning the WS.
15 Royals went 11-17 in September.
14 Giants didn't even win the division, finished the year 6-9, won 88 games, won the WS

I could go on but I won't.

Do the Cubs look really bad right now? Of course they do. But if all I'm going to hear at the start of the year when they played above their heads was "only matters if they win the WS" then when they struggle, I'm going to say "well it only matters if they don't win the WS".

Here are my concerns in order

1. The lack of a consistent K pitcher outside of Rondon in the bullpen (Cahill and Strop get them but they're not consistent enough to be 8th inning guys)
2. Arrieta reverting back to Baltimore style pitching (high walks, inability to go deep in to games)
3. Heyward being unable to string together 10-15 games of solid hitting
4. Zobrist looking quite average aside from a gigantic May

I think a lot of problems will be solved with Fowler coming back, being that consistent lead-off hitter, and giving the team a little normalcy. They'll make a move for a bullpen arm (though Edwards has looked quite good, Nathan is showing signs in the minors) and their starters will bounce back (just like they weren't as good the first 30, they're not this bad the last 15).

Because let's say Jake bounces back a little, throws more innings. Means less innings for bullpen guys to stay fresher. Means the bullpen is a little sharper.

I'm fine with the bullpen if it's

Rondon (CL)
High K guy (8th)
Cahill/Strop (7th)
Wood/Edwards (6th)

So really, we're talking adding one arm, getting Fowler back, and a little progression to the mean with their SP.

I feel that our free-swinging high strike out team is not a utopian build for the playoffs especially when the cold comes. The Mets continue to show us how good pitching and average hitting is enough to beat us.

I am not a fan of the bullpen overall and especially fear them come playoff time when managers make so many more moves.

I think our starting pitching is overrated and Arrieta is starting to scare me. We may be seeing the real Arrieta.

I love how the Royals were built last year. Their hitters put the ball in play and their bullpen was deep. The rental of Cueto was brilliant. Law of averages says we're due, for like 80 years now, but while I love seeing this young competitive team, I don't think they are built for winning it all at this time. Theo needs to put far more focus on developing pitching in the minors while finding a high BA hitter for the outfield.
 

beckdawg

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I feel that our free-swinging high strike out team

?

The cubs are 17th in the league in k rate among non-pitchers at 20.6%. They are essentially league average(20.5%). The 5 highest k rates on the team are Schwarber who took 5 PAs and is out for the season, Candelario who should still be in AAA but injuries, Coghlan who's a bench bat, Federowicz who's an emergency catcher and Contreras who again probably should still be in AAA but injuries. Russell is the worst starter at 25.4%.
 

TC in Mississippi

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I feel that our free-swinging high strike out team is not a utopian build for the playoffs especially when the cold comes. The Mets continue to show us how good pitching and average hitting is enough to beat us.

I am not a fan of the bullpen overall and especially fear them come playoff time when managers make so many more moves.

I think our starting pitching is overrated and Arrieta is starting to scare me. We may be seeing the real Arrieta.

I love how the Royals were built last year. Their hitters put the ball in play and their bullpen was deep. The rental of Cueto was brilliant. Law of averages says we're due, for like 80 years now, but while I love seeing this young competitive team, I don't think they are built for winning it all at this time. Theo needs to put far more focus on developing pitching in the minors while finding a high BA hitter for the outfield.

I posted this on another site in response to another post but nearly all of it applies here so here goes.

There are a few things in your post I want to address. The first is the myth of 1 run playoff games. In the 2015 playoffs 5 out of 39 games were 1 run games. There was also a 14 inning game so that kind of fits the same profile but that still 6 out 39 so that's still only 15% of playoff games decided by one run. There were only a handful more decided by 2 runs. The reality is that to win a 7 game playoff series you probably have to win 1 or 2 close games of your 4 wins. In a 5 game series 1 close game of your 3 wins is likely. There's a misconception that good pitching always beats good hitting and that's not empirically true. Great pitching almost always beats good hitting but great hitting often beats very solid pitching. You don't have to win a ton of games 2-1 or 3-2. I mean that's simply not accurate. I'll get to this in more detail later in the post but, when healthy and playing well, the Cubs have a lineup of very good hitters that can score runs. To say that won't be a factor in the playoffs is inaccurate.

The next thing is the bullpen. You're writing it off as if it is terrible beyond redemption which is simply not the case. Rondon and Strop have been excellent as has Travis Wood in the role he's been asked to take. Carl Edwards has started to show that he may be that right handed answer with great stuff and a ton of K's and for the most part Trevor Cahill, with some blips like yesterday, has been good as well. In the regular season the Cubs use a bullpen rotation of 7-8 guys while in the playoffs they'll use 5, maybe 6 and one of those will be the starter that isn't used. As far as the playoff roster I would say they'll probably use one of Cahill or Warren depending on performance down the stretch so now you're talking Rondon, Strop, Wood, Cahill/Warren, Edwards a LOOGY yet to be acquired and likely Kyle Hendricks. You can't tell me that's not capable of being a good playoff bullpen.

The next thing is the lineup that you don't believe is capable of winning playoff games. Here would be a likely playoff lineup:

Fowler CF
Zobrist 2B
Bryant LF
Rizzo 1B
Baez 3B
Heyward RF
Contreras C
Russell SS

Obviously there are variables in terms of righty/lefty pitching matchups, individual matchups, etc and there is the real possibility that Heyward could regain his form, but that looks like a pretty typical lineup. Can you honestly tell me that's worse than the other likely playoff teams? I think SF, Washington, St. Louis and Miami all have strong hitting lineups but are they that much better? I would say no. That lineup, given the right matchups, will score a lot of runs.

As far as trades I certainly expect them to make some. A left handed reliever is a must and Edwards has only had a small sample size so you can't pencil him in just yet. So maybe you need two relievers, but likely just one will do it. I think the possibility of upgrading from Hammel is a real one. Hendricks does not fit the mold of a playoff pitcher, regardless of how good he has been, due to his need for pinpoint command. So that's probably one reliever and a starter. A left handed bench bat is not out of the question but might be more for the regular season than the playoffs. These are doable acquisitions.

Listen, none of this is to excuse the poor play the last couple of weeks. The depth has been tasked and at times they've had three rookies in the lineup out of need, not performance. They've looked sloppy and not sharp. I guess I'm just not ready to look at a team on 7/7 and say that's going to be in October when they have this kind of talent. Bryant, Rizzo, Fowler and Zobrist are rock solid playoff guys. Heyward should be if he can get it together and Baez and Russell are consistently improving, even in this rough stretch. Contreras is a rookie but I have faith that he'll perform.

I'm not saying any of this to be a polyanna, there are problems to be fixed, but to look at this team today and say they're not a contender is shortsighted and foolish. The Mets were just keeping pace with the Nationals at this time last year and they had far great needs to acquire than the Cubs do this year. I think so much of this writing off of the team in July is a defense mechanism based on past heartbreak. That's being a baseball fan it's being shellshocked Cubs fan and I'm trying, and mostly succeeding, in not going there. I have faith because I recognize talent and trust the people running this team. It's really that simple.
 

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