It's Another VogelBomb! 2013 Minor League Thread

[CSF77]

Also, the asking price for David Price is going to be astronomical. We saw what the Cubs had to give for Garza and what Texas gave for a half year rental pitcher in Garza.

Now double that as far as talent is concerned to the Rays because that is what they do and how they work. When the Cubs are established and have a surplus of talent, then and only then do you make a move like that. The Cubs do not have a surplus yet.

They need to have a top 5 organization in the minors with Baez, Bryant, Hendricks, Edwards and a few others already up before you make a move. Depleting the farm now is not wise and counter-productive. I don't care who the pitcher or player is.

Very true. They are not going to buy a team so it is stupid to sell off what talent they have gained.

 

[SilenceS]

Also, the asking price for David Price is going to be astronomical. We saw what the Cubs had to give for Garza and what Texas gave for a half year rental pitcher in Garza.

Now double that as far as talent is concerned to the Rays because that is what they do and how they work. When the Cubs are established and have a surplus of talent, then and only then do you make a move like that. The Cubs do not have a surplus yet.

They need to have a top 5 organization in the minors with Baez, Bryant, Hendricks, Edwards and a few others already up before you make a move. Depleting the farm now is not wise and counter-productive. I don't care who the pitcher or player is.

Spot on. Also, The Cubs have what the 4th pick in the draft next year. Could be a good chance to get a nice ace type college pitcher. Price would cost to much farm and to much money for my liking. His velocity dipped this year and he has some inning on him already.

 

[Chris J]

The top 2 arms in the draft are both college pitchers and Idk if they will fall to the Cubs at 4. Watch for Kolek. He's a high school kid but hits 99 consistently

 

[Boobaby1]

Spot on. Also, The Cubs have what the 4th pick in the draft next year. Could be a good chance to get a nice ace type college pitcher. Price would cost to much farm and to much money for my liking. His velocity dipped this year and he has some inning on him already.

And there is a strong chance that they will have a good pick the year after. Time to load up on pitching.

 

[Boobaby1]

The top 2 arms in the draft are both college pitchers and Idk if they will fall to the Cubs at 4. Watch for Kolek. He's a high school kid but hits 99 consistently

This is where the Cubs could possibly trade up to net a top two pick if they feel it is necessary. The draft class next year figures to be strong, so they may not have to do anything. I will leave that up to the people that get paid to do whatever it is they do.

 

[Jntg4]

This is where the Cubs could possibly trade up to net a top two pick if they feel it is necessary. The draft class next year figures to be strong, so they may not have to do anything. I will leave that up to the people that get paid to do whatever it is they do.

I don't know how it is possible to do that when only competitive balance draft picks may be traded.

 

[Boobaby1]

I don't know how it is possible to do that when only competitive balance draft picks may be traded.

Whoops! My bad. Got football on my mind.

In baseball related news however, CJ Edwards took home an award.

http://chicagocubsonline.com/archiv...lb-com-starting-pitcher-year.php#.UmiP_u0o4dU

There is something unfamiliar with the Cubs minor league affiliates. :buttrock:

 

[CSF77]

Getting the feeling that Bryant maybe concidered #1 or 2 prospect in baseball pretty soon. He is sure looking it.

Almora, Bryant turn heads in Fall League
By Jesse Rogers | ESPNChicago.com


MESA, Ariz. -- It's hard to find an Arizona Fall League observer who will say anything negative about Chicago Cubs prospects Albert Almora and Kris Bryant. Both are creating a buzz that should reverberate all the way back to Chicago.

"You're looking at two special kids," Mesa Solar Sox manager Bill Richardson said. "Getting to know them now, they are great-makeup guys. Great workers. Almora is a baseball rat. Bryant has power that you don’t see in young players."

Richardson works for the Angels so he has nothing invested in saying such nice things. Neither do the scouts who watch the games. No less than 10 who were polled say Bryant, in particular, is going to be a special player.

"He has total control of the strike zone, is very short to the ball and has power to all fields," one scout said.

Another added: "It's not an all-or-nothing swing. It's very controlled."

At 6-5, Bryant is drawing comparisons to some of the big third baseman who have played the game, like Troy Glaus. But his wide stance and big home runs -- he just missed hitting three in a game last Friday -- are drawing comparisons to former Cub Dave Kingman.

"I do see that Kingman reference but he controls that barrel a little bit more," Richardson said.

One scout said he was "shocked" at how agile Bryant is and many don't see an issue with him playing third base. Some think he could move to first, if needed someday, or of course the outfield.

No one is shocked by Almora's athleticism. The first-round pick of 2012 is back from an injury-plagued minor league season without any lingering issues.

"He's locked in," Richardson said of his .379 hitting center fielder. "He has all the tools and the ball jumps off his bat. Yeah, he has some weaknesses but he has weaknesses that a 23-year-old has. He's 19."

Bryant is on the faster track to Wrigley Field simply because of his age (21) and experience (three years in college). It's quicker to list the statistical categories he doesn't lead the Fall League in. Through games on Tuesday he led all hitters in batting average, home runs, RBIs, runs scored, slugging percentage and extra-base hits. And third base hasn't been an issue after some talk of moving him to the outfield. He has yet to play out there.

"I don't see anything at all that says he's not a third baseman," Cubs Triple-A and Solar Sox coach Brian Harper said. "He's got a plus arm, is accurate and runs very well. To be a good third baseman you have to have an accurate arm and a good first step. He has both of those. I don't see any reason why he can't be a real solid big league third baseman."

But it's his bat that will get him to the big leagues and possibly turn him into a star. He's not there yet but all signs point to middle-of-the-order power that should play at Wrigley Field like Kingman used to.

"He could do some special things in that ballpark," one scout said.

Harper added: "He has line-to-line power, and the power in the big leagues plays through the middle of the field and he has that."

More than anything, the Solar Sox coaches are impressed with Almora and Bryant’s work ethic. Time and again, it's what keeps coming back to describe Bryant's rise to the Cubs' No. 2-overall pick in June.

"That's the sixth tool we don't talk enough about," Richardson said of both players. "Their insides match their outsides."

The Cubs have other players playing for the Solar Sox -- Richardson says pitcher Armando Rivero has a "live" arm -- but it's the hitters who are making noise. Led by Almora's four hits in his debut game two weeks ago, Cubs players accounted for 12 RBIs in a 13-3 win over Glendale.

"It was a special day, especially happening in Mesa," Richardson said. "I'm not surprised by the outcome because I know the talent. It's a good time to be a Cubs fan."

Even as an Angels' employee, Richardson can't avoid the hype.

 

[CSF77]

Ya know he maybe ranked higher than Baez by S/T. Nothing against Baez with that but Bryant is a better hitter.

Also I can see Bryant sticking at 3B.

I'll make a early prediction:

Olt starts at 3B but gets traded out along side Castro to make room for Baez and Bryant. They add more arms with the trades.

No one will complain with 2 30 HR hitters on that side of the diamond.

Cubs will be better off losing Castro. For a 1/2 hitter he comes in nowhere near .400 OBA even in his 200 hit year. He did not adapt to waiting on his pitch so he is stuck into that style. Too boot he lacks HR power to lower in the line up.

 

[beckdawg]

Ya know he maybe ranked higher than Baez by S/T. Nothing against Baez with that but Bryant is a better hitter.

I doubt it. Bryant is a more polished player. Baez has more raw potential. Prospect people will always take potential over polish. Also, as good as Bryant has played he's still a year older than Baez. Baez was crushing AA pitching this year while Bryant was still in A/A+ ball. That's not to say that Bryant is bad but Baez is younger and farther into the system. While it's unlikely, Bryant could struggle at AA. Baez has already proven he can hit AA and arguably should start next year in AAA.

 

[CSF77]

I doubt it. Bryant is a more polished player. Baez has more raw potential. Prospect people will always take potential over polish. Also, as good as Bryant has played he's still a year older than Baez. Baez was crushing AA pitching this year while Bryant was still in A/A+ ball. That's not to say that Bryant is bad but Baez is younger and farther into the system. While it's unlikely, Bryant could struggle at AA. Baez has already proven he can hit AA and arguably should start next year in AAA.

Bryant is more skilled. Baez is more of all or nothing with his swing.

I'll bet that going by OPS every year Bryant will win out of the two.

It is just complete hitter vs free swinger. It is like comparing Pujos to Sori. Both can bash 35 HR's but what do they do inbetween the bombs.

 

[Jntg4]

Ya know he maybe ranked higher than Baez by S/T. Nothing against Baez with that but Bryant is a better hitter.

Also I can see Bryant sticking at 3B.

I'll make a early prediction:

Olt starts at 3B but gets traded out along side Castro to make room for Baez and Bryant. They add more arms with the trades.

No one will complain with 2 30 HR hitters on that side of the diamond.

Cubs will be better off losing Castro. For a 1/2 hitter he comes in nowhere near .400 OBA even in his 200 hit year. He did not adapt to waiting on his pitch so he is stuck into that style. Too boot he lacks HR power to lower in the line up.

They won't trade Castro just because of prospects below him. Castro and/or Baez could simply slide over to 2B, we still don't know for sure that neither Baez nor Bryant will bust at the ML level.

 

[CSF77]

They won't trade Castro just because of prospects below him. Castro and/or Baez could simply slide over to 2B, we still don't know for sure that neither Baez nor Bryant will bust at the ML level.

Rather let 2B go to Alcantia. Better BB% while providing the same hitting and base running. S/H. Far better to sell Castro for a quality arm.

 

[beckdawg]

Bryant is more skilled. Baez is more of all or nothing with his swing.

I'll bet that going by OPS every year Bryant will win out of the two.

It is just complete hitter vs free swinger. It is like comparing Pujos to Sori. Both can bash 35 HR's but what do they do inbetween the bombs.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying Baez will be a better pro. I'm saying he has a higher talent ceiling. Baez put up nearly 1000 OPS as a 20 year old in AA. If you project his AA numbers over 600 plate appearances you're talking 50 HRs and 134 RBI. If you project Bryants numbers at A/A+ over 600 plate appearances you're looking at 37 HRs and 132 RBIs. Bryant may end up hitting for a higher average in the majors but Baez has the potential to be a top 5 power hitter.

As I've said, Bryant is more polished however, he's closer to whatever he will end up being. It's rather unlikely for him to suddenly become much better than he already is. However, there's a number of areas Baez can still improve in despite his absurd AA numbers. Baez might never get any better either but he could also become less of a free swinger which would make him even better than he already is. For example, if he's on a 50 HR pace in AA with a .294 average what if he improves to a .320 hitter? Also, Baez is currently playing SS which is simply put a more valuable position than 3B is and that's assuming Bryant sticks there as some believe he is destined for the OF.

At the end of the day, it's splitting hairs. Baez will probably be a top 10 prospect on most lists and Bryant will be a top 15-20. Baez is probably the more risky of the two but if he reaches his potential he should be a better player.

 

[CSF77]

As I've said, Bryant is more polished however, he's closer to whatever he will end up being. It's rather unlikely for him to suddenly become much better than he already is.

Most scouts feel that Bryant can fill out more physically which means he will get bigger and stronger. He is already being compared to Dave Kingman with better barrel control.

I'm not knocking Baez at all. I'm just saying is he is viewed as a free swinger. Hitters are what they are.

 

[SilenceS]

Well funny thing is Baez is considered a boom or bust. He actually I would e considered able to hit for a better average then Bryant. There is a lot of swing and miss with Bryant's game as well. He just walks a lot. If Baez truly makes it scouts believe he could sustain a .330 Babip because of his hard contact. I would suggest people look at video of Baez. You feel bad for the ball when e hits it. Even when he gets himself out the ball jumps off his bat. I think dale said it best about Baez. I have seen some guys hit the ball as hard but I have never seen anyone hit the ball harder then him. His bat speed is that of the Gods. That can never be taught

 

[CSF77]

Like I said never was knocking him. I'm just saying Baez is top 10. Bryant could be top 2. Not a knock at all. Playing in the Fall league with players ranked above him he is by far the best player in the league. Baez played there last year after he had a full season on MiLB under his belt and was struggling until his thumb injury.

The main point here is Bryant was the best hitter in the draft and hit more HR's then 200 colleges.

To be honest here Bryant is meeting his hype coming in. Baez over played his expectations this year.

I could see 80 HR's coming out of 3B and SS every year. Not joking here at all.

 

[Rice Cube]

Time to :fap:

 

[Jntg4]

Rather let 2B go to Alcantia. Better BB% while providing the same hitting and base running. S/H. Far better to sell Castro for a quality arm.

"Rather let 2B go to prospect-whose-name-I-apparently-don't-know-yet."

Spoiler

Alcantara

 

[CSF77]

"Rather let 2B go to prospect-whose-name-I-apparently-don't-know-yet."

Spoiler

Alcantara

funny. I never get his name right. Alcantara.

But it would be at the trade deadline if they decide to do anything.

Starlin Castro ss
7 years/$60M (2013-19), plus 2020 option

7 years/$60M (2013-19), plus 2020 club option
signed extension with Chicago Cubs 8/28/12
$6M signing bonus
13:$5M, 14:$5M, 15:$6M, 16:$7M, 17:$9M, 18:$10M, 19:$11M, 20:$16M club option ($1M buyout)
performance bonuses
2019 salary and 2020 option increase by $2M each with one MVP in 2013-19 or two Top 5 finishes in MVP vote, 2013-19
deal does not include no-trade protection
1 year/$0.567M (2012)
re-signed by Chicago Cubs 3/5/12
1 year/$0.44M (2011)
re-signed by Chicago Cubs 3/11
1 year (2010)
contract purchased by Chicago Cubs 5/7/10
signed by Chicago Cubs 2004 as an amateur free agent from the Dominican Republic
ML service: 2.150

If he bounces back and a team offers a top of the rotation arm for him I'm guessing that they might bite with the excess depth.

The main point here is short term the Cubs need a RH power hitter. Long term the team is going to be RH heavy. Hitters like Alcantara should be getting roles on the team if they can produce. They are going to have to look at LF with a LH power hitter in mind.

And no it is not 100% guaranteed that Bryant and Baez will make the team but looking how they are letting Castro and Rizzo take their growing pains I wouldn't take that bet.