It's Another VogelBomb! 2013 Minor League Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,730
Liked Posts:
3,726
I mean I don't disagree with your opinions of guys other than Jackson. My only point was we're really looking at best case scenario with everyone save for Baker and maybe Villeneuva. Had things gone poorly they could have gone really poorly and without a guy like Jackson we might be talking 60 wins instead of 70. It never hurts to have too much pitching and in the case of Jackson he could rebound fairly decently. If he doesn't, there's some intriguing guys waiting in the wings. At that point, I think you consider moving him in favor of other guys but at this point i think it's a bit early is all especially if they are actually considering moving Shark.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
I mean I don't disagree with your opinions of guys other than Jackson. My only point was we're really looking at best case scenario with everyone save for Baker and maybe Villeneuva. Had things gone poorly they could have gone really poorly and without a guy like Jackson we might be talking 60 wins instead of 70. It never hurts to have too much pitching and in the case of Jackson he could rebound fairly decently. If he doesn't, there's some intriguing guys waiting in the wings. At that point, I think you consider moving him in favor of other guys but at this point i think it's a bit early is all especially if they are actually considering moving Shark.

I doubt they will move him. Jackson is a known and he is coming in with a fat contract and low value. Shark is still under 2 years of control and could be flipped.

Jackson would have to pitch good enough to push a 3.50 ERA get his WHIP in the 1.25 range and get over 14 wins to have resale value at the end of the year. Even then the Cubs would have to eat some of the deal.

What I would do here in their situation:

1: Feild offers for Shark and get involved in talks with Tanaka and Johnson if A.A. lets him go. Kick the tires on Ubaldo because most likely he opts out and becomes the #1 targeted arm.

2: Ink Baker to a incentive laden deal. Keep Grimm and Carlos V. in long relief as back up.

3: If I can find a taker on Shark then ink a deal with J.J. I expect him to bounce back after getting bone spurs removed.


Now if Baker decides to go elsewhere and the Pads cut Richardson swipe him up as a 2nd LHP in the rotation.

What ever they do do not trade up for a SP unless the other team will center the deal around Soler or Almora. Baez and Bryant are untouchable. Price is the only one worth going for then.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,730
Liked Posts:
3,726
I doubt they will move him. Jackson is a known and he is coming in with a fat contract and low value. Shark is still under 2 years of control and could be flipped.

Jackson would have to pitch good enough to push a 3.50 ERA get his WHIP in the 1.25 range and get over 14 wins to have resale value at the end of the year. Even then the Cubs would have to eat some of the deal.

What I would do here in their situation:

1: Feild offers for Shark and get involved in talks with Tanaka and Johnson if A.A. lets him go. Kick the tires on Ubaldo because most likely he opts out and becomes the #1 targeted arm.

2: Ink Baker to a incentive laden deal. Keep Grimm and Carlos V. in long relief as back up.

3: If I can find a taker on Shark then ink a deal with J.J. I expect him to bounce back after getting bone spurs removed.


Now if Baker decides to go elsewhere and the Pads cut Richardson swipe him up as a 2nd LHP in the rotation.

What ever they do do not trade up for a SP unless the other team will center the deal around Soler or Almora. Baez and Bryant are untouchable. Price is the only one worth going for then.

I'd argue Almora is untouchable as well. From what I've read, the scout view him at worst a decent major leaguer. He supposedly has the highest floor of any of the big four prospects with a lot of potential to go higher than that. Also, CF is a rather premium position in the vein of SS.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
I'd argue Almora is untouchable as well. From what I've read, the scout view him at worst a decent major leaguer. He supposedly has the highest floor of any of the big four prospects with a lot of potential to go higher than that. Also, CF is a rather premium position in the vein of SS.

I agree in general with what you are saying but as far as Cubs needs go there is no proven power hitting RH on the team. That puts Baez/Bryant on high priority.

RH singles hitters Almora fits the Castro mold so they have a RH that can hi 1 or 2 and hit near .300.

So in terms of need the Cubs need Bryant and Baez more than Almora.

Soler on the other hand I'm not sold on yet. Right now he is looking over matched in the AFL while Bryant looks like a studd there. So as far as advanced hitting Bryant is more polished. Almora has been getting the shaft it seemes on that team and deserves more AB's.

Almora is pushed behind the Nats #1 prospect Brian Goodwin.

Almora: .600/.600/1.200 10 AB
Goodwin: .357/.438/.500 14 AB

Then Soler is leading the league in AB 21 and pushing .190/.190/.333 (Theo must have slipped some cash to the manager)

Bryant: 18 AB .444/.450/.833

Now I would put him in competition for LF next year in S/T. If he pushes out this production there I'd make him my opening day LF and let him take his lumps in 2014.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
Almora: 2 for 4 2x 2B 1 RS. 2 RBI
Soler 1 for 5
Bryant DNP
 

daddies3angels

Is it next year yet?
Donator
Joined:
Apr 17, 2010
Posts:
10,038
Liked Posts:
819
Location:
Peoria IL
I agree in general with what you are saying but as far as Cubs needs go there is no proven power hitting RH on the team. That puts Baez/Bryant on high priority.

RH singles hitters Almora fits the Castro mold so they have a RH that can hi 1 or 2 and hit near .300.

So in terms of need the Cubs need Bryant and Baez more than Almora.

Soler on the other hand I'm not sold on yet. Right now he is looking over matched in the AFL while Bryant looks like a studd there. So as far as advanced hitting Bryant is more polished. Almora has been getting the shaft it seemes on that team and deserves more AB's.

Almora is pushed behind the Nats #1 prospect Brian Goodwin.

Almora: .600/.600/1.200 10 AB
Goodwin: .357/.438/.500 14 AB

Then Soler is leading the league in AB 21 and pushing .190/.190/.333 (Theo must have slipped some cash to the manager)

Bryant: 18 AB .444/.450/.833

Now I would put him in competition for LF next year in S/T. If he pushes out this production there I'd make him my opening day LF and let him take his lumps in 2014.

Ever heard of SSS??? Clearly thats all that is lol
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
Almora: 8 for 14 .571/.600/1.143 3 2B 1 HR 1 BB 1 SO
Goodwin: 6 for 18 .333/.400/.444 2 2B 1 SB 1 BB 5 SO

Those 2 are fighting for P/T in CF. I'd move one to LF.

Bryant: 8 for 21 .381/.417/.714 1 2B/ 2 HR 2 SB 2 BB 4 SO

Both Almora and Bryant look very advanced at this level. Most of the competition are AA talent and they are the cream of it.

Then Soler

5 for 26 .192/.192/.308 3 2B no BB 6 SO. He looks over matched. We can say if is the time missed but I'm thinking this is the same thing Baez went through last year. He was not advanced enough to play with this talent.

Now my personal opinion: Screw the timelines and push Bryant and Almora. At this point I would let them take the winter off and both hit the training rooms to improve their endurance and strength in AZ with Buss.

Then next year I would invite Baez/Bryant/Almora into the big league camp. If they blow up the projected starters it is very tempting to push them up.

Bryant I can see it for sure.

Baez not 100% sure because he has a lot of swing and miss going on but if he can keep his SO in check and can keep his BB at 10% in S/T (especially towards the end when pitchers are tuning up for opening day vs working on location and command)


Almora just looks so advanced right now an at min. I would have him skip Daytona. That rain pit is not going to challenge him. I'd start him at AA but I feel that maybe conservative for his talent level. He is cut from the mold as a hitter that Jeter is. I'd have him at AAA in May if he keeps up the production. Dude can flat out hit.

Soler on the other hand should go to winter league to get it together. I view him as suspect. Yes he is a great athlete but still suspect until he ups his game.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,730
Liked Posts:
3,726
http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/...w-on-cubs-prospects-latest-on-manager-search/

Professor Parks has some fantastic stuff at Baseball Prospectus on Cubs prospects. Among the highlights...

His Top 4 farm systems are the Twins, Cubs, Astros, and Pirates -- though not necessarily in that order.

Parks was asked why he's not as high on C.J. Edwards as Keith Law and some other prospect gurus. Parks' response is that he has seen Edwards a ton and loves his stuff, but feels his build will hold him back from being a frontline starter. He adds that he doesn't believe Edwards has the frame to put on weight. He thinks he can still be a good prospect who will dominate in spurts, but hasn't spoken to one scout who believes he's a frontline guy. For what it's worth, I have heard the same thing from those I have spoken with on Edwards.

He considers Kris Bryant a top 10 prospect, slotting him just below highly touted Cardinals OF prospect Oscar Tavares. He believes Bryant will play RF and is a "polished offensive monster" who could be in the big leagues by 2014.

Albert Almora is a top 20 prospect and Parks believes he has the skill set to handle AA, though the Cubs have no real reason to rush him.

Javier Baez ends up at 3B because of his good hands and good arm -- but "his bat is his glory".

Corey Black is certain to end up in the bullpen but Parks feels he will be a major leaguer.

And finally he rates the Cubs top 4 prospects on the 2-8 scale with 6 being an everyday, above average MLB player: Baez 7, Bryant (high 6) and Almora and Soler are both a 6. He does think it is likely that at least one will underwhelm, however.

Keith Law has his take on AFL prospects and kicks it off with the 3 Cubs stars...

Jorge Soler is visibly bigger and stronger than when Law last saw him. Law hasn't seen him since he first broke in at Rookie Level Arizona, however. He also said Soler looked like the most improved of the 3 prospects but that's partly because Bryant and Almora were already so advanced. In other words, Soler had the most room to grow.

He missed Albert Almora's 4 hit day but saw him get 2 hits including a hard triple off of hard throwing RP John Stilson.

Bryant put on a big time power show in BP and was easily squaring up 97 mph fastballs. Hard to figure out how pitchers are going to approach him at this time. He's going to be a tough out.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
Today:
Almora in CF Goodwin in LF. (Manager got a clue)
Both Soler and Bryant with the day off.

Don't matter Mesa can not do wrong. Up 6-1 after 4 HR's. Swear this team is just mauling teams this fall.
 

Jntg4

Fire Forum Moderator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 26, 2010
Posts:
26,017
Liked Posts:
3,297
Location:
Minnesota
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
6-1 final yesterday
Almora 1-4, K
nobody else saw action
 

Jntg4

Fire Forum Moderator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 26, 2010
Posts:
26,017
Liked Posts:
3,297
Location:
Minnesota
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
5.5 game lead, elimination numbers down to 18 for both Salt River and Scottsdale.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
Very nice. He is making a case to be in the mix.
By far he is the top talent in that league.
 

Jntg4

Fire Forum Moderator
Donator
Joined:
Apr 26, 2010
Posts:
26,017
Liked Posts:
3,297
Location:
Minnesota
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  2. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Fire
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Chicago State Cougars
  2. DePaul Blue Demons
  3. Illinois-Chicago Flames
  4. Loyola Ramblers
  5. Northern Illinois Huskies
  6. Northwestern Wildcats
Lost first game of season 9-7, now a 7-1-1 record, I'd say we're still in good shape.
 

JosMin

Entirely too much tuna
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Nov 22, 2011
Posts:
8,201
Liked Posts:
3,272
Location:
Jeffersonville, Indiana
Can I just throw it out there that my body is so, so, so ready for Baez, Bryant and Almora <3

#wet
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/20384/qa-cubs-prospect-kris-bryant

Q&A: Cubs prospect Kris Bryant
By Jesse Rogers | ESPNChicago.com


Editor’s note: The sooner the Chicago Cubs hire a new manager the sooner he can get a look at the team’s top prospects. That’s what Jesse Rogers is doing this week as he takes in a few days of Arizona Fall League action, starting off with an interview with Chicago’s first-round draft pick Kris Bryant.

MESA, Ariz. -- Last year’s No. 2 overall pick in the draft, Kris Bryant, is off to a hot start having won player of the week honors in the first week of the fall season while narrowly missing the honor in Week 2.

After a 1-for-2 day with two walks and two runs scored in a 9-6 Mesa win over Surprise on Monday, Bryant, one of the Chicago Cubs’ top prospects, is hitting .429 with four home runs and 12 RBI. The latter two stats lead all hitters in the league.

What was the transition like from college to the pros? Has it been a whirlwind meeting so many new people?

Kris Bryant: Everybody has been so great. I didn’t know if they would look at me different being the No. 2 pick. Everybody welcomed me with open arms. Really cool people here.

You’re off to such a hot start here and also hit well for the Cubs after you were drafted. Are you prepared for some struggles at some point?

KB: Summer ball my freshman year I went to the Cape [Cod league] and didn’t do well at all. That was good for me to go through. I know I’m going to go through struggles, and I’ll think back to that time at the Cape Cod League or my first day in Boise this year.

This game is built around failure, which makes it fun. Success tastes so much better after failure.

Anthony Rizzo likes to say “see the ball, hit the ball” when he talks hitting. Is it that simple for guys that have the talent?

KB: When you’re up in the box you want to keep it as simple as possible, so “see the ball, hit the ball” is a very good thought. I think some different things, like keep my hands above the ball or try to hit the ball right back up the middle. The more good things you do the better the results will be.

What has been the key to your success to this point?

KB: My family has always been there by my side guiding me the right way. College is a really good experience. I think you should have to go to college. Kind of like the NBA or football; you can’t go right to it. It makes you grow up and do things on your own. If you go from high school to this it would be a wake-up call. College taught me how to deal with a lot of things, like the fans and the media and how to act.

Is there anyone you emulate as a hitter?

KB: Since I widened my stance out in college I never really emulated anyone, but I guess as far as who I looked like, maybe Evan Longoria. Other people say Troy Glaus. I guess any third baseman that’s big. I’ve heard Mark McGwire. [Laughs] I don’t think so.

As the No. 2 pick in the draft, you signed for a lot of money. What was that like getting your first check as a professional.

KB: I got myself a car. That’s what everyone does, I guess. It’s cool to get yourself something after 18 years of really hard work. And now my parents don’t have to worry about me, so that’s good, too. My schooling at USD [University of San Diego] really helped in terms of handling money and all that stuff.

Everyone wants to know two things: When you’ll be playing at Wrigley Field? And at what position? Let’s start with second question. Are you too big for third base?

KB: I don’t think so. I’m a pretty athletic big guy. I’ve been playing third base for a while. It’s normal for me. I’m just taking as many ground balls as I can. If they move me off I’ll play my best wherever they put me. Right now I like third base.

I heard they were going to put me in the outfield, but it hasn’t happened yet. I played it a little at school.

And as for making it to the majors?

KB: I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about it, but it’s easy for me to stay in the moment. I learned that in college. Before every game we had a team brief session and it would just be about staying in the moment. Forget about school, money or problems off the field. I’ve continued those ways and that’s helped me.

So where do you think you’ll start next season?

KB: High-A or Double-A? I guess it just depends on how I do out here and in spring. There’s some good third basemen, I’m new to this whole process. I still consider myself very much a rookie. I’ll go where they tell me.

How much of the chatter do you hear in regards to yourself and some of your teammates, even here in Arizona, being the players that will lead the Cubs to some better days?

KB: I don’t hear much. I just got Twitter after the draft. They [fans] tell me nothing but great things, so that’s cool. You want fans that will be there no matter what you do. We realize there are good people coming up and not just the ones here. There are some good players that have chances to be stars. The future has some bright things coming.
 

patg006

New member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
1,413
Liked Posts:
986
Location:
Chicago
I doubt they will move him. Jackson is a known and he is coming in with a fat contract and low value. Shark is still under 2 years of control and could be flipped.

Jackson would have to pitch good enough to push a 3.50 ERA get his WHIP in the 1.25 range and get over 14 wins to have resale value at the end of the year. Even then the Cubs would have to eat some of the deal.

What I would do here in their situation:

1: Feild offers for Shark and get involved in talks with Tanaka and Johnson if A.A. lets him go. Kick the tires on Ubaldo because most likely he opts out and becomes the #1 targeted arm.

2: Ink Baker to a incentive laden deal. Keep Grimm and Carlos V. in long relief as back up.

3: If I can find a taker on Shark then ink a deal with J.J. I expect him to bounce back after getting bone spurs removed.


Now if Baker decides to go elsewhere and the Pads cut Richardson swipe him up as a 2nd LHP in the rotation.

What ever they do do not trade up for a SP unless the other team will center the deal around Soler or Almora. Baez and Bryant are untouchable. Price is the only one worth going for then.

Love it, you're using your brain.

1) I'd hold Shark and watch him up value hopefully in the first couple months. He'd be worth more.

2) Baker may come back, I'd try to guilt him. He'd owe it to the Cubs after stealing 5 mil. But he seems too primed to be a Yankee next year. Cheap, #5 starter, and meets teh Yanks cost cutting, effective and playoff desirable ways. I'm expecting the Cubs, Twins, and Yanks to be his top 3. Just hope a grade B (hopefully) FA status for the pick. Get something.

3) Josh Johnson will come back to the NL. But I don't know where. I'd take him here.

4) If the cost for David Price was Soler and Almora as the centerpieces, then do it.

5) Tanaka will be a bidding war. I expect the cubs to fall (on their faces) well short, like not even in the top 7 and he's got a top 5 only.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,840
Liked Posts:
19,210
Love it, you're using your brain.

1) I'd hold Shark and watch him up value hopefully in the first couple months. He'd be worth more.

2) Baker may come back, I'd try to guilt him. He'd owe it to the Cubs after stealing 5 mil. But he seems too primed to be a Yankee next year. Cheap, #5 starter, and meets teh Yanks cost cutting, effective and playoff desirable ways. I'm expecting the Cubs, Twins, and Yanks to be his top 3. Just hope a grade B (hopefully) FA status for the pick. Get something.

3) Josh Johnson will come back to the NL. But I don't know where. I'd take him here.

4) If the cost for David Price was Soler and Almora as the centerpieces, then do it.

5) Tanaka will be a bidding war. I expect the cubs to fall (on their faces) well short, like not even in the top 7 and he's got a top 5 only.


Give up Almora and/or Soler to get a high priced David Price one year before he's a FA, in a year we aren't contending? That flies in the face of what this regime has been doing. I can't see it.
 

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
Give up Almora and/or Soler to get a high priced David Price one year before he's a FA, in a year we aren't contending? That flies in the face of what this regime has been doing. I can't see it.

Also, the asking price for David Price is going to be astronomical. We saw what the Cubs had to give for Garza and what Texas gave for a half year rental pitcher in Garza.

Now double that as far as talent is concerned to the Rays because that is what they do and how they work. When the Cubs are established and have a surplus of talent, then and only then do you make a move like that. The Cubs do not have a surplus yet.

They need to have a top 5 organization in the minors with Baez, Bryant, Hendricks, Edwards and a few others already up before you make a move. Depleting the farm now is not wise and counter-productive. I don't care who the pitcher or player is.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,019
Liked Posts:
2,779
Location:
San Diego
[video]http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:9864483[/video]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top