Jim Hendry is full of fail

[The Bandit]

The point I was trying to make is that Johnathan Singleton is probably the best possible piece that a team might trade for him. If the Yankees want to trade Jesus Montero for Sean Marshall, then of course Jim Hendry is dumb for not taking it. Teams aren't going to give up every day players or starters that are close to being ready. They are going to trade guys that have the upside and potential to do it but that is the most you will get.

Lets look at this situation a different way. I use Singleton as the example because it is one of the few rumors about packages being offered out there right now for a setup guy. Singleton was an 8th round pick that played his way into the 39th prospect up to this point, if he keeps hitting like he has he will drop a fair bit. The Cubs could keep Sean Marshall for the two years on the chance that they might be get better next year with better health and more development time for their prospects, and if that doesn't happen they can let him go for at least Type B compensation which would net them a supplemental pick.

So tell me why again I should give up 2 years of Sean Marshall's production and a sandwich pick for a top prospect with warts that is at least 2-3 years away from being a big leaguer.

I think I'm the only one that actually gets what your saying lol

 

[dabynsky]

I don't know. And apparently neither does Hendry since the calls "end quickly".


To just shoot down the trading of those guys is idiotic.

Bringing up SIngleton isn't an issue to me because 1. I never said I wanted him. 2. I didn't say the Cubs should do the deal blindly and 3. The overall point is Hendry isn't willing to consider moving Sean Marshall or Darwin fucking Barney and ending call quickly.

Jim Hendry says he ends the calls quickly. He didn't say that he refuses to listen to what a team has to offer.

I brought up Singleton to provide an example of what the guy we all agree has the highest trade value of the people talked about might fetch in a trade, and using that example why perhaps we shouldn't be in a rush to trade them.

I agree though neither of us know what Hendry has been offered and we don't know what the extent of the conversations were like for those players. Hendry could be putting statements out like this to try to force teams to start making offers on guys that exactly make a little coin. Notice that all the players that he has said aren't being moved are guys that make next to nothing. It is all just speculation at this point, and until we see what happens at this deadline it is impossible to know what Hendry did and did not do this year.

 

[FirstTimer]

The point I was trying to make is that Johnathan Singleton is probably the best possible piece that a team might trade for him. If the Yankees want to trade Jesus Montero for Sean Marshall, then of course Jim Hendry is dumb for not taking it. Teams aren't going to give up every day players or starters that are close to being ready. They are going to trade guys that have the upside and potential to do it but that is the most you will get.

Lets look at this situation a different way. I use Singleton as the example because it is one of the few rumors about packages being offered out there right now for a setup guy. Singleton was an 8th round pick that played his way into the 39th prospect up to this point, if he keeps hitting like he has he will drop a fair bit. The Cubs could keep Sean Marshall for the two years on the chance that they might be get better next year with better health and more development time for their prospects, and if that doesn't happen they can let him go for at least Type B compensation which would net them a supplemental pick.

So tell me why again I should give up 2 years of Sean Marshall's production and a sandwich pick for a top prospect with warts that is at least 2-3 years away from being a big leaguer.

Because it very possibly makes you a better team in the long term. Meanwhile Marshall's 2-3 years of production will do you very little good and be rather meaningless because the Cubs aren't going anywhere in the short term.

 

[FirstTimer]

Jim Hendry says he ends the calls quickly. .

Which is Special person.

 

[Jntg4]

To be honest, I'd like to keep Marshall and Barney anyway...

 

[dabynsky]

Because it very possibly makes you a better team in the long term. Meanwhile Marshall's 2-3 years of production will do you very little good and be rather meaningless because the Cubs aren't going anywhere in the short term.

But I could potentially get a better player with the sandwich pick than the guy that I get in a trade. If we are talking about things that make a team better in the long run, it is about as likely that the Cubs drafted player could do as well as the type of player we are likely to get back in a trade. And as an extra bonus I get the short term boost of actually having a cheap, effective reliever for two years.

 

[dabynsky]

But thats not the point anyone else was trying to make. I thought we were talking about Sean Marshall being untouchable. I did not think we were talking about Sean Marshall for Jonathan Singleton. I did not think we were assigning trade value to Sean Marshall, with the ceiling being Jonathan Singleton.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. I'm just not quite understanding its place in this conversation. Whom you think the Phillies would offer for Sean Marshall is irrelevant, frankly.

Okay so then the only compliant everyone has is that Hendry said these guys were "untouchable." The fact that none of these guys likely will net us anything that significantly improves this team in the short term or long term has no part to play in this conversation.

As I said we don't know what Hendry is telling other teams when they call. He says the calls stop pretty quickly. That doesn't mean that as soon as a team calls up and asks about Sean Marshall that Hendry hangs up on them. Also notice the fact that Hendry has been talking about the guys that make little to no salary. Saying things like this in public could be trying to get teams to finally start talking about guys that actual need to be moved off the roster.

 

[dabynsky]

Jim Hendry's draft record is stellar. Hayden Simpson has been lighting it up at Peoria.

Yeah I sure hate the fact that the Cubs have two guys in the BA's top 50 prospects right now that were drafted by Tim Wilken, who is actually in charge of the amateur draft...

 

[poodski]

Yeah I sure hate the fact that the Cubs have two guys in the BA's top 50 prospects right now that were drafted by Tim Wilken, who is actually in charge of the amateur draft...

But but but but what have they done at the MLB level!

 

[dabynsky]

Those are two separate "arguments". It would be like an NFL team forfeiting its late round draft picks, because none of those guys likely will significantly improve the team.

Okay so Hendry is likely right to not trade these guys because more than likely, based on all evidence that we have, it isn't worth it to trade them. But he shouldn't say that he won't trade them, however, because why? Do you really think that if a team absolutely had to have Sean Marshall and were going to overpay that Hendry would still say no.

Look if Hendry is really just instantly shooting down any team that makes an offer for Sean Marshall then you guys are right that is dumb. However, we don't know that is the case. And I think it is valid to point out that the odds of the Cubs getting a difference maker at the big league level for Sean Marshall is about as likely as the Cubs contending next season.

 

[Rick]

I don't mind calling Sean Marshall untouchable. I like solid left handed pitchers and he's been as valuable as anyone in the bullpen.

As far as Barney goes, I'd deal him in a heartbeat if the right trade came along

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

I just don't like the idea of trading someone with less than an entire season of MLB experience/ entire season on a team.

Right now, Barney is an average 2B. If he could draw more walks, I'd call him good.

Unless we have a better option to replace him with, why get rid of him if we're not sure what he's going to do?

Same goes for Garza, to some extent. He's been pitching lights out, minus a lot of walks. He's just not getting the run support. Why trade him if we know he's got good stuff and can be a part of this team for awhile? Makes no sense.

We need to hang onto guys that are proven, like Marshall, Garza, and Castro. And give guys that have a little ways to go, like Cashner and Barney, some time to develop.

 

[dabynsky]

LOL, now you are sticking up for Tim Wilken? Wow.

Am I wrong that he has drafted two top 50 prospects in the system right now...

And by the logic you are using, we shouldn't hope the Cubs get draft picks because they might make bad picks. Then they also shouldn't make trades since Jim Hendry might make a bad one like trading for Juan Pierre.

 

[Rick]

Am I wrong that he has drafted two top 50 prospects in the system right now...

And by the logic you are using, we shouldn't hope the Cubs get draft picks because they might make bad picks. Then they also shouldn't make trades since Jim Hendry might make a bad one like trading for Juan Pierre.

Yeah that trade was no good since they kept Pierre for only one season. Even though I wouldn't consider Ricky Nolasco great, he's been serviceable for the most part in Florida. He would have been a nice back end rotation guy for the Cubs had they not involved him in that trade.

 

[dabynsky]

LOL, now you are sticking up for Tim Wilken? Wow.

Baseball America's Top Cubs Prospects 2005 - 2010 - ChicagoCubsOnline.com

You threw this article in here after you posted just that terribly insightful statement.

I wonder if you actually read the article because it has quotes like this:

The Cubs' system has shown a lot of improvement since the hiring of Tim Wilken in December of 2005. Several prospects have either made it to Wrigley to help out the big league club or used in trades to acquire proven Major League talent.

Wilken has drafted the following players that were on the list for 2010:
Andrew Cashner, Chris Carpenter, Brett Jackson, Tyler Colvin, Ryan Flaherty, DJ LaMahieu, and Trey McNutt. Yes there have been some spectuclar misses (I challenge you to find a scouting director without some), but the system has turned out more position players in the past couple of seasons than it has the past twenty years.

 

[brett05]

Of course it is the GM's job to make the organization better, and I never said we shouldn't be unhappy that Hendry is likely making decisions more to serve self-interest at this point. However, I just think it is silly to question the man's intelligence, over these statements, when the explanation is pretty clearly that it does Hendry no good to make moves that benefit this team 2-3 years down the road.

Then wouldn't that be a problem with ownership?

 

[dabynsky]

Then wouldn't that be a problem with ownership?

The problem was letting a guy that was likely to be a lame duck run this team at the beginning of the season. Once they allowed Hendry to run this team this year, then it was likely to play out this way. I am hopeful that this talk about Gillick is real because you would see an entire organizational shift take place at that point.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Of course it is the GM's job to make the organization better, and I never said we shouldn't be unhappy that Hendry is likely making decisions more to serve self-interest at this point. However, I just think it is silly to question the man's intelligence, over these statements, when the explanation is pretty clearly that it does Hendry no good to make moves that benefit this team 2-3 years down the road.

i actually disagree with this...sure it may not benefit hendry directly if he is not on the team...but if he makes moves that benefit the cubs organization long term, then when people notice these team improvements, hendry will get credit because he was the one that led to those improvements

 

[brett05]

I am hopeful that this talk about Gillick is real because you would see an entire organizational shift take place at that point.

Uhm, as a Sox fan I hope that rumor goes the same way as the Mark Cuban for owner

 

[dabynsky]

i actually disagree with this...sure it may not benefit hendry directly if he is not on the team...but if he makes moves that benefit the cubs organization long term, then when people notice these team improvements, hendry will get credit because he was the one that led to those improvements

I can't think of a time where that has resulted in a guy getting another job down the road or much acclaim. I am honestly asking if anyone can. I mean the closest thing I can come up to it was the whole situation with Dale Tallon/Stan Bowman with the Blackhawks. But Tallon left with a team that made it to the Western Conference Finals. I can't think of a time where a guy that was fired with a last place team later gets a ton of recognition and job opportunities for setting the team up for success after he was fired.