Jim McMahon was he good or over-rated ? If Mitch is healthy will be way better.

[tony053087]

The defense was even better in 86 stat wise and they couldn't repeat without Jimmy Mac. Shit even Dent, Wilson, and Hampton said they could've won multiple superbowls if he was healthy.

 

[jive]

Jimmy Mac was a good quarterback for a little while, but not a great one. He got by on the ability to read defenses and call audibles. He really excelled at that, and it covered his mediocre arm. He had decent touch on the deep ball, but they were all rainbows, not bullets. He wasn't a treasure trove of arm talent, but he was a good leader and strategist. McMahon was a decent runner in the beginning of his career, but after injuries, he couldn't do that anymore. However, after the 85 season, he was done.

It wasn't just Jimmy Mac's injuries that caused us to miss more Superbowls. It was bad coaching decisions. Alot of people forget that Tomczak and Fuller were undefeated in 86 when they took over for McMahon. But for some reason I don't remember, Flutie started against the Redskins in the playoffs and sucked it up causing us to make an early playoff exit. We could have won that game with Tomczak, and probably made it to a Superbowl. Still pissed about that one.

Then in 87, McMahon got hurt, but Tomczak filled in pretty well and led us to a winning record. But, instead of Mikey T, it was Jimmy Mac in the playoffs against the Skins. Jimmy Mac wasn't himself, and he stunk it up. There were interceptions and sacks, left and right. We could have won that game with an average manage-the-game type QB, and better special teams on a single play. 88 was basically a repeat, except Tomczak started against Philly and won us a playoff game even though he stunk it up. However, Jimmy Mac started against San Fran and stunk it up, as well as Mikey T. 88 was the last window of the Superbowl team, and we stunk it up in 89. That was a tough year, coming down from such a dominant run.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

It wasn't just Jimmy Mac's injuries that caused us to miss more Superbowls. It was bad coaching decisions. Alot of people forget that Tomczak and Fuller were undefeated in 86 when they took over for McMahon. But for some reason I don't remember, Flutie started against the Redskins in the playoffs and sucked it up causing us to make an early playoff exit. We could have won that game with Tomczak, and probably made it to a Superbowl. Still pissed about that one.

Fuller, who was always terrible, lost both of his starts, which is pretty remarkable considering the team was 14-2. Tomczak, Flutie & McMahon combined to go 14-0, while Fuller was 0-2.

I can't really defend Flutie's playoff performance, but I will say that Tomczak's 1986 performance was almost as remarkable as Fuller's in some sense...he was 7-0 as a starter while throwing 2 TDs vs. 10 INTs with a 50.2 QB rating. You get a 40 QB rating if you throw incompletions on every pass play, so Tomczak undoubtedly sucked.

Flutie had the best stats (80.1 rating) in limited playing time, and had a nice win against Dallas to end the year. Ditka went with the relative "hot hand" of Flutie in the postseason. I would say the coaching error wasn't in starting Flutie against the Redskins in the playoffs, it was that Ditka didn't just install Flutie as the starter halfway through the regular season to get him more playing time in the offense.

Then in 87, McMahon got hurt, but Tomczak filled in pretty well and led us to a winning record.

To say that Tomczak "filled in pretty well" is an exaggeration. Again, Tomczak undoubtedly sucked...5 TDs in 6 starts against 10 INTs with a 62.0 rating. He went 4-2 for a team that finished 11-4..."winning record" that included a 41-0 loss to the Niners...good job. Bears probably would have been better off playing Jim Harbaugh in retrospect.

But, instead of Mikey T, it was Jimmy Mac in the playoffs against the Skins. Jimmy Mac wasn't himself, and he stunk it up. There were interceptions and sacks, left and right. We could have won that game with an average manage-the-game type QB, and better special teams on a single play.

The Bears with Tomczak were terrible at the end of the regular season. They went 1-2 with a combined score of 27-78. The win was a putrid 6-3 snoozefest against a 5-10 Raiders team. I understand why Ditka went with an injured McMahon in the postseason...he was desperate. Perhaps the Bears defeat Washington with an average QB performance, but to imply that Tomczak was "average" is absurd.

 

[Bearly]

Ya but it was fun watching him trying to figure out where to throw it and get the shit beat out of him.

 

[mcmahon85]

Over-rated?!? Show some god damn respect son!

Let me know the next time you see someone do that^ to Brady or Rodgers. As Omlet would say, nancy boys are playing flag football now a days. Comparing anything today to McMahon's era is pointless.

Yep tore his Rotator Cuff.

 

[FirstTimer]

The defense was even better in 86 stat wise and they couldn't repeat without Jimmy Mac. Shit even Dent, Wilson, and Hampton said they could've won multiple superbowls if he was healthy.

That's typical wishful thinking....

 

[run and shoot]

Please his stats were not that great before the Charles Martin injury-------he was carried by the defense and Walter. he was a mirage at the right place at the right time. I appreciate him playing good in the Super bowl but he was very fragile. I don't feel that injury ruined him he was already on the down side.

Please his stats were not that great

winning trumps "stats" in my book. McMahon was a winner.

he was carried by the defense and Walter

Really?? Have you ever looked at where the Bear "O" was ranked during the SB season??

 

[FirstTimer]

winning trumps "stats" in my book. McMahon was a winner.




Really?? Have you ever looked at where the Bear "O" was ranked during the SB season??

*Checks notes* The passing offense was 26th in attempts, 20th in yards, and 22nd in TD's. McMahon was pretty efficient that year(7th in passer rating) but his impact on the offense was minimal. McMahon was more efficient in 1984 and 1987 and the offense was worse. 1985 was the one outlier in that McMahon was pretty healthy and pretty efficient. So the passing game sat in the low 20's rather than the bottom of the league.

 

[mac bear]

*Checks notes* The passing offense was 26th in attempts, 20th in yards, and 22nd in TD's. McMahon was pretty efficient that year(7th in passer rating) but his impact on the offense was minimal. McMahon was more efficient in 1984 and 1987 and the offense was worse. 1985 was the one outlier in that McMahon was pretty healthy and pretty efficient. So the passing game sat in the low 20's rather than the bottom of the league.

Nice comeback... ‘checks stats’.

Putting this thread to bed, McMahon did not win the analytics battle, but his heart and soul won most of Chicago’s as well.

1985 was an outlier—particularly with regards to Super Bowl wins in modern era and McMahon was a huge and definitive part of that era.

Period.

Now, sleep well, and let’s cheers a new, and different era with a QB who won’t have to plead with his Ditka-torially conservative coach to ‘put him in and play his own game’.

Here’s to the future and a hurricane of a Bears force whipping through Miami this weekend.


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[FirstTimer]

Nice comeback... ‘checks stats’.

Putting this thread to bed, McMahon did not win the analytics battle, but his heart and soul won most of Chicago’s as well.

1985 was an outlier—particularly with regards to Super Bowl wins in modern era and McMahon was a huge and definitive part of that era.

Period.

Now, sleep well, and let’s cheers a new, and different era with a QB who won’t have to plead with his Ditka-torially conservative coach to ‘put him in and play his own game’.

Here’s to the future and a hurricane of a Bears force whipping through Miami this weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Outside of Chicago...he really isn't.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Outside of Chicago...he really isn't.

Not sure if he's referring to his play or just culturally.

 

[FirstTimer]

Not sure if he's referring to his play or just culturally.

Either way...culturally outside of Chicago no one really cares...his play...as a QB in the 80's...how was he a huge part of it?

 

[mac bear]

Either way...culturally outside of Chicago no one really cares...his play...as a QB in the 80's...how was he a huge part of it?

Wild how true that is.

I wonder who, on other teams, have similar ‘iconic’-ish roles for their little worlds/cities.


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[bamainatlanta]

Either way...culturally outside of Chicago no one really cares...his play...as a QB in the 80's...how was he a huge part of it?

His play could have been replaced.
Moving down south in 93, I was surprised they knew who he was. Even saw Jimmy Mac jerseys and the same people didn't even know who sweetness was.

 

[mac bear]

Either way...culturally outside of Chicago no one really cares...his play...as a QB in the 80's...how was he a huge part of it?

Didn’t answer. To me, he was everything. I have his book, and just dug his candour and how he led. His head butting the linemen (probably concussing himself many times) and enthusiasm were infectious.

When we lost him, in ‘86... we never climbed back.


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[Rory Sparrow]

I wonder who, on other teams, have similar ‘iconic’-ish roles for their little worlds/cities.

I dominate the CCS social circles, if that counts.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

McMahon was a good QB for that team. Ultimately, he was just too soft and egocentric to be a great QB for that team.

 

[Tariq]

Over-rated?!? Show some god damn respect son!

Let me know the next time you see someone do that^ to Brady or Rodgers. As Omlet would say, nancy boys are playing flag football now a days. Comparing anything today to McMahon's era is pointless.

Jim McMahon was definitely overrated. He declined as a passer before Charles Martin gave him the rock bottom. The 1986 season was perfect example of his decline. McMahon would start 6 of the first 12 games in 1986. Jim started off the season with 5 TD passes to only 3 INTs. Then Jim proceeded to to throw 6 straight INTs without a single TD pass in his final 3 games of the season. By my count, that adds up to 5 TD passes with 9 INTs for the 1986 season. Like I said, this was before the Charles Martin incident

 

[Bearly]

It wasn't just Jimmy Mac's injuries that caused us to miss more Superbowls. It was bad coaching decisions. Alot of people forget that Tomczak and Fuller were undefeated in 86 when they took over for McMahon. But for some reason I don't remember, Flutie started against the Redskins in the playoffs and sucked it up causing us to make an early playoff exit. We could have won that game with Tomczak, and probably made it to a Superbowl. Still pissed about that one.

We lost 2 regular season games in 86. McMahon didn't play in either. Was Ditka playing QB? We could have won that playoff game with Flutie just as easily as the other 2 backups had the team supported the move instead of making it more important than the game itself. It was against a playoff team and we also could easily have lost with Fuller or Tomczak. Guess which QB was starting in the only loss of 1985? Here's a hint. It wasn't McMahon.

Dan Hampton disagrees with those that think McMahon couldn't have helped win more SBs. He hated Jim but knew how much he meant to that team. Even with what may be the best D in history, you need good QB play unless you're very lucky.

 

[Bearly]

Jim McMahon was definitely overrated. He declined as a passer before Charles Martin gave him the rock bottom. The 1986 season was perfect example of his decline. McMahon would start 6 of the first 12 games in 1986. Jim started off the season with 5 TD passes to only 3 INTs. Then Jim proceeded to to throw 6 straight INTs without a single TD pass in his final 3 games of the season. By my count, that adds up to 5 TD passes with 9 INTs for the 1986 season. Like I said, this was before the Charles Martin incident

He shouldn't have been playing at all. He had a shoulder injury long before Martin tore him up. He played 5 other games all year before Martin tore him up in the season finale. He threw more than 13 passes only once due to the injury. He toughed it out because even with his inability to throw, he still gave the team it's best chance to win. He was smart and instilled confidence in the O.