Joe Maddon's Job Security

[brett05]

Nobody saying he had a "bad" season at managing..

Saying alot of his what the hell are you doing type of decisions this year hasn't worked out as much this year as it has in the past..

The record is based more on the talent he has on the field more then the decisions he makes..

Ill put it this way...

I think it fair to say that the talent/players has won the majority of the 87 wins to date despite some of Joe questionable ingame decisions and that some to most of Joe ingame decisions has cost them from winning more games to date..

Can we agree with that?

Worth stating again, Managers minimize mistakes, they don't actually contribute positively to the playing of the game.

 

[fatbeard]

Worth stating again, Managers minimize mistakes, they don't actually contribute positively to the playing of the game.

I don't think it's quite this simple, but then again we'll never be able to quantify the things that good managers do in between games that contribute positively to in-game outcomes.

 

[fatbeard]

*and I think Maddon's second half records are a pretty compelling data point.

 

[brett05]

I don't think it's quite this simple, but then again we'll never be able to quantify the things that good managers do in between games that contribute positively to in-game outcomes.

Oh, I am not saying that the stuff off the field doesn't help. But all that does is help the player play to the most of the ability, it doesn't actually contribute to actual play/wins. It helps minimize mistakes.

 

[brett05]

I've stated it before, managers that do their jobs perfectly have no affect on the game. Those that do not, hurt the team.

 

[kapooncha]

The funny thing is all the Maddon butt kissers wouldn't exist had the Cubs not won the 2016 WS in spite of Joey.

 

[brett05]

The funny thing is all the Maddon butt kissers wouldn't exist had the Cubs not won the 2016 WS in spite of Joey.

It's unlikely all this just happened in Chicago. I am sure Joe was like this in Tampa too

 

[fatbeard]

The funny thing is all the Maddon butt kissers wouldn't exist had the Cubs not won the 2016 WS in spite of Joey.

In a strong field of stupid comments by you, this one stands alone.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I've stated it before, managers that do their jobs perfectly have no affect on the game. Those that do not, hurt the team.

I think it's more nuanced than that, but I don't disagree in principal. One thing that I think Joe does, that his critics despise, is use matchups to mitigate deficiencies. When he's missing key players he uses those matchups even more. Ultimately the players either perform or they don't but he tries to put the right guys in the right places to succeed rather than just replace a better guy that's hurt with, say a near replacement level player as we used to see a lot in the game's past. I stand by the fact that if this team wins 95 games that it's Maddon's best year of managing in Chicago, just ahead of the job he did in 2015. He may not have won the team a ton of games, but he sure kept them from losing some.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The flaw in Brett05's argument is that game managing for a couple of hours over the course of 162 games is only a portion of what the manager does actually managing the team. That's the difference between the Cubs and the Nationals and why the end of the superstar manager being near is a joke.

 

[anotheridiot]

"We are not going to have an off day for 30 days, so instead of resting one regular per game, I am going to rest three regulars each day over two games against the last place Cincinatti Reds because of the schedule".

This team needs to keep the pedal to the medal, Maddon has given away so many games they would have clinched by now and been resting as much as he wanted.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The flaw in Brett05's argument is that game managing for a couple of hours over the course of 162 games is only a portion of what the manager does actually managing the team. That's the difference between the Cubs and the Nationals and why the end of the superstar manager being near is a joke.

That's why I said I agreed in principle but that it was nuanced. The Manager doesn't play so when you look at it as a season of individual events, no the manager does not impact those games much. If you look big picture though the manager matters a whole lot. For instance, one of his star players has a nagging injury but insists he can play and the doctors have not barred him from it. A good manager might sit the player anyway because he knows the player and senses he's bullshitting some. Even if they lose that one game he may have just save 2 or 3 or 4 or what have you. The examples are endless. In this day and age the most important part of that job is managing nwith a small "m" and that means reading people and knowing how to get them to respond.

 

[brett05]

The flaw in Brett05's argument is that game managing for a couple of hours over the course of 162 games is only a portion of what the manager does actually managing the team. That's the difference between the Cubs and the Nationals and why the end of the superstar manager being near is a joke.

It's not a flaw, and it's not the only part, but it's the largest part.

 

[Parade_Rain]

It's not a flaw, and it's not the only part, but it's the largest part.

It's a flaw...a very noticeable flaw.

 

[CSF77]

Good point on the Nats. Under Williams they under performed. Baker play off team. Now under perform.

Injury is always there so that is a BS excuse.

Managers always factor. If they didn’t then they could toss anyone out there.

 

[brett05]

It's a flaw...a very noticeable flaw.

Think what you need to

 

[brett05]

Good point on the Nats. Under Williams they under performed. Baker play off team. Now under perform.

Injury is always there so that (no) excuse.

Managers always factor. If they didn’t then they could toss anyone out there.

no one argues that they don't matter. They minimize mistakes is what many myself included will argue.

 

[Parade_Rain]

no one argues that they don't matter. They minimize mistakes is what many myself included will argue.

Minimizing mistakes is a small part of managing. That's what you aren't comprehending. They impact the team pre-game, post-game, on the flight, Spring Training, attitude, confidence, etc.

 

[brett05]

Minimizing mistakes is a small part of managing. That's what you aren't comprehending. They impact the team pre-game, post-game, on the flight, Spring Training, attitude, confidence, etc.

All of which contributes to minimizing mistakes. That's what you are not comprehending.

 

[Parade_Rain]

All of which contributes to minimizing mistakes. That's what you are not comprehending.

That's laughable.