Jon Lester: Where Does He Rank Amongst MLB Starters V.3.4.1

[brett05]

Lol you are reaching now.

It was your words not mine. :lol:

 

[Parade_Rain]

Still, JJ's posts are whoa. And there are others like that on this side of the board. Not saying there aren't any on the South Side either.

Sure. Most of those posts are made by non-Cub fans though.

 

[brett05]

Sure. Most of those posts are made by non-Cub fans though.

I dunno

 

[chibears55]

I think we can all pretty much identify those who can have an actual conversation and share knowledge on topics..
And those who are just here to stir the pot no matter what team they like. ..

 

[Shawon0Meter]

Glavine was a #2 to Maddux. Smoltz was the #3. So does that mean Glavine was not #1 quality? No but he was at his best as the #2 guy.

My opinion is they need a guy like Max as the ace with Lester as the #2 and Arrieta as the #3. That makes the Cubs a force. Right now they have a rotation that plays well in the season.

All this means is the 2nd best pitcher in baseball would be better off behind the 1st best pitcher in baseball and so on and so on. Lester is still more than a number 2 in the real world of major league baseball.

 

[CSF77]

All this means is the 2nd best pitcher in baseball would be better off behind the 1st best pitcher in baseball and so on and so on. Lester is still more than a number 2 in the real world of major league baseball.

Are you saying that you would not want Max as a #1 and Jon as a #2?

I stated that right now: Lester/Arrieta/Hammels/Wood/Hendricks is a reg season rotation. A .500 one IMO but not a play off rotation.

Lester would be going up against:

LAD: Kershaw
SF: Bumgardner
STL: Wainwright
WAS: Strasburg

Pit IMO lacks a legit ACE right now. Reds have a legit ACE but them getting in is another story.

So out of those teams I would say he would stack up against Bumgardner (unless he becomes this suprer play off performer) and Strasburg (Ditto) Wainwright and Kershaw would be the pick on those series.

Now as a #2 he stacks up better against these teams. WAS is deep so there is little drop off with Zimmerman. Dodgers have Grenkie who I believe is a solid match up for Lester. STL Lynn or Wacha..I'd put my cash on Lester here. SFG depends if Cain comes back. Peavy/Hudson/Lincecum all are coming in with questions. I would not pick any over Lester in a match up.

So ya I do believe Lester and the Cubs would be better off if they invested into Max.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Any team that goes .500 with Lester, Hamels and Arrieta as your 1-3 starters has a serion run production problem. Any pitcher vs. pitcher matchup boils down to who has the better offense and team defense.


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[chibears55]

Are you saying that you would not want Max as a #1 and Jon as a #2?

I stated that right now: Lester/Arrieta/Hammels/Wood/Hendricks is a reg season rotation. A .500 one IMO but not a play off rotation.

Lester would be going up against:

LAD: Kershaw
SF: Bumgardner
STL: Wainwright
WAS: Strasburg

Pit IMO lacks a legit ACE right now. Reds have a legit ACE but them getting in is another story.

So out of those teams I would say he would stack up against Bumgardner (unless he becomes this suprer play off performer) and Strasburg (Ditto) Wainwright and Kershaw would be the pick on those series.

Now as a #2 he stacks up better against these teams. WAS is deep so there is little drop off with Zimmerman. Dodgers have Grenkie who I believe is a solid match up for Lester. STL Lynn or Wacha..I'd put my cash on Lester here. SFG depends if Cain comes back. Peavy/Hudson/Lincecum all are coming in with questions. I would not pick any over Lester in a match up.

So ya I do believe Lester and the Cubs would be better off if they invested into Max.

Cubs would definitely be better off if they got scherzer. .

I mentioned when the off season started that they could afford and should go after both lester and scherzer. ..

My thinking was if they had a strong veteran rotation it would take the pressure off the kids and allow for growing pains in the first full year with them..

These kids wouldn't feel like they need to hit 3 run homers every AB and need to score 6 runs a game to win..

With a strong rotation, they could win alot of games when they struggle to score 1-2-3 runs and these kids are talented enough to where they will also have quite a few games where they score 5 or more....

With a TOR of Scherzer Lester and Arrieta even with the uncertainty of what they will get from the young core 4, they will easily be playoff contenders and who knows, these kids actually mature and improve over the season and go into the playoffs with confidence and with that TOR... anything can happen. ..

This is why i would love for the cubs to get extra aggressive and just go for it with scherzer. ...


I was wondering too if anyone else is surprised as to the lack of anything on scherzer as we head into January? I haven't heard of any offers or of any teams stating their interest ..

Are teams just shying away because they dont want to go 7/210 for him or is it just the holidays and it will get going again next week..

Even with the cubs and making some deals with maybe castillo, wood and Jackson. .

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Cubs would definitely be better off if they got scherzer. .

I mentioned when the off season started that they could afford and should go after both lester and scherzer. ..

My thinking was if they had a strong veteran rotation it would take the pressure off the kids and allow for growing pains in the first full year with them..

These kids wouldn't feel like they need to hit 3 run homers every AB and need to score 6 runs a game to win..

With a strong rotation, they could win alot of games when they struggle to score 1-2-3 runs and these kids are talented enough to where they will also have quite a few games where they score 5 or more....

With a TOR of Scherzer Lester and Arrieta even with the uncertainty of what they will get from the young core 4, they will easily be playoff contenders and who knows, these kids actually mature and improve over the season and go into the playoffs with confidence and with that TOR... anything can happen. ..

This is why i would love for the cubs to get extra aggressive and just go for it with scherzer. ...


I was wondering too if anyone else is surprised as to the lack of anything on scherzer as we head into January? I haven't heard of any offers or of any teams stating their interest ..

Are teams just shying away because they dont want to go 7/210 for him or is it just the holidays and it will get going again next week..

Even with the cubs and making some deals with maybe castillo, wood and Jackson. .

I like the way you think. The Cubs absolutely can afford Scherzer. Some of the pundits online seem to think the Cubs are favored to sign him. The reason teams have stayed away thus far is leverage. We all know Scherzer's looking for 7 yrs/30 per. Interest by any team at this price gives Scherzer instant leverage over the market. Inferior offers would only backfire so early in the process, so everyone's waiting it out in hopes that Scherzer (Boras) backs off and opens up to a figure closer to true market value. My guess is he gets 7yrs, $180MM from the Dodgers or Cubs.


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[CSF77]

Cubs should go after him. Boras also rep's Almora, Bryant and Arrieta. Dealing with him for Max could open new doors including getting Bryant playing opening day.

 

[DewsSox79]

Cubs should go after him. Boras also rep's Almora, Bryant and Arrieta. Dealing with him for Max could open new doors including getting Bryant playing opening day.

boras has clients everywhere

Do you really want the scherzer risk? It's sexy until he gets hurt and or just becomes ehhh. Than the same theo **** riders will blame theo for bad contracts just like hendry . 50 mill or so per year in salary for 2 pitchers on long term deals is just stupid. But it could happen, theo did spend in Boston. Luckily the Dodgers took his mess of 200 mil


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[chibears55]

boras has clients everywhere

Do you really want the scherzer risk? It's sexy until he gets hurt and or just becomes ehhh. Than the same theo **** riders will blame theo for bad contracts just like hendry . 50 mill or so per year in salary for 2 pitchers on long term deals is just stupid. But it could happen, theo did spend in Boston. Luckily the Dodgers took his mess of 200 mil


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Scherzer and lester are what 30 YO...

You get 4-5 yrs of TOR type pitching from them your happy.. final 2-3 yrs of deal, they become solid 3s or Avg. 2s your still happy even at that price because in 7 yrs 25-30 per will be Avg salary for most 1-3 in a rotation. ..

Key is, they need to make sure in 4- 5 yrs they have a cost controlled TOR type starter in their system to step in and to be able to either trade 1 or both lester and scherzer or move them down a spot in rotation..

 

[CSF77]

boras has clients everywhere

Do you really want the scherzer risk? It's sexy until he gets hurt and or just becomes ehhh. Than the same theo **** riders will blame theo for bad contracts just like hendry . 50 mill or so per year in salary for 2 pitchers on long term deals is just stupid. But it could happen, theo did spend in Boston. Luckily the Dodgers took his mess of 200 mil


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Try and fail is more acceptable than doing nothing.

I for one was not pissed off that they signed Sori. His results were a mixed bag. But you have to expect it.

 

[CSF77]

I think it was all of Hendry's no trades to lower the players total price and all of the back loaded deals that irked most. The trib locked up payroll and upped the value of the team which led to selling to Zell then to the Ricketts. 2008 Zell locked payroll so in 2009 Hendry had to move DeRosa, not retain Wood and trade out Marques just to open up the 10 mil that year for MB. MB took the hate for starting slow. But the real problem was A-Ram got injured and THE TEAM HAD NO PAYROLL FLEXIBILITY to fix 3B.

So MB became the fall guy as he made it easy to be that guy.

MB had a .378 OBA in 2009. No one talks about that part.



I blame Hendry for drafting shitty. What Theo and Jed did to fix the system was remarkable.