Justin Fields “BOMBSHELL” News!!!

[didshereallysaythat]

The Bears don’t know how to develop QBs.
1. Cutler was up and coming and what we do? Gave him Jamarcus Webb as LT and Hester as WR1.

They didn't get him help until 2011. Three years after he was traded to the Bears. He was damaged goods by then.

2. Mitch Trubisky. Pace drafted wrong guy but Nagy didn’t want to develop him by ignoring Mitch’s attempts to talk to him about his development.

Nagy is an asshole. He didn’t like Foles as well because Foles criticized him and his perfect playbook.

3. Fields. The Bears should’ve stuck with the game plan of starting Dalton or Foles until Fields caught up to the speed of the game and learn NFL concepts and the speed of the game.

Instead put Fields after Dalton got hurt and the O-line was subpar. Mustipher was the starting Center. That says it all.

Now you want to put Williams in the starting lineup right away. I believe he has to earn it not give it to him. Russell Wilson snatched that starting QB gig in Seattle by out playing Flynn in mini camps, training camp, and preseason.


The cream rises to the top with competition.

The Bears are definitely going to be asking Williams how he would deal with QB competition and potentially sitting his rookie year to learn.

 

[Myk]

Once I'm going to take the Kinder approach.

Please explain to the class how me telling you that you need to keep your mind open to the possibility that Ryan Poles trades the #1 pick AND Justin Fields is me "letting my desire to keep fields clouding my judgment" - given that in that scenario, the Bears end up with neither Caleb Williams nor Justin Fields?

Please explain it and be very detailed. No using generic cop-outs like "common sense" - be specific.

Because between the two of us in that scenario the only one who seems to be getting upset is you. I'm the one who proposed the scenario where the Bears end up with neither quarterback. Logic would dictate the only reason that would upset you is you want one of them and given your weird attack on me over Justin fields, it's reasonable to assume that you are attached to the other quarterback.

I hate to break it to you but it could very well be that the Bears internally determined Caleb Williams to be too high risk in terms of personality and ability to mentally handle the NFL, regardless of the media constantly glazing the prospect. He may also be done with Justin Fields. In which case, it remains a possibility, and that's all I'm saying is it is a logical possibility, that he gets the haul, still trades fields, and takes one of the other quarterbacks.

I don't see how that's a controversial take when using critical thinking, nor do I understand how such a scenario would paint me as someone who is " letting my desire for them to keep Fields cloud my judgment" - rather, it feels like you are simply projecting instead....

Because you know trading Fields and the #1 to get Hartman in the 7th isn't going to happen? Because you know if we get rid of the #1 to get a long shot we're not getting rid of Fields?

The only way we get rid of Fields is because we're not moving off #1 to get someone better. We're not getting rid of Fields and moving down 3 spots because we don't like Williams to risk the teams we put ahead of us also not liking Williams.
And we're not getting a haul to move down a few spots so obviously your plan is to get a long shot in exchange for a haul in which case it only makes sense that Fields stays while the long shot is developed.

Hate to break it to you but I don't give a shit who the QB the Bears take at #1 is the same applies. If they're getting a QB it's likely with #1. If they're not getting a QB with #1 they're riding with Fields. They're not risking the QB they want to gain 800 points worth of picks to put 2 QB needy teams in front of them.

Bears could say their #1 and #2 prospects are equal and not care which one they get and let DC make the decision for them but that trade is a mid 2nd at best. We'd have to give DC our #1 and #111 for their #2 and #36.
If Bears equal choices are Williams and Maye and then DC takes Penix they could trade again to let NE make the decision but neither or both equals a haul.
After that you're adding too many variables, space and QB needy teams. Nobody does that. If they do they're likely losing their jobs because it doesn't work out as planned. And like I said if that is Poles' plan he should lose his job as soon as he says that's his plan before he has the chance.

We are not NE and going to pick Brady in the 6th (and NE didn't have a 1st rounder that year for getting Bill). Plus they had Bledsoe who they didn't trade to make room for Brady.
At least try to make your scenarios realistic or I'm going to apply realism to them for you.

 

[PhilEBuster]

Because you know trading Fields and the #1 to get Hartman in the 7th isn't going to happen? Because you know if we get rid of the #1 to get a long shot we're not getting rid of Fields?

The only way we get rid of Fields is because we're not moving off #1 to get someone better. We're not getting rid of Fields and moving down 3 spots because we don't like Williams to risk the teams we put ahead of us also not liking Williams.
And we're not getting a haul to move down a few spots so obviously your plan is to get a long shot in exchange for a haul in which case it only makes sense that Fields stays while the long shot is developed.

Hate to break it to you but I don't give a shit who the QB the Bears take at #1 is the same applies. If they're getting a QB it's likely with #1. If they're not getting a QB with #1 they're riding with Fields. They're not risking the QB they want to gain 800 points worth of picks to put 2 QB needy teams in front of them.

Bears could say their #1 and #2 prospects are equal and not care which one they get and let DC make the decision for them but that trade is a mid 2nd at best. We'd have to give DC our #1 and #111 for their #2 and #36.
If Bears equal choices are Williams and Maye and then DC takes Penix they could trade again to let NE make the decision but neither or both equals a haul.
After that you're adding too many variables, space and QB needy teams. Nobody does that. If they do they're likely losing their jobs because it doesn't work out as planned. And like I said if that is Poles' plan he should lose his job as soon as he says that's his plan before he has the chance.

We are not NE and going to pick Brady in the 6th (and NE didn't have a 1st rounder that year for getting Bill). Plus they had Bledsoe who they didn't trade to make room for Brady.
At least try to make your scenarios realistic or I'm going to apply realism to them for you.

Mykster, I hate to break it to you, but Fields is done here no matter what.

You don't hang your quarterback out to dry the way the Bears have then say, "oh, false alarm, we've decided Justin is still our franchise quarterback." Not to mention the fact that Pudge Poles clearly has determined he's not, no matter the circumstances. Fields had his chance. It's over here . . .

 

[Myk]

The Bears are definitely going to be asking Williams how he would deal with QB competition and potentially sitting his rookie year to learn.

To compete against an $18mil Giraffe?
We've seen how that works on the Bears. The rookie gets no starting reps in the off season. The starter sucks. The rookie is thrown in 3-5 weeks into the season with a week of starting reps.

If we get the #1 he should get the starter reps all off season and start game 1. When you get the #1 that is also how it's done.
When you already have a great vet letting the rookie QB ride the bench for years is for when you got the #10-32 QB.

We don't have a a great vet. We have Fields and Bagent. The #1 rookie would be starting by week 5 with a week of practice and we'd be doing the same BS we always do.

 

[Myk]

Mykster, I hate to break it to you, but Fields is done here no matter what.

You don't hang your quarterback out to dry the way the Bears have then say, "oh, false alarm, we've decided Justin is still our franchise quarterback." Not to mention the fact that Pudge Poles clearly has determined he's not, no matter the circumstances. Fields had his chance. It's over here . . .

I agree. If Poles had any plans for Fields offense would've been the priority the first draft (not 5th - 7th rounders). It's why I say it makes sense that Poles' move this year is the #1 QB because he sure hasn't shown any faith in Fields. The Williams/Maye hype is too big to pass up for a QB he's never done anything for.

And even though I want the haul to build an offense it's because I don't trust the Bears to get the #1 and build an offense for '24. If Fields could work with that offense great, but he won't, he's as damaged goods as Cutler was by the time we started getting him an offense.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

Well I really haven't made this argument in a while but when you look at where things were, you have a quarterback Who has been under two really horrendous offensive Minds in Matt Nagy and Luke Getsy, has been behind an offensive line that has been horrible for most of his career, was on the team for a season when they completely tore everything down to the studs as part of year one of the rebuild and yet all of those stats are still held against him, when most people refer to him statistically, they always exclude his running totals and ignore the total yards in favor of just passing yards when he is a dual threat quarterback ( combining and looking at the total yards makes him look a lot better), he still has one of the best deep balls in the game and can put it on a dime, and his mental makeup has allowed him to perform in the city without cracking, which is something most quarterbacks cannot say when they come to play for Chicago.

When you think about it, sometimes if there's great quarterback playing college but the player is on a really bad team, fans who want him drafted will make all the excuses in the world for him. But when that same player has some flashes of really amazing things but he's stuck on a bad team in the NFL they don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

Fields has been stuck in a cycle of bullshit for a while that has done no favors to his career and even while having to deal with all that has still shown flashes of something special.

The people who want to keep Justin are simply the people who want to see what he can do with a complete team around him and an offensive coordinator that lets him do what he does best rather than trying to force him into his weaker areas which is exactly what both previous offensive coordinators did.

When you look at Miami and what their head coach did for Tua, you can see that coaching matters.

Good logic, on target.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Because you know trading Fields and the #1 to get Hartman in the 7th isn't going to happen? Because you know if we get rid of the #1 to get a long shot we're not getting rid of Fields?

The only way we get rid of Fields is because we're not moving off #1 to get someone better. We're not getting rid of Fields and moving down 3 spots because we don't like Williams to risk the teams we put ahead of us also not liking Williams.
And we're not getting a haul to move down a few spots so obviously your plan is to get a long shot in exchange for a haul in which case it only makes sense that Fields stays while the long shot is developed.

Hate to break it to you but I don't give a shit who the QB the Bears take at #1 is the same applies. If they're getting a QB it's likely with #1. If they're not getting a QB with #1 they're riding with Fields. They're not risking the QB they want to gain 800 points worth of picks to put 2 QB needy teams in front of them.

Bears could say their #1 and #2 prospects are equal and not care which one they get and let DC make the decision for them but that trade is a mid 2nd at best. We'd have to give DC our #1 and #111 for their #2 and #36.
If Bears equal choices are Williams and Maye and then DC takes Penix they could trade again to let NE make the decision but neither or both equals a haul.
After that you're adding too many variables, space and QB needy teams. Nobody does that. If they do they're likely losing their jobs because it doesn't work out as planned. And like I said if that is Poles' plan he should lose his job as soon as he says that's his plan before he has the chance.

We are not NE and going to pick Brady in the 6th (and NE didn't have a 1st rounder that year for getting Bill). Plus they had Bledsoe who they didn't trade to make room for Brady.
At least try to make your scenarios realistic or I'm going to apply realism to them for you.

See though, who are you to decide what's realistic in the situation? You seem to be coming at this from a purely emotional situation and discounting potential possibilities because you don't like them personally. Insured, you're living your own personal emotional bias influence you rather than being coldly logical.

Your argument is ridiculous as well. You are jumping through all these pretzel logic hoops when it's more likely that the simplest answer is the correct one which would be in that scenario that I laid out, Ryan Poles simply likes a certain Prospect more than he likes Caleb Williams and Justin fields. See? Occams razor. Simple answer, nice, clean, and not ridiculous no requiring all sorts of emotional upheaval or logical loop-de-loops like your stuff.

Did you notice my argument is Clean and avoid of Any sort of presumption Question rank that I only list it is a possibility and that if it does happen, that is what that situation then tells us about Ryan Poles?

Yet your argument has me in your mouth. Like I make any sort of decisions for the Bears? Neither of you for that matter. So our relative emotions and opinions in the matter are completely pointless.

If you want to learn how to think critically, you need to remove the emotion from the argument. What you are doing is nothing more than coming to a conclusion based on your emotions and trying to dress it up with as much 'facty' sounding statements as possible that when you put it together, it's like a puzzle where the pieces don't fit.

The fact that you can't make a simple, clean argument Is proof enough of that.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Good logic, on target.

Thank you. Keep in mind I'm only positing this as a possibility, not as a foregone conclusion

 

[Myk]

See though, who are you to decide what's realistic in the situation?

I am someone with a memory who pays attention and knows history repeats itself.

All those hoops you claim I'm jumping through is trying to explain why your conspiracy theory thinking doesn't make sense.

it's more likely that the simplest answer is the correct one which would be in that scenario that I laid out, Ryan Poles simply likes a certain Prospect more than he likes Caleb Williams and Justin fields. See? Occams razor.

And then he takes that QB #1 because it's the QB he likes the most and doesn't want another team to get. See? Occam's Razor.

If the QB is better than the consensus #1 the QB is worth the #1. If he thinks that QB is the best is it just as likely DC and NE are thinking the same thing. Or do you think Poles is the biggest scouting genius in the NFL?

What other QBs are you thinking Poles likes better that are reporting to Halas Hall?
One would think with Williams dicking them around with a visit that's Poles' opportunity to have Maye in. Maye or Daniels reporting to the same teams Williams reports to would be standard and not hurt any smokescreens.
Where are the reports?

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I am someone with a memory who pays attention and knows history repeats itself.

All those hoops you claim I'm jumping through is trying to explain why your conspiracy theory thinking doesn't make sense.



And then he takes that QB #1 because it's the QB he likes the most and doesn't want another team to get. See? Occam's Razor.

If the QB is better than the consensus #1 the QB is worth the #1. If he thinks that QB is the best is it just as likely DC and NE are thinking the same thing. Or do you think Poles is the biggest scouting genius in the NFL?

What other QBs are you thinking Poles likes better that are reporting to Halas Hall?
One would think with Williams dicking them around with a visit that's Poles' opportunity to have Maye in. Maye or Daniels reporting to the same teams Williams reports to would be standard and not hurt any smokescreens.
Where are the reports?

If the QB he likes isn't Caleb Williams, then why not trade the #1 overall pick to a team who has bought into Caleb Williams, get a HAUL back, and then draft your Quarterback?

If your (Ryan Poles) Quarterback isn't Williams or Drake Maye, you stand a chance to get the QB you really wanted AND come away with a legendary haul.

See - you really aren't thinking this through.....

 

[Myk]

If the QB he likes isn't Caleb Williams, then why not trade the #1 overall pick to a team who has bought into Caleb Williams, get a HAUL back, and then draft your Quarterback?

If your (Ryan Poles) Quarterback isn't Williams or Drake Maye, you stand a chance to get the QB you really wanted AND come away with a legendary haul.

See - you really aren't thinking this through.....

Stop being cryptic. Tell me what QB you are thinking of and I'll answer. I'm sick of jumping through hoops trying to explain this to you.

Obviously since you think there's a HAUL you think he's going to trade away from #1 to a lower round high risk player like I already suspected. I've already answered why that isn't going to happen.

And you really shouldn't need it explained why anybody with the #1 is going to trade a top 5 prospect for a bottom 20 prospect. Nobody who's followed the Bears for any amount of time should need it explained.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Stop being cryptic. Tell me what QB you are thinking of and I'll answer. I'm sick of jumping through hoops trying to explain this to you.

Obviously since you think there's a HAUL you think he's going to trade away from #1 to a lower round high risk player like I already suspected. I've already answered why that isn't going to happen.

And you really shouldn't need why nobody with the #1 is going to trade a top 5 prospect for a bottom 20 prospect. Nobody who's followed the Bears for any amount of time should need it explained.

The problem with your argument is you make a lot of assumptions. And all of them are colored by your own emotional bias.

You are the type who would auction off a rookie Babe Ruth card for the listed price in a magazine that catalogs baseball card values, while a more savvy person would take it to an auction house where a lot of memorabilia for baseball will be and a lot of very wealthy collectors will be, and start the bidding slightly higher than the magazine price and walk away with a small fortune.

That's the difference between you and your line of thinking, and a professional GM in the NFL who is good at his job, and the way they look at the draft.

You should try looking at it from a general manager's perspective and not your own.

 

[Myk]

Oh look, the Bears and Poles have suddenly become QB Whisperers are are going to instantly develop a 6th rounder into Tom Brady to be an instant rookie starter.

Just ignore all the times they've taken a high rated QB and turned them into nothing or traded for a pro bowl rookie and turned him into nothing.
This time it'll be different. I'm sure he won't beat me again like he has for the last 40 freakin years!

Jesus get a fucking brain.

 

[Myk]

The problem with your argument is you make a lot of assumptions. And all of them are colored by your own emotional bias.

You are the type who would auction off a rookie Babe Ruth card for the listed price in a magazine that catalogs baseball card values, while a more savvy person would take it to an auction house where a lot of memorabilia for baseball will be and a lot of very wealthy collectors will be, and start the bidding slightly higher than the magazine price and walk away with a small fortune.

That's the difference between you and your line of thinking, and a professional GM in the NFL who is good at his job, and the way they look at the draft.

You should try looking at it from a general manager's perspective and not your own.

No answer. Just what I figured.
CONSPIRACY THEORY IS THE ONLY CRITICAL THINKING!!!11

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Oh and the reason why I don't name a name for quarterback?

Because none of us knows what Ryan poles is thinking and it could be any number of quarterbacks depending on how their internal ranking goes after the combine.

That's where you tip your hand, @Myk .

You want to turn this into a battle of scouting reports and which QB one person likes over another person.

In short you want to make an emotional argument over why you prefer which QB over another - in essence, you want to turn this into an emotional pissing contest. But that's irrelevant to what I put forth, because what I did leaves it open for Ryan pulls to make his own decision, regardless of whatever that decision is. The way I talk about it removes the bias whereas the way you talk about it includes all of your biases. Which is why you have no business talking to anyone about critical thinking when you are incapable of it yourself.

Which is why you got emotional your last posts before I posted this.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

No answer. Just what I figured.
CONSPIRACY THEORY IS THE ONLY CRITICAL THINKING!!!11

Oh look an emotional outburst. Sorry but that's not going to convince me you were thinking critically this whole time.

If having an intelligent conversation about a theoretical outcome that leaves multiple options open for the Bears GM leads you to have an emotional Outburst like you just did, and leads you attempting to drag this into a pissing contest over prospects like you were trying to do, then maybe you're not cut out to have that type of intelligence conversation.

 

[Myk]

Oh look an emotional outburst. Sorry but that's not going to convince me you were thinking critically this whole time.

If having an intelligent conversation about a theoretical outcome that leaves multiple options open for the Bears GM leads you to have an emotional Outburst like you just did, then maybe you're not cut out to have that type of intelligence conversation.

Making fun of you with caps is not me being emotional. It's making fun of the way you are being.

If you have a HYPOTHETICAL you have a QB in mind that's in the '24 draft that he could be wanting over Williams/Maye/Daniels. You won't say who it is because you know it's not realistic. Nobody trades off the top 5 QBs for free AND trades their starting QB without a realistic plan.
You can't even make up a realistic plan to fit that BS.

 

[nc0gnet0]

yeah. Definitely zero variables with Fields. Everything straight forward and known.

The comparison was simply that nobody knew what was going to happen. But sure, go as deep as you want down the rabbit hole and pull out anything you want. Maybe you’ll even figure out it’s your ass.

Maybe when you get your head out of your ass, you will figure out what the rest of the league already knows, that JF is a backup level QB.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Well I really haven't made this argument in a while but when you look at where things were, you have a quarterback Who has been under two really horrendous offensive Minds in Matt Nagy and Luke Getsy, has been behind an offensive line that has been horrible for most of his career, was on the team for a season when they completely tore everything down to the studs as part of year one of the rebuild and yet all of those stats are still held against him, when most people refer to him statistically, they always exclude his running totals and ignore the total yards in favor of just passing yards when he is a dual threat quarterback ( combining and looking at the total yards makes him look a lot better), he still has one of the best deep balls in the game and can put it on a dime, and his mental makeup has allowed him to perform in the city without cracking, which is something most quarterbacks cannot say when they come to play for Chicago.

When you think about it, sometimes if there's great quarterback playing college but the player is on a really bad team, fans who want him drafted will make all the excuses in the world for him. But when that same player has some flashes of really amazing things but he's stuck on a bad team in the NFL they don't get the same benefit of the doubt.

Fields has been stuck in a cycle of bullshit for a while that has done no favors to his career and even while having to deal with all that has still shown flashes of something special.

The people who want to keep Justin are simply the people who want to see what he can do with a complete team around him and an offensive coordinator that lets him do what he does best rather than trying to force him into his weaker areas which is exactly what both previous offensive coordinators did.

When you look at Miami and what their head coach did for Tua, you can see that coaching matters.

Very whiny post. How many playoff games have Dolphins won with that coaching that matters?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Oh look an emotional outburst. Sorry but that's not going to convince me you were thinking critically this whole time.

If having an intelligent conversation about a theoretical outcome that leaves multiple options open for the Bears GM leads you to have an emotional Outburst like you just did, and leads you attempting to drag this into a pissing contest over prospects like you were trying to do, then maybe you're not cut out to have that type of intelligence conversation.

God you are a fucking tard. No other way to put it.