Kaplan: Cubs 'kicking the tires' on SP James Shields

[CSF77]

It is not needed for sure. Right now they have Lester, Arrieta, Hammel, Hendricks then Wood.

Adding Shields bumps Wood making it Lester, Shields, Arrieta, Hammel and Hendricks.

Too many RHP back to back for my tastes with out a dominate LH BP. Not really a strong strat.

I believe the Pads will sign him as they have made some legit investments this off season and lack a ToR.

Cubs on the other hand invested into Wood and Wada. Have Turner as a option still. 13 mil sitting on Jackson etc. It makes little sense unless Shields goes under market just to pitch for Joe again.

IMO it makes sense to invest into a better starter than Lester or trade for a young gun with some of their depth.

 

[2323]

Greg Amsinger made an interesting comment about Shields possibly being signed by the Cubs, at least in part, with the idea in mind he might help recruit Price.

 

[ijustposthere]

I don't want Shields. Is he really even "Big Game?" I heard he gave himself that nickname. And where is Kaplan getting his info? The guy started 5 games in the postseason. 1-2, 25 innings, 17 ERs, and a 6.12 ERA.

 

[dabears253313]

I'd like to see this rotation if the Cubs sign him:

1. Jon Lester
2. James Shields
3. Jake Arrieta
4. Kyle Hendricks
5. Tsuyoshi Wada

Seems like the Cubs will be trading away some pitchers because in addition to those guys they have Travis Wood, Edwin Jackson, Jason Hammel, Jacob Turner, Felix Doubront, Dallas Beeler, Eric Jokisch. I can see Wada being traded because of his age but if he isn't I think he deserves a spot in the rotation.

 

[DewsSox79]

It is not needed for sure. Right now they have Lester, Arrieta, Hammel, Hendricks then Wood.

Adding Shields bumps Wood making it Lester, Shields, Arrieta, Hammel and Hendricks.

Too many RHP back to back for my tastes with out a dominate LH BP. Not really a strong strat.

I believe the Pads will sign him as they have made some legit investments this off season and lack a ToR.

Cubs on the other hand invested into Wood and Wada. Have Turner as a option still. 13 mil sitting on Jackson etc. It makes little sense unless Shields goes under market just to pitch for Joe again.

IMO it makes sense to invest into a better starter than Lester or trade for a young gun with some of their depth.

or wait until next offseason for someone better


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[beckdawg]

or wait until next offseason for someone better


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Really depends on the type of discount you might get. If they get Shields on a 1-3ish year deal for say $15 mil a pop then you're really not going to find a much better deal than that even if someone like Price or whomever is "better." The shorter term and lower price makes it a valuable deal. It's a pretty smart move. Not saying the cubs are the only ones doing it but it honestly feels like a Cardinal type move in that they get a pretty good player for far below typical market value.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I really want the Cubs to make a decision based on what they think they're willing to do next off season. I'd like to think David Price would be a possibility for the Cubs so I understand why Shields now is unlikely. But maybe the Cubs know they're not going to hand out another huuuge contract, in which case I hope they make a good run at getting Shields now.

No matter how low Shields falls, I just really doubt Shields now PLUS a big free agent starting pitcher next season is possible.

 

[DewsSox79]

Really depends on the type of discount you might get. If they get Shields on a 1-3ish year deal for say $15 mil a pop then you're really not going to find a much better deal than that even if someone like Price or whomever is "better." The shorter term and lower price makes it a valuable deal. It's a pretty smart move. Not saying the cubs are the only ones doing it but it honestly feels like a Cardinal type move in that they get a pretty good player for far below typical market value.

true. but i think the minimum he takes is 3 years. i get your logic. but the cards do it with guys like beltran etc who have zero value at the time of signing. how they do it is a mystery but thats their thing. i do see ur point


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[nickofypres]

If his price drops super-low (3 years at $15M) then virtually every team will be in on that.

My guess is someone gives him at least 5/68. Detroit, Cubs, Cards, Brewers, Yankees, Red Sox probably bid with each other.

 

[DewsSox79]

If his price drops super-low (3 years at $15M) then virtually every team will be in on that.

My guess is someone gives him at least 5/68. Detroit, Cubs, Cards, Brewers, Yankees, Red Sox probably bid with each other.

5/68 is just wrong for a 33 year old who gives up too many bombs. as he gets older it will get worse. having lester and shields locked up that long getting paid for what they did for other teams is just dumb. cubs are better off waiting out till next offseason.

i can see the dumb ass tigers getting desperate to give 5 years.

i think he goes marlins or cubs


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[Boobaby1]

I don't want Shields. Is he really even "Big Game?" I heard he gave himself that nickname. And where is Kaplan getting his info? The guy started 5 games in the postseason. 1-2, 25 innings, 17 ERs, and a 6.12 ERA.

Yes, but he is a big part of the reason they got to the post season, and last I checked, you can't win the WS if you don't get into October.

He is a winner, and I like my team to have winners.

 

[Boobaby1]

I really want the Cubs to make a decision based on what they think they're willing to do next off season. I'd like to think David Price would be a possibility for the Cubs so I understand why Shields now is unlikely. But maybe the Cubs know they're not going to hand out another huuuge contract, in which case I hope they make a good run at getting Shields now.

No matter how low Shields falls, I just really doubt Shields now PLUS a big free agent starting pitcher next season is possible.

Why do they need a big name next year if they land Shields? He is a big name and would cost a ton less than anyone else that is going to be on the market, plus the other big boys are going to get involved for said pitchers which will drive the price up all the way around..

Shields would change this team drastically (much like Lester did), and if they can dump off some salary in Wood and Castillo, it makes it an even better signing.

You can't tell me that top four of Lester, Shields, Arrieta, and Hammel wouldn't look good and prevent those losing streaks that they have had in recent memory.

 

[CSF77]

I'd like to see this rotation if the Cubs sign him:

1. Jon Lester
2. James Shields
3. Jake Arrieta
4. Kyle Hendricks
5. Tsuyoshi Wada

Seems like the Cubs will be trading away some pitchers because in addition to those guys they have Travis Wood, Edwin Jackson, Jason Hammel, Jacob Turner, Felix Doubront, Dallas Beeler, Eric Jokisch. I can see Wada being traded because of his age but if he isn't I think he deserves a spot in the rotation.

Strongly doubt they would sign Jason to a 3 year then flip him. Pretty shitty if they did. So that will not happen.

I believe it will be Wood as the 4 and Hendricks as the 5. There is little point on having 2 lefties going back to back. Better used to split up the rotation.

or wait until next offseason for someone better

Always thought Price should be that guy.

You can't tell me that top four of Lester, Shields, Arrieta, and Hammel wouldn't look good and prevent those losing streaks that they have had in recent memory.

It wouldn't hurt. But the core problem has be 2 fold.
1. lack of run support.
2. leaky pen.

They are related as the O was not giving enough support where the pen was getting into close game more frequently.

The starting pitching in general has been pretty strong. Did it take a dip post trade deadline? 2013 yes. 2014 no as much as Wada and Hendricks put up strong production.

If they sign him to a 3 year deal it would mirror the deal Dempster got. 33-36. They traded him at the tail end and he became more injure prone as the deal went.

I would not expect any more. By the end of the deal he would be a expensive #4/5 pitch and I believe either Edwards or Johnson would prove to be as good of an option with long term potential.

I just don't see the fit.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I just don't see the fit.

No, neither do I. When I look at potential problems this year pitching is not at the top of the list. Sure Arietta could regress and I'm not the biggest fan of Hendricks but I don't see either one falling off so badly that it matters. Hammel actually had a very good season last year minus about his first three starts for the Athletics. I agree that this is not playoff rotation but if this looks to be a playoff team that can be fixed in July. That being said it makes perfect sense to "kick the tires". Shields is a quality arm that has gotten to the point where he could very well be under market value. I just don't know how far under market it is where he starts to make sense. It's hard for me to envision that point.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

Why do they need a big name next year if they land Shields? He is a big name and would cost a ton less than anyone else that is going to be on the market, plus the other big boys are going to get involved for said pitchers which will drive the price up all the way around..

Shields would change this team drastically (much like Lester did), and if they can dump off some salary in Wood and Castillo, it makes it an even better signing.

You can't tell me that top four of Lester, Shields, Arrieta, and Hammel wouldn't look good and prevent those losing streaks that they have had in recent memory.

I'd take Shields on this team and be pretty happy about if that's what happens. But if it was up to me, I'd wait until next year and go after a better and younger pitcher, even for more money. I think it would be worth it. Fortunately for the Cubs fans, it's not up to me....You can guess right now about what Price will cost and I'll let the Cubs figure out if they think they have a legitimate chance or not....or if a getting a good 33 year old pitcher right now for a lower price makes more sense.

 

[JimJohnson]

At a super cheap price would Shields be nice? Sure, 3 years $55 million maybe? The thing is that's not going to happen it's going to be 4/$75 or $80 and not only do I not see the Cubs doing that it would seem to beyond their budgetary constraints.

TC, with all due respect, I don't think you have a firm grasp of the Cubs budgetary constraints. You keep talking about debt covenants but if the Cubs are considering a Shields play, then clearly they have enough cash to do whatever they want. I'll trust Theo's decision more than yours.

 

[JimJohnson]

No, neither do I. When I look at potential problems this year pitching is not at the top of the list. Sure Arietta could regress and I'm not the biggest fan of Hendricks but I don't see either one falling off so badly that it matters. Hammel actually had a very good season last year minus about his first three starts for the Athletics. I agree that this is not playoff rotation but if this looks to be a playoff team that can be fixed in July. That being said it makes perfect sense to "kick the tires". Shields is a quality arm that has gotten to the point where he could very well be under market value. I just don't know how far under market it is where he starts to make sense. It's hard for me to envision that point.

You say Shields isn't a fit and then you also say in an earlier post that the Cubs aren't likely to sign another TOR pitcher next season. I'm not sure what you think the game plan is here but the Cubs are trying to build a WS contender and that is done through pitching. The pitching prospects that the Cubs have quite honestly suck ass. So if the Cubs plan to go for gold and win a WS, they need to pay the piper on pitching. Currently, the only bona fide star pitcher is Lester. If Arriata proves himself this year, then the Cubs will have 2. They need more. Star pitching will beat star hitting in the playoffs everytime so if you and anyone else think that the Cubs bats are going to win in October, you are mistaken.

 

[CSF77]

You say Shields isn't a fit and then you also say in an earlier post that the Cubs aren't likely to sign another TOR pitcher next season. I'm not sure what you think the game plan is here but the Cubs are trying to build a WS contender and that is done through pitching. The pitching prospects that the Cubs have quite honestly suck ass. So if the Cubs plan to go for gold and win a WS, they need to pay the piper on pitching. Currently, the only bona fide star pitcher is Lester. If Arriata proves himself this year, then the Cubs will have 2. They need more. Star pitching will beat star hitting in the playoffs everytime so if you and anyone else think that the Cubs bats are going to win in October, you are mistaken.

It is a age issue. Shields will be in decline over the term of his deal. This year he will help but year 2 and on it would hurt the the team to have payroll tied up when Price hits the market. It is bad enough that they are paying Jackson 13 mil for 2 years. No need to add to that pool.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

You say Shields isn't a fit and then you also say in an earlier post that the Cubs aren't likely to sign another TOR pitcher next season. I'm not sure what you think the game plan is here but the Cubs are trying to build a WS contender and that is done through pitching. The pitching prospects that the Cubs have quite honestly suck ass. So if the Cubs plan to go for gold and win a WS, they need to pay the piper on pitching. Currently, the only bona fide star pitcher is Lester. If Arriata proves himself this year, then the Cubs will have 2. They need more. Star pitching will beat star hitting in the playoffs everytime so if you and anyone else think that the Cubs bats are going to win in October, you are mistaken.

Actually they have some really nice pitching prospects including one very close. If you buy him as a starter CJ Edwards has every pitch necessary to be a TOR guy, probably projecting as a #2. I'm not saying you don't go out and get pitching I'm saying you use the resources you have carefully built in order to get pitching to actually do that. There are guys like Sonny Gray, Noah Syndgaard and others who can be had in trade. Some people have projected the Nets to be a playoff contender this year and they have opposite needs to the Cubs. If Baez looks a little improved he could be very attractive to them as they don't have a ton of right handed power on their team or in their system. Toronto have a 21 year old kid named Jeff Hoffman coming off of elbow surgery that was pegged to be a surefire 1 or 2 prior to the injury and most scouts feel he's an ideal candidate to come back. Toronto will trade him for the right player. My point is there are guys out there and the Cubs banked on right handed power bats becoming more valuable than pitching and pretty soon they'll know enough about their guys to put that to the test.

All that being said I love some of the FA guys out their next year and if they need to go there I have no doubt they will. Here's the thing though, if Jake Arrietta is the guy you think he is you're going to be paying him a ton of money in 2017. He's represented by Scott Boras and he's going to cost you. Jordan Zimmermann, the pitcher I like the most out of next year's class, is going to get more money than Max Scherzer just got. David Price might too. Money is an asset the Cubs have and I hope they use it, the stockpile of right handed power is an asset I hope they use too. What I'm saying is this is a lot more complicated than throwing money around. Say you sign Price next year, what does 2018 look like with Lester probably a #4 by then and Price maybe a #3? My hope is CJ Edwards is at the top of the rotation by then, Duane Underhill pans out and they've also picked up a guy or two in trade, the Syndergaards or Hoffmans or Grays I mentione above. I want to see a mix. I don't want to see the team contend for a couple years and be hamstrung because they signed to many long term pitching deals. You say pitching wins and no one disagrees with that but the Cubs have challenged how you build a team and don't look now but it's being emulated throughout the game.

 

[TL1961]

If his price drops super-low (3 years at $15M) then virtually every team will be in on that.

My guess is someone gives him at least 5/68. Detroit, Cubs, Cards, Brewers, Yankees, Red Sox probably bid with each other.

If someone was offering 5 years, there wouldn't be a lot of teams still interested.

I am guessing he will sign for 3 years. 5 seems completely out of the question, though teams have surprised us before.