KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Deadlin

[cool007]

I got this from the other board.

I emailed K.C. Johnson the following question:

The Bulls benched Gordon for Chris Duhon for a season and a half. They benched him for Larry Hughes for 25 games. They offered him much less money than Luol Deng, and then took away his offer the moment he was ready to accept it. This off-season Reinsdorf was quoted as saying that Gordon wouldn't have been able to get playing time behind Rose, Hinrich, and Salmons. Gordon is arguably the best player amongst this group, and currently has the highest PER. Are the Bulls brass just delusional or are they just really disrespectful towards him?

His response:

Disrespectful to him. Never understood their stance with BG. As for the pulled offer, I've heard they decided they made a mistake even offering it to him so even if he said he wanted to sign it, the offer was going to be pulled.

hmy:

:X

 

[TheStig]

Well I don't like being right about these types of things but I always thought JR was negotiating in bad faith with BG. Just like the bad faith statement Gar made after the playoffs that signing BG would be their top priority despite not even making him an offer. You can't trust anything this group of greedy idiots says, certainly not that they would be willing to pay for a winner. Simply, the bulls won't get good till JR dies.

 

[houheffna]

Wow...that's bad news right there...whatever you do...show some integrity...

 

[??? ??????]

This doesn't surprise me because this is what I've been saying all along.

If the Bulls really wanted to keep Ben, then they would have let him take that contract when he accepted it, because nothing is going to change over two days (when you don't make any trades or signings) in regards to you liking a player or not.

I would guess that Ben only got a contract offer thanks to some good lobbying by John Paxson.

 

[houheffna]

I don't agree that the team will become good only when Reinsdorf dies...10 years removed from 6 championships while he was alive...he didn't like Gordon for whatever reason...maybe he will tell his side of that story. But keeping Gordon does not show me any hunger to win a championship, neither does letting him go...

 

[cool007]

What really bothers me is that JR and Pax's stands for playing defense or (OVER)valuing defense so much to a fault. They kept Hinrich and have been raving about him/his defense ever since he was drafted and same with Deng/Tyrus (drafting over LMA coz of defense mainly), Thabo, etc.

They draft these guys because the SEEM like playing very good defense but they don't realize that's ONLY 1 side of the game. They need to look at the bigger picture and see BOTH ends of the court. You need BOTH offense AND defense to win in this league unless you are elite at one of those things. Even then you will probably make playoffs but wouldn't go further.

This is why they have been valuing Hinrich/Deng etc much higher than a guy like Gordon who is actually a superior player IMO. Yes, Gordon's defense was bad when he came to the league but his defense has been atleast average since then but his offense is FAR better than Deng and Hinrich's defense.

Also, They chose a backup PG (who plays the same position as your franchise PG) who also gets $9mil a year over a guy that fits in better with your franchise player and could have also be signed for $9mil a year???

IMO, that contract would be a BIG TIME value contract and it was totally worth it. I don't think Gordon is worth more than $11.5mil a year that he is geting right now but at $9mil a year - he is a big time value contract.

Even if we were going with 2010 plan, we could always trade Gordon (had Wade agreed to come) for a nice value as well. People really don't pay attention to this but it would have been really good either way.

I really really seriously question our front office for talent evaluating by keeping Hinrich over Gordon.

 

[jsain360]

cool007 wrote:

What really bothers me is that JR and Pax's stands for playing defense or (OVER)valuing defense so much to a fault. They kept Hinrich and have been raving about him/his defense ever since he was drafted and same with Deng/Tyrus (drafting over LMA coz of defense mainly), Thabo, etc.

They draft these guys because the SEEM like playing very good defense but they don't realize that's ONLY 1 side of the game. They need to look at the bigger picture and see BOTH ends of the court. You need BOTH offense AND defense to win in this league unless you are elite at one of those things. Even then you will probably make playoffs but wouldn't go further.

This is why they have been valuing Hinrich/Deng etc much higher than a guy like Gordon who is actually a superior player IMO. Yes, Gordon's defense was bad when he came to the league but his defense has been atleast average since then but his offense is FAR better than Deng and Hinrich's defense.

Also, They chose a backup PG (who plays the same position as your franchise PG) who also gets $9mil a year over a guy that fits in better with your franchise player and could have also be signed for $9mil a year???

IMO, that contract would be a BIG TIME value contract and it was totally worth it. I don't think Gordon is worth more than $11.5mil a year that he is geting right now but at $9mil a year - he is a big time value contract.

Even if we were going with 2010 plan, we could always trade Gordon (had Wade agreed to come) for a nice value as well. People really don't pay attention to this but it would have been really good either way.

I really really seriously question our front office for talent evaluating by keeping Hinrich over Gordon.

This really wasn't about talent, Jerry likes Kirk, and he doesn't like Ben, Ben was the odd man out, especially when the Jerry had no plans of letting Kirk get traded to free up space for Ben

 

[houheffna]

I believe this stems from Gordon making the statement that he should be the highest paid player on the team because he was the best player. He spoke out in the media for a few years straight...I think that is why Reinsdorf and others didn't like him. They went overboard I think, but he didn't act in a very professional manner himself...

 

[Kush77]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

JR and Bulls' management is a joke.

I know Hou likes to say he won 6 titles but he bought a team with Michael Jordan. Everything he's done, outside of buying a team with MJ, has been a joke.

Post-dynasty the team has 1 trip out of the first round in 10 years. Even the year and a half Jordan was gone they managed to botch the Horace Grant situation and alienate the 2nd best player in franchise history.

This franchise also took a pass on winning a 7th title. Never seen a franchise do that.

Jerry Reinsdorf is a joke and I don't see how anyone could give him the benefit of the doubt given the track record.

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

I believe this stems from Gordon making the statement that he should be the highest paid player on the team because he was the best player. He spoke out in the media for a few years straight...I think that is why Reinsdorf and others didn't like him. They went overboard I think, but he didn't act in a very professional manner himself...

You keep saying Gordon said this but I don't remember this at all. One thing that Ben Gordon did not do was speak out in the media...about anything. Unprofessional & Gordon don't mix. He's was nothing but professional during the entire contract debacle.

And even if he thought that...so what? He was the best player on the team at the time. Was he worth $15mill probably not, but the simple fact remains that we would have the SG position taken care of for the next 5 seasons for almost half that price if it weren't for the nefarious negotiation tactics of one Jerry Reinsdork.

 

[??? ??????]

Diddy1122 wrote:

houheffna wrote:

I believe this stems from Gordon making the statement that he should be the highest paid player on the team because he was the best player. He spoke out in the media for a few years straight...I think that is why Reinsdorf and others didn't like him. They went overboard I think, but he didn't act in a very professional manner himself...

You keep saying Gordon said this but I don't remember this at all. One thing that Ben Gordon did not do was speak out in the media...about anything. Unprofessional & Gordon don't mix. He's was nothing but professional during the entire contract debacle.

And even if he thought that...so what? He was the best player on the team at the time. Was he worth $15mill probably not, but the simple fact remains that we would have the SG position taken care of for the next 5 seasons for almost half that price if it weren't for the nefarious negotiation tactics of one Jerry Reinsdork.

He said something to the effect that the leading scorer should be the highest paid player on the team.

But he also said that he'd want what Kirk's making as well.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

Kush77 wrote:

JR and Bulls' management is a joke.

I know Hou likes to say he won 6 titles but he bought a team with Michael Jordan. Everything he's done, outside of buying a team with MJ, has been a joke.

Post-dynasty the team has 1 trip out of the first round in 10 years. Even the year and a half Jordan was gone they managed to botch the Horace Grant situation and alienate the 2nd best player in franchise history.

This franchise also took a pass on winning a 7th title. Never seen a franchise do that.

Jerry Reinsdorf is a joke and I don't see how anyone could give him the benefit of the doubt given the track record.

Yeah after the 98 season all Bulls players left the team. Jordan retired, Pippen went to Houston, Rodman went to the Lakers. Role players like Steve Kerr left the team, too. If I´m not wrong even the coach Phil Jackson has gone after this season. How many players from the last championship team played for the Bulls in 99? I can only remember Kukoc.

I have never seen this before or again. Even without Jordan the team should have been good enough to make the finals.

I think letting all these players go after winning a title is the biggest failure that happened in sports history.

 

[Kush77]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

Bullseye wrote:

Kush77 wrote:

JR and Bulls' management is a joke.

I know Hou likes to say he won 6 titles but he bought a team with Michael Jordan. Everything he's done, outside of buying a team with MJ, has been a joke.

Post-dynasty the team has 1 trip out of the first round in 10 years. Even the year and a half Jordan was gone they managed to botch the Horace Grant situation and alienate the 2nd best player in franchise history.

This franchise also took a pass on winning a 7th title. Never seen a franchise do that.

Jerry Reinsdorf is a joke and I don't see how anyone could give him the benefit of the doubt given the track record.

Yeah after the 98 season all Bulls players left the team. Jordan retired, Pippen went to Houston, Rodman went to the Lakers. Role players like Steve Kerr left the team, too. If I´m not wrong even the coach Phil Jackson has gone after this season. How many players from the last championship team played for the Bulls in 99? I can only remember Kukoc.

I have never seen this before or again. Even without Jordan the team should have been good enough to make the finals.

I think letting all these players go after winning a title is the biggest failure that happened in sports history.

The players left were Kukoc, Randy Brown, Ron Harper and Bill Wennington

Kerr went to S.A., Longley went to Phoenix, Jud Buechler went to Detroit and Phil went to Montana to live in the woods or something.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

I think there never was an NBA team changing all but 4 players from season to season. Right?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

Ummm...this is an atrocity. I cannot believe what I just read. There is undoubtable proof that there is something wrong with management. You don't just give up on a #3 pick who was your best player, best shooter, best scorer, and only person who could play worth anything in crunch time like that. Just one thing, if the Bulls really hated Gordon that much, why draft him in the first place? On top of that, why did they keep him last year? Simply disgusting...

 

[Shakes]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

Oh come on, take a step back for a moment and stop being so credulous here.

He doesn't even vaguely name a source, and whatever sources he's "heard" from is obviously not reliable enough for him to put such a statement in an actual article.

Maybe it's true, but there is absolutely no evidence here to convince anyone who doesn't have a "I Want To Believe" poster of JR flying over the United Center destroying it with laser beams on their wall.

 

[houheffna]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

To Kush:

Its funny that you say JR did nothing but buy a team with Jordan on it....and you have Pippen in your avatar....maybe Scottie was here too when Reinsdorf got the team....I also find it interesting that you continually blame Reinsdorf for "passing" on the 7th championship when I have given you evidence in the form of a written article by Sam Smith reporting differently....but you look at a text from KC Johnson on what he believed (not fact) and believe every bit of that...unbelievable!

Diddy:

You are mistaken...you pretty much called BG unprofessional, Reinsdorf would agree...he came out to the media every year for three years straight. I have said before that someone was giving him bad advice. You don't negotiate in the media, and you definitely don't negotiate with Reinsdorf in the media.

 

[Kush77]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

houheffna wrote:

To Kush:

Its funny that you say JR did nothing but buy a team with Jordan on it....and you have Pippen in your avatar....maybe Scottie was here too when Reinsdorf got the team....I also find it interesting that you continually blame Reinsdorf for "passing" on the 7th championship when I have given you evidence in the form of a written article by Sam Smith reporting differently....but you look at a text from KC Johnson on what he believed (not fact) and believe every bit of that...unbelievable!
.

The track record of ineptness by Bulls management is a lot longer than anyone else you want to blame as well. I really don't need to go through the list of things this management unit (JT, Krause, Pax, Foreman) have botched.

The Bulls could of won the 7th title is the team stayed together. Had the relationships been better, the team would have stayed together, thus they would have won in 99. It falls on management at the end of the day.

My opinions in that last post have zero to do with KC Johnson's email to a fan. I think you know my feelings were that way already.

Bulls management have botched a lot of things over the years, but you (and others) want to absolve them by saying "hey, they won 6 titles." Yeah, in spite of the management, not because of.

 

[mj275]

This makes me want to throw up, but what can you expect from self-asorbed owner. I think that the art of a pull up jump shooter is lost in the world of BOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAS!Putting people in the seats, by high flying dunks is all that counts?I guess stand- up guys who are clutch, are not welcome in Chicago? Well! There is a Hall of Fame Gaurd in Detroit who thinks those qualities; are the very building blocks of a team.:angry:

 

[houheffna]

Re:KC: Bulls May Have Pulled Offer From BG B4 Dead

The track record of ineptness by Bulls management is a lot longer than anyone else you want to blame as well. I really don't need to go through the list of things this management unit (JT, Krause, Pax, Foreman) have botched.

The Bulls could of won the 7th title is the team stayed together. Had the relationships been better, the team would have stayed together, thus they would have won in 99. It falls on management at the end of the day.

My opinions in that last post have zero to do with KC Johnson's email to a fan. I think you know my feelings were that way already.

Bulls management have botched a lot of things over the years, but you (and others) want to absolve them by saying "hey, they won 6 titles." Yeah, in spite of the management, not because of.

In spite of management...bringing in these guys to begin with...putting the talent together? In spite of that? Okay.

I think management has made a lot of mistakes, but to say that the Bulls won 6 championships without the help of management is just being mean-spirited. You don't need to go through the list of botches by management, I don't need to go through the successes. I believe that whoever it is, despite my bias against them...I give credit where credit is due. It is what I would expect from critics if I were being critiqued. Give me credit for the good, and don't just blame me for the bad. I think you know better. You admitted as much on your show.

Ironic that you changed that avatar quick...