KC Johnson report!

[Newskoolbulls]

Simeon2UC wrote:

Alright, I'm smokin chalk. That aint what he told me lol!

so you are admitting you lied about him emailing you this?

 

[houheffna]

I am still in shock that anybody with a pulse would even consider taking Gordon over Melo. This is exactly what happened with the Kobe deal. People didn't want to trade Deng...who many considered at that time the best player on the team (not Gordon). I just don't get it.

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

I am still in shock that anybody with a pulse would even consider taking Gordon over Melo. This is exactly what happened with the Kobe deal. People didn't want to trade Deng...who many considered at that time the best player on the team (not Gordon). I just don't get it.

neither do i. but you must remember that a lot of sports fans are like this:

homers. they see the players on their favorite team as way better than they actually are.
so you shouldn't expect rational arguments or logic. just passionate rants that make no sense.

 

[houheffna]

you are right, and that's funny. It is still very frustrating though. Definitely more Bulls fans than NBA fans on this forum.

 

[dunkside.com]

houheffna wrote:

you are right, and that's funny. It is still very frustrating though. Definitely more Bulls fans than NBA fans on this forum.

i know. i've been there.
with this type of fans you can't really have a logical debate, based on arguments. you present them with arguments to support your claim/theory and they just repeat their beliefs over and over and over again, or present fallacies as arguments.
in the end is best to ignore them. but i know you can't always do that cause it drives you nuts sometimes to see to what level the homerism gets (one of those examples - not wanting to trade deng for kobe)

 

[Shakes]

Nobody actually said they'd rather have Gordon than Anthony. One person has argued that Gordon is a better scorer than Anthony, but they explicitly said "In general you take Carmelo Anthony because he has the better talent and physical package."

You're getting worked up about things nobody is even saying.

 

[houheffna]

Nobody actually said they'd rather have Gordon than Anthony. One person has argued that Gordon is a better scorer than Anthony, but they explicitly said "In general you take Carmelo Anthony because he has the better talent and physical package."

You're getting worked up about things nobody is even saying.

Lets stroll down crazy statement memory lane...shall we?

Carmelo Anthony might be more skilled (which is debatable because Gordon has as many offensive moves as anyone in the league)...so then it simply comes down to Anthony having the better body, which is a given.

But at the end of the day, Ben Gordon was better at scoring the ball than Carmelo Anthony last year. The stats are the results of what happened on the court, and the results say Gordon was better.

To say that Carmelo Anthony is more SKILLED than Gordon is debatable? Gordon goes to bed at night and dreams of being Carmelo Anthony! Gordon has a many offensive moves as anyone in the league? Just like Waddle said "dribble, dribble, shoot...dribble, dribble, shoot, shoot.....Maybe on your playstation, but not in the real NBA! Gordon and Melo are not at all on the same level when i comes to playing baskeball

In general you take Carmelo Anthony because he has the better talent and physical package.

But if this becomes a regular trend, where Gordon it outplaying Carmelo, then you obviously take Gordon. No use ignoring the results. In the past, Anthony was scoring something like 28 PPG at ~56 TS%. Then, no doubt, you take Carmelo, while in most years, he probably is scoring a little less efficiently than Gordon, the volume trade off is worth it. But if Carmelo continues to have years like last year, where his volume is down, and he's not scoring that effiiently, than you easily take Gordon and don't really think twice about it.

Gordon HAS NEVER outplayed Carmelo Anthony. Carmelo is legitmate Top 10 talent, and its easy to see. you easily take Gordon and dont think twice about it? Unbelievable? Even if he has years like last year, HE WAS A BETTER PLAYER LAST YEAR!

 

[engies]

Carmello is a top 10 player i agree. I still prefer Ben Gordon's attitude and shooting. At least Ben gives a damn on defense. I prefer players who have the will to try as hard as they can on every possession than those who decide to play half the time.

I definately wouldnt be as upset if Ben was gone for Carmello, but your Ben Gordon hate is quite redicolous hou

 

[Fred]

I'd trade BG for Anthony, and I'm a BG fan. Anthony really impressed me in the playoffs this year. He was absolutely fantastic in every game I watched. He's clearly a top-10 player in the league. Ben's a really solid player, but he's more top 35. BG does shoot the 3 better than Carmello, and he's a better FT shooter, but that's about it IMO. A more appropriate question is whether or not you would trade D. Rose for Carmello. I wouldn't, just because I believe Rose has the potential to be the better player.

In the NBA, there's the clear top 5:

Lebron
Kobe
Wade
Chris Paul
Howard

In the second 5, I'd definitely have
D. Williams
C. Anthony
The remaining 3 spots are debatable. I was just having the conversation about Pau Gasol...is he #10 on the top 10 list of NBA players this year? Maybe so.

 

[Fred]

houheffna wrote:

Just like Waddle said "dribble, dribble, shoot...dribble, dribble, shoot, shoot.....

Tom Waddle, NBA expert. Yes, Dribbling and shooting are 2 of the actions you can take on the court. He can also pass, which he did pretty well this year. BG isn't Anthony, true. But he's pretty good. And unless we can get Anthony or Bosh for him, get ready for a lot of sub 80 point offensive nights like we witnessed when BG was out for 10 games in 07-08.

Games like this beauty:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801300MIN.html

 

[Dpauley23]

Dwight Howards not top 5 player in the league. He has one post move, no faceup game, and can't dribble to save his life.

 

[MADman24]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Dwight Howards not top 5 player in the league. He has one post move, no faceup game, and can't dribble to save his life.

He lead the league in boards, blocks and averaged 20 a game. If he's not top 5 who takes his place?

 

[??? ??????]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Dwight Howards not top 5 player in the league. He has one post move, no faceup game, and can't dribble to save his life.

But he's the best defender and rebounder in the league, and still managed to score over 20 points a game on a great efficiency.

 

[AirP]

Tom Waddle, NBA expert. Yes, Dribbling and shooting are 2 of the actions you can take on the court. He can also pass, which he did pretty well this year. BG isn't Anthony, true. But he's pretty good. And unless we can get Anthony or Bosh for him, get ready for a lot of sub 80 point offensive nights like we witnessed when BG was out for 10 games in 07-08.

Games like this beauty:

www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801300MIN.html

Or the game before it...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801290CHI.html

 

[??? ??????]

Well it's encouraging that we can split the season series against the Timberwolves with an 8-36 record without Gordon.

 

[MADman24]

AirP wrote:

Or the game before it...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200801290CHI.html

I'm not saying either or you are right but that game was more of an abnormality, Viktor Khryapa scored 11 in under 15 minutes.

 

[Simeon2UC]

Check it, has there ever been a team that won a Championship without paying Tax?

 

[houheffna]

Carmello is a top 10 player i agree. I still prefer Ben Gordon's attitude and shooting. At least Ben gives a damn on defense. I prefer players who have the will to try as hard as they can on every possession than those who decide to play half the time.

I definately wouldnt be as upset if Ben was gone for Carmello, but your Ben Gordon hate is quite redicolous hou

The Ben Gordon "hate" is non-existent. When Ben Gordon is on the court in a Bulls uniform, I root for Ben to hit every shot he takes, no matter how crazy the shot might be. I also root for him to pass the ball to the open man, I am ofttimes disappointed.

You name the team, I have a strong opinion about the player. I have argued with people over Urlacher, Orton, Grossman, Konerko, Dye, you name 'em. At the end of the day when the ball goes up, I root for Gordon to get 50, just like I do Rose and everybody else on the team, if that means we will win.

I have stated many, many times before...keep Gordon as a sixth man and get a SG with size and defense. And use Salmons while you are at it since he is here on roster. I have pointed out that other teams has the better position player coming off the bench constantly. Then Gordon's job is to come in and start shooting.

I have mentioned Stacey King, Kendall Gill, Norm Van Lier, Scottie Pippen all in criticisms of Ben Gordon's game. People would refute those arguments. Dan Bernstein agrees with Stacey King, he is just more adamant on the air about it. And just as Fred seems more congenial on the forums, where his words are precise and well thought out as opposed to his rants which sounds like Christian Bale railing away at an extra on set.

I don't think my criticisms about Gordon are much compared to the overwhelming love for Gordon's game to the point where he is a top 5 SG and indispensable. I happen to disagree.

 

[dunkside.com]

engies wrote:

Carmello is a top 10 player i agree. I still prefer Ben Gordon's attitude and shooting. At least Ben gives a damn on defense. I prefer players who have the will to try as hard as they can on every possession than those who decide to play half the time.

I definately wouldnt be as upset if Ben was gone for Carmello, but your Ben Gordon hate is quite redicolous hou

you think carmelo doesn't give a damn about offense ?
you might get away with saying he doesn't give a damn about defense (although he shown some improvement).

you think he got to the WCF without trying hard ?

just because it's more difficult for ben to get off a shot it doesn't mean the others don't work hard. in fact, this is an argument AGAINST ben. he has to work twice as hard than someone like melo to get the same shot. you generally want to have the easiest shot, you don't actually want your team to take shots with the degree of difficulty similar to those of the shots gordon took against the celtics. yeah, he made them, but statistically is much better to just get a good open shot, cause circus shots fall far less often than those open shots.

and i don't know about his previous statements, but the one you quoted showed no hate for gordon. it just stated FACTS.

 

[dunkside.com]

Dpauley23 wrote:

Dwight Howards not top 5 player in the league. He has one post move, no faceup game, and can't dribble to save his life.

he can't knit either. what a bust.

(at least i am sure now that this is not the mensa forum)