Knicks tried to acquire Hinrich

[jsain360]

houheffna wrote:

Its one thing to say that you are trading Hinrich to trade Hinrich. But acting as if Jeffries is a better player is altogether different...and not true. Jeffries is a journeyman frontcourt player who really doesn't have a position. He has never been an important piece to any team at any time.

Just say you don't like Hinrich and want to get rid of him...but shouting out the basketball virtues of Jared Jeffries is bit much.

Jeffries is one of the most sorriest players I've ever seen, this man is certified TRASH!

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Shakes wrote:

He's also one of the most useless players on the offensive end in the NBA. Which is exactly the opposite of what the team needs. If we're getting something useless back for Hinrich it better expire.

You do realize that Jeffries is shooting a full 7% better from the field this year? I would be down for this trade if we could get Nate Robinson and Pargo thrown in.

Do you realise his usage rate is in the single digits? He's got OK efficiency because he never does anything.

That is somehow better than a player with a higher usage and lower effiecency? Why not get Jalen Rose out of retirement then. Jeffries isn't better than kirk but he is owed roughly half as much. If 2010 fails, dealing kirk will keep 2011 alive. I also would insist that nate robinson and pargo are included in the deal.

 

[pinkizdead]

bullsman24 wrote:

i think i want jeffries. but i have no freaking idea why the knicks would want kirk if they're aiming for 2012, they'd prob make us take some crap off their hands too. i mean why else would they do this??? they're taking long term salary.

i think they realized they need to pay some players that aren't stars whom they can build with. Kirk is only makeing slightly more than jefferies and he's a better pg than duhon. If they have to have players salaries, they might as well have useful ones. jefferies is a defender that's really more of a role player than a starter. kirk offers them a decent to above average starting pg. he could be a nice raja bell in d'antoni's offense.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

Its one thing to say that you are trading Hinrich to trade Hinrich. But acting as if Jeffries is a better player is altogether different...and not true. Jeffries is a journeyman frontcourt player who really doesn't have a position. He has never been an important piece to any team at any time.

Just say you don't like Hinrich and want to get rid of him...but shouting out the basketball virtues of Jared Jeffries is bit much.

i like hinrich, but i want him on a different team. he's not a s hooter, and he doesnt fit on this team.

do a thought experiment. imagine hinrich made 3 million a year, we all would love him! he'd be like our rudy fernandez. he hustles. he makes shots sometimes,b ut not at a high enough rate to be our 2 guard, and he can run the offense. plus he's a decent defender. now imagine he makes 9 milion. do you feel the same way about him? i dont.

 

[houheffna]

When I look at Hinrich's role on the team, I am not looking at it from the view of a "capologist", I am talking about his skill set. He is someone who offers a lot of versatility on both sides of the court, but I definitely find him expendable. I just don't think he is garbage like some on this forum think.

 

[pinkizdead]

a player's contract is an important part of "him" and his part of the team. rashard lewis's contract is skrewing up the magic. also weren't you the guy clammering for gordon's departure being a good thing , because his contract wasn't worth it ?

 

[houheffna]

a player's contract is an important part of "him" and his part of the team. rashard lewis's contract is skrewing up the magic. also weren't you the guy clammering for gordon's departure being a good thing , because his contract wasn't worth it ?

basically what I have said about Gordon on this forum is that he is overrated...severely overrated...

He was a free agent...I said you don't pay him 12mil for what he can do. I have also said that all of the players are expendable just as I said in my previous entry. I haven't changed my feelings.

But lets use your argument of getting rid of overpriced players...you should be relieved that we didn't sign Gordon to that amount of money in the first place according to your philosophy.

 

[pinkizdead]

i am.

i'm pissed we didnt sign gordon for 8 million.

 

[pinkizdead]

i also really dont want joe johnson for 17 million.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

That is somehow better than a player with a higher usage and lower effiecency? Why not get Jalen Rose out of retirement then. Jeffries isn't better than kirk but he is owed roughly half as much. If 2010 fails, dealing kirk will keep 2011 alive. I also would insist that nate robinson and pargo are included in the deal.

His TS% is only a couple of percent better than Hinrich, and while Hinrich has been awful up until this point, at least he seems to be picking up. Jeffries is having (for him) an average year. Plus he's a forward, so he's got to beat out Deng/Thomas/Gibson/Johnson for minutes, not Hinrich.

Why trade Hinrich for Jeffries now? Why not wait and see what other offers we can get? Surely Hinrich's value is going back up since he's showing he's healthy and finally starting to play better?

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

When I look at Hinrich's role on the team, I am not looking at it from the view of a "capologist", I am talking about his skill set. He is someone who offers a lot of versatility on both sides of the court, but I definitely find him expendable. I just don't think he is garbage like some on this forum think.

Hinrich is definitely not garbage. He is a skilled player. And he is expendable. But there's something that gets over looked in regards to him, particularly this season. He's finally turning into the vocal leader on the court that this team desperately needs. You can see it when he's on the floor. The communcation between players, especially on the defensive end, is greatly improved when he's out there. This team has too many quiet players. They need a coach on the floor & Kirk is starting to provide that, even if his play has been incredibly mediocre to downright terrible this season. Kirk moving back into the starting lineup is the best thing that could happen for him. Unfortunately, Salmons will probably continue to be piss poor as a bench player & will end up sulking instead of trying to work his way back to becoming a solid contributor on this team.

 

[pinkizdead]

well unless we trade him, get used to him being your starting two guard for the next 3 years.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

houheffna wrote:

When I look at Hinrich's role on the team, I am not looking at it from the view of a "capologist", I am talking about his skill set. He is someone who offers a lot of versatility on both sides of the court, but I definitely find him expendable. I just don't think he is garbage like some on this forum think.

Hinrich is definitely not garbage. He is a skilled player. And he is expendable. But there's something that gets over looked in regards to him, particularly this season. He's finally turning into the vocal leader on the court that this team desperately needs. You can see it when he's on the floor. The communcation between players, especially on the defensive end, is greatly improved when he's out there. This team has too many quiet players. They need a coach on the floor & Kirk is starting to provide that, even if his play has been incredibly mediocre to downright terrible this season. Kirk moving back into the starting lineup is the best thing that could happen for him. Unfortunately, Salmons will probably continue to be piss poor as a bench player & will end up sulking instead of trying to work his way back to becoming a solid contributor on this team.

Exactly, who else would throw a lob at the basket and override the coaches play. I mean that certainly has a higher success rate then a rose iso play. That kinda leadership can't be replaced.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

That is somehow better than a player with a higher usage and lower effiecency? Why not get Jalen Rose out of retirement then. Jeffries isn't better than kirk but he is owed roughly half as much. If 2010 fails, dealing kirk will keep 2011 alive. I also would insist that nate robinson and pargo are included in the deal.

His TS% is only a couple of percent better than Hinrich, and while Hinrich has been awful up until this point, at least he seems to be picking up. Jeffries is having (for him) an average year. Plus he's a forward, so he's got to beat out Deng/Thomas/Gibson/Johnson for minutes, not Hinrich.

Why trade Hinrich for Jeffries now? Why not wait and see what other offers we can get? Surely Hinrich's value is going back up since he's showing he's healthy and finally starting to play better?

Shakes, I only want the trade if Pargo and Nate Robinson get thrown in. I like Kirk but if nothing better comes along and we still suck, I do this deal at the deadline. I agree with the wait and see approach, you are right we should wait till the deadline. I wasn't insisting we do it tomorrow.

 

[Diddy1122]

TheStig wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

houheffna wrote:

When I look at Hinrich's role on the team, I am not looking at it from the view of a "capologist", I am talking about his skill set. He is someone who offers a lot of versatility on both sides of the court, but I definitely find him expendable. I just don't think he is garbage like some on this forum think.

Hinrich is definitely not garbage. He is a skilled player. And he is expendable. But there's something that gets over looked in regards to him, particularly this season. He's finally turning into the vocal leader on the court that this team desperately needs. You can see it when he's on the floor. The communcation between players, especially on the defensive end, is greatly improved when he's out there. This team has too many quiet players. They need a coach on the floor & Kirk is starting to provide that, even if his play has been incredibly mediocre to downright terrible this season. Kirk moving back into the starting lineup is the best thing that could happen for him. Unfortunately, Salmons will probably continue to be piss poor as a bench player & will end up sulking instead of trying to work his way back to becoming a solid contributor on this team.

Exactly, who else would throw a lob at the basket and override the coaches play. I mean that certainly has a higher success rate then a rose iso play. That kinda leadership can't be replaced.

I never claimed he made the offense better with his leadership, but the defense, I'd have to say yes.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

houheffna wrote:

When I look at Hinrich's role on the team, I am not looking at it from the view of a "capologist", I am talking about his skill set. He is someone who offers a lot of versatility on both sides of the court, but I definitely find him expendable. I just don't think he is garbage like some on this forum think.

Hinrich is definitely not garbage. He is a skilled player. And he is expendable. But there's something that gets over looked in regards to him, particularly this season. He's finally turning into the vocal leader on the court that this team desperately needs. You can see it when he's on the floor. The communcation between players, especially on the defensive end, is greatly improved when he's out there. This team has too many quiet players. They need a coach on the floor & Kirk is starting to provide that, even if his play has been incredibly mediocre to downright terrible this season. Kirk moving back into the starting lineup is the best thing that could happen for him. Unfortunately, Salmons will probably continue to be piss poor as a bench player & will end up sulking instead of trying to work his way back to becoming a solid contributor on this team.

Exactly, who else would throw a lob at the basket and override the coaches play. I mean that certainly has a higher success rate then a rose iso play. That kinda leadership can't be replaced.

I never claimed he made the offense better with his leadership, but the defense, I'd have to say yes.

The defense is average. I don't see Kirk's leadership. Sorry, I'd rather get rid of him and make noah or rose step it up.

 

[Diddy1122]

TheStig wrote:

Sorry, I'd rather get rid of him and make noah or rose step it up.

I agree. Leadership is not enough to warrant keeping Kirk around, especially with the way he's played on the offensive end this year.

 

[TheStig]

Diddy1122 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Sorry, I'd rather get rid of him and make noah or rose step it up.

I agree. Leadership is not enough to warrant keeping Kirk around, especially with the way he's played on the offensive end this year.

He could just be so productive in a place like LA.

 

[pinkizdead]

he's a decent pg. he's above average and could be a starter. he's a good to decent defender. he's not a shooter, but he could be a fourth scoring option. He would flouring in the fischer role, but he's not very clutch. if he can learn to put in shooting open jump shots, he would not only be valuable to them, he 'd be valuable to us. all we need form hinrich is to knock down open shots at a consistent rate,

 

[Shakes]

I'm surprised a team like the Lakers didn't try to get Hinrich last year when he was playing well. Playing PG next to a superstar is really an ideal situation for him, if all he's asked to do on offense is bring the ball up then throw it to the star and wait for the open shot then the fact he's not a really great playmaker and can't score going to the hoop to save himself is hidden. I even suspect he'd get away with more on defense if he was playing on a top team (witness how few fouls Bowen got for the Spurs).