Forty-six
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Good points.
Good points.
Mighty Joe Young
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How many of those are there that succeed?
I guess you'll be shocked when you find out THAT.
Exceptions to the rule are exceptions for a REASON.
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That's speculative as, unfortunately, there is no way to prove or disprove that anyone's career can be ruined by an organization. The only real barometer we have is performance; in the case of Trubisky, you have an additional data point of performance in two different organizations and offenses: Bears and Steelers. There's examples of players moving on to different teams and revitalizing their careers (or at least, improving significantly) such as Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield, Drew Brees, Ryan Tannehill. However, in the case of Tannehill, he regressed back to mean over time (and most would agree he isn't a franchise qb). There's also cases of QBs going elsewhere and ultimately failing or worsening such as Russel Wilson and Carson Wentz (though Wentz definitely went downhill while still in Philly - his precipitous degradation in performance is still bogglingly enigmatic to me).
That's a bit of revisionist history though. Calling Trubisky, who was the #1 QB on lots of media draft boards at QB (won't speculate on teams' draft boards as those are publicly published), not the 'right pitch,' seems obvious in retrospect, but wasn't so at the time of the draft because of the aforementioned draft pundits analysis of QB prospects at the time. Fields, also at the time he was drafted, was touted as 'QB1-B' behind QB1A, Trevor Lawrence, and held that position since really high school. Some claim the revelation of Fields' epilepsy might have contributed to his draft fall, but I'd say, most other teams that drafted other QBs before Fields were the ones that tried to outsmart everyone (and thus, outsmarted themselves). Wilson and Trey Lance were surprise picks over Fields and I don't think anyone is disputing which of the three are better - it's Fields and it isn't close.
Hyperbole aside, I think implying something that is widely debated here on the forums, in the media, amongst active players, and throughout the general online community a "no-brainer" makes it decidedly not a "no-brainer" decision. That only serves to denigrate anyone with an opposing viewpoint to the one you're positing, but ultimately undermines your position as it's a clear fallacy to label something so widely argued as clear-cut as you assert. The prominent illeist himself, Shoopster, often touting his own sensible pragmatism, should be capable of rationally conceptualizing both sides of a pervasive debate, no? I'd argue they never did outsmart themselves in either swings for first round QBs they just simply made the wrong pick - not due to arrogance, but rather because of the uncertainty that any draft prospect presents. The was a thread not too long ago that listed a bunch of first QBs in the draft taken and the hit rate was less than 50%. Now, that either speaks to the vast ineptitude of scouting within organizations of the highest echelons of football (only 32 NFL scouting teams and GMs) or that these draft picks are anything but assured. Implying, it takes a combination of luck along with competence simply to have a greater chance of striking gold on your next field general.
Drafting itself is a wild card among a deck of uncertainties that the prognosticator of prognosticators can't augury. We don't know what Poles will do, we don't know what input Kevin Warren has, we don't know what input Kevin Warren would give...we just don't know.
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Interesting points, '94, but only one correction on something I might have made clearer: I personally don't think it's a no-brainer to take Williams. He's not even top name on the shoopster's board. There are several potential scenarios that could constitute the right answer for this year's #1 pick, including trading it away and bringing in a bridge quarterback, which is a scenario I believe may gain momentum with the Bears as time goes on (for all the wrong reasons).
Obviously the Bears aren't the only franchise to miss badly on first-round QBs. It would be interesting to see how many have missed on two in a row, though, in such spectacular fashion that the QB's future as a starter in the league is in question, as it appears the Bears have. That seems unusual.
It's also indicative of the other problem - the coaching. Anyone connected with the failure of these two quarterbacks should not be around to pollute another one. Nagy paid with his job; Everflus will as well. That takes care of the punitive portion of the misfire, but how will it get fixed? Will Pudge Poles be left alone to hire whomever he wants as Head Coach? Or will King George place calls to fossils like Ernie Accorsi and Bill Polian so he can throw in his unnecessary 2 cents. Or will Virginia - who's supposedly tired of and embarrassed by all the losing - try to meddle in Poles's business. All speculation obviously but as we've seen anything is possible with this dysfunctional franchise.
If Poles is left alone the way he should be, and is allowed to present a clean slate to forward-thinking head coaches, he will likely succeed. If he decides trading the pick is the right thing to do, the shoopster will support him. If he decides Fields deserves another shot at resurrecting his career in Chicago, the shoopster will support that, even though I now disagree. I personally don't think he's going to decide on either of those options, as the opportunity to clean the slate and build his own team is too great to ignore, especially considering the consequences if he sticks with the coaching staff and/or Fields and we get more inconsistency. The difference in where we are now compared to where we've been is that the Bears finally appear to have a GM who knows what he's doing - if they let him . . .
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Now I’m curious as to how this compares to the rest of the nfl. You got those stats?
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That’s a lot of busts not to mention:
A 1st for Rick Mirer, no TD passes in 7games.
2 1st rounders for Cutler just to waste 7 out of 8 seasons. If Calvin Johnson’s TD catch counted in week 1 of the 2010 season, the Bears miss the playoffs that year.
A 1st for Rick Mirer, no TD passes in 7games.
2 1st rounders for Cutler just to waste 7 out of 8 seasons. If Calvin Johnson’s TD catch counted in week 1 of the 2010 season, the Bears miss the playoffs that year.
UChiLAbear
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Also, trading a No. 1 to the Browns for Mike Phipps...Browns draft Ozzie Newsome....HOF as a player and should be included as far as management. He has had the Ravens in the hunt for 2 decades...... nuff said....
Enasic
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Don’t forget passing on Tom Brady
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Close race between him and Jonathan Quinn for the worst quarterback I've ever seen . . .
UChiLAbear
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We must never forget to add Rusty Lisch to the list of All-Time worst QBs...
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Wasn't he a punter? . . .
UChiLAbear
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Don't remember that....maybe he was the emergency punter....he was as ex-ND QB and Bear,,,,,,among a few other teams
Szlachcic
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All those years Bears drafted QBs at #1 never had an offense loaded with necessary talent to compete. For Bears the defense was top priority and that's where most money went. The offense was an afterthought..
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Ginny says that's how Papa Bear won in the Forties . . .
pdxbearsfan
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Oh, they need to draft a QB to develop nearly every year, just not the next savior. Looking at that list and not knowing
who else was available when, this is not a good track record. Many people made all those decisions but still why do some folks
think they will all of a sudden get it right this time if they move off Fields?
pdxbearsfan
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The last sentence in the second paragraph is what causes me to pause vs. getting proper coaching and picks and players
to build around a guy with a ton of natural talent.
bears51/40
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If you believe Poles is making the right moves, then Yes.
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I know but they've gotta keep trying when the opportunity is there.
I know everyone regards me as a Fields-hater - I'm not. Yes, I'm disappointed in his progress and he has to own some of that. But the Bears damaged him just as they damaged Trubisky. No one really faulted the Bears for doing what they did when they took both of them. Sure, Trubisky might have been a bit of a reach but no one knew then that Mahomes was going to turn into what he did. Nor did anyone know Trubisky was so soft-headed he would be content - and actually prefer - standing on the sidelines with a clipboard over running the NFL's charter franchise. In Fields's case, his shortcomings that have emerged would have also been pretty hard to detect, though there were signs that were overlooked because of the wealth of raw potential he possesses.
The Bears, for the most part, did what they were supposed to do. And the coaches fucked it up. When an investment like that is made and the coaches are such a significant part of pi55ing away the 3-to-4 years that get spent on a quarterback who doesn't work out, the coaches must pay. And when you reload, you can't say, "well, I'm not ready for this. Let's keep educating ourselves and give a Franchise Quarterback another try in a couple of years." You reload and try again.
If the Bears are ready to move on from Fields, you have to take another shot at a franchise quarterback, especially when you're holding the #1 pick. And you can't hand that franchise quarterback to a Head Coach who already fvvked one up. That's why Everlose has been as good as gone since Fields's horrendous start and subsequent injury.
Not to mention Alan Williams's pantsless practices for the defense . . .
pdxbearsfan
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To me "going for it" is trading the 1st pick 2 years in a row, unheard of. If he takes picks and players and hits plus gets proper
coaching staff to bring out the natural talent in Fields they are setup for years of success and Poles owns Chicago.
Going for it is "go big or go home".
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In the NFL?