Lookin like Otani is now going to be posted...

[SilenceS]

FYI, your posts suck and so does your logic. You said he was offered more money by other teams and I'm asking you to back that up. If Nats offered $200M over 9+ years, then that's not more money than what the Cubs offered.

Take a math class sometime.

lol priceless.


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[Diehardfan]

This works so much better....

Jorgeramos
Member
This message is hidden because Jorgeramos is on your Troll ignore list.

 

[SilenceS]

This works so much better....

Jorgeramos
Member
This message is hidden because Jorgeramos is on your Troll ignore list.

Im going to boot him soon enough. He isnt funny. I like funny trolls.

 

[RacerX]

NYY, Seattle, Rangers, Astros, Boston. After that you start to get into the NL and honestly Cubs and Dodgers are the 2 most attractive NL teams. But the lacking of a DH will diminish their hopes.

Don't sleep on the Giants, I believe the top-2 are NYY and LAD, with Cubs and Gigantes close behind.

 

[beckdawg]

NYY, Seattle, Rangers, Astros, Boston. After that you start to get into the NL and honestly Cubs and Dodgers are the 2 most attractive NL teams. But the lacking of a DH will diminish their hopes.

I don't really think the DH thing is going to factor in. Realistically speaking you're not going to DH him daily and then pitch him every 5th day. It would wear him down far too quickly. On the contrary however, in the NL he gets to hit when he pitches. And you can also use him in PH situations which is a bonus for him and the team as most teams don't have a decent pitcher to hit with. Also I don't see the DH thing being legit because while he may end up being a good hitter he's probably not DH quality hitter where you stick a great hitter with no defense.

 

[brett05]

No, they didnt. Cardinals and Nats made a bigger offer. We have been over this and you refuse to take it as fact.

"According to a Fox Sports report, the Nationals bid $200 million for Heyward, and another team, believed to be the Cardinals, also offered $200 million, meaning Heyward took less money to play for the Cubs."

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14343750/chicago-cubs-add-offseason-haul-agreeing-jason-heyward

We have and you are still wrong, his average per year highest with the Cubs...also the value of two opt out years. He took the top deal, thinking otherwise is incorrect.

 

[beckdawg]

We have and you are still wrong, his average per year highest with the Cubs...also the value of two opt out years. He took the top deal, thinking otherwise is incorrect.

Pretty sure you're splitting hairs here. The contract value was more. You're obviously arguing for the case of AAV being more valuable than guaranteed money but ask yourself this, would Heyward get the AAV of the current contract for however many additional years they may have offered at this point? That's the value of long term deals. You're guaranteed that money where as shorter term deals pay higher with less guarantee.

As for the opt out clauses, I'm certain there would have been one in any deal he got. That's just the state of the game these days. Whether or not there would have been 2 is debatable in my eyes but that goes back to the initial point which is the cubs find creative ways to sign guys.

 

[CSF77]

Don't sleep on the Giants, I believe the top-2 are NYY and LAD, with Cubs and Gigantes close behind.

Dark horse team and honestly a team that has had success. They would be a top 10

 

[CSF77]

I don't really think the DH thing is going to factor in. Realistically speaking you're not going to DH him daily and then pitch him every 5th day. It would wear him down far too quickly. On the contrary however, in the NL he gets to hit when he pitches. And you can also use him in PH situations which is a bonus for him and the team as most teams don't have a decent pitcher to hit with. Also I don't see the DH thing being legit because while he may end up being a good hitter he's probably not DH quality hitter where you stick a great hitter with no defense.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=otani-000sho

 

[CSF77]

He was getting 200-300 AB's per year. He could start in the field if he was not a pitcher.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

He was getting 200-300 AB's per year. He could start in the field if he was not a pitcher.

He could, which I think adds to his value, but as much as he wants to hit if he's truly the second best pitcher in the world after Kershaw he's strictly a pitcher to me and because money isn't an issue I wonder if that won't be the key factor.

 

[brett05]

Pretty sure you're splitting hairs here. The contract value was more. You're obviously arguing for the case of AAV being more valuable than guaranteed money but ask yourself this, would Heyward get the AAV of the current contract for however many additional years they may have offered at this point? That's the value of long term deals. You're guaranteed that money where as shorter term deals pay higher with less guarantee.

As for the opt out clauses, I'm certain there would have been one in any deal he got. That's just the state of the game these days. Whether or not there would have been 2 is debatable in my eyes but that goes back to the initial point which is the cubs find creative ways to sign guys.

The Cubs had to get creative by not only offering the most money per year but providing an option and in this case two options for Heyward to make more. No one is taking away the creativity, the fact is they paid the most too.

 

[brett05]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=otani-000sho

Why has he not pitched much this year?

 

[CSF77]

Why has he not pitched much this year?

Was injured

 

[CSF77]

He could, which I think adds to his value, but as much as he wants to hit if he's truly the second best pitcher in the world after Kershaw he's strictly a pitcher to me and because money isn't an issue I wonder if that won't be the key factor.

We don't know how he translates to MLB talent. I'm honestly thinking Syndagard type talent with a plus bat.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

We don't know how he translates to MLB talent. I'm honestly thinking Syndagard type talent with a plus bat.

I'm not sure where you're going with that. Syndergaard is one of the best pitchers of his generation but is kind of a narcissistic asshole who his team can't control or manage, particularly on the physical side. I would give up the proverbial "left nut" to have him leading my pitching staff. When I think of an ideal starting pitcher, outside of the three best pitchers in the game (Kershaw, Kluber and Sale) that's where I start. It sounds to me like maybe your opinion of him is not as high as mine.

 

[brett05]

Was injured

Injured that he could not pitch but could hit? Seems odd

 

[beckdawg]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=otani-000sho

I'm well aware of what he did in japan. I'm also well aware that while the scouts do like his bat it's not other worldly. The scouting reports I've read suggested he would be a low average hitter(.250 range if I recall correctly) with decent power and little speed. IIRC the grades were like 45+ on hit, 55 on power. Fact of the matter is most teams can find that for a DH. It's not a game changing bat especially out of the DH. So frankly I'd be shocked if an AL team moved hitters out of the way to DH him consistently. I remain convinced if he wants to bat he should go to an NL team. He can probably get 100 PAs out of the 9 hole or where ever he bats during games he starts as a pitcher since you wont have to pinch hit for him as often. You could also probably get another 100 out of PH situations on days off.

All that being said I'd be rather shocked to see any team realistically give him more than 300 PAs unless he just is far better than the scouting suggests but even then I'm not sure you screw with his production as a pitcher to maybe get a good offensive player. If he's the real deal as a starter there's no point in screwing with that. It's not like The Giants or Cubs are letting Arrieta and Bumgarner DH during their respective interleague games and those are arguably your two best hitting pitchers in baseball.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Injured that he could not pitch but could hit? Seems odd

It seems odd to me too, but it did happen that way.

 

[DanTown]

Great Fangraphs article on Otani and the costs and what he will likely want

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-to-sign-shohei-otani/

My assumption is that he signs for a year somewhere then instantly signs an extension that pays him handsomely and sets his FA in the season he turns 30. If he comes over in two years then he only gets one deal most likely where as this way he could get two huge deals. You could see something like 6/90 and then he gets a Scherzer type deal making him well over 300M.