Lookin like Otani is now going to be posted...

[Diehardfan]

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that more multi-dimensional players like this haven't popped up. There have been a few that could really do both like Bumgarner and some others that could really hit but their pitching was suspect, like Ken Brett. But back in the day when I played the pitcher was usually the best player on your team. Hitter, pitcher and athlete....not sure why that changed so much. You see some young pitchers come to the plate these days and you wonder if they know which end of the bat to hold....makes you wonder if they ever played the game from any other perspective than the pitching mound.

 

[Parade_Rain]

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised that more multi-dimensional players like this haven't popped up. There have been a few that could really do both like Bumgarner and some others that could really hit but their pitching was suspect, like Ken Brett. But back in the day when I played the pitcher was usually the best player on your team. Hitter, pitcher and athlete....not sure why that changed so much. You see some young pitchers come to the plate these days and you wonder if they know which end of the bat to hold....makes you wonder if they ever played the game from any other perspective than the pitching mound.

Pitchers don't have to be very athletic. They just need to have repeatable mechanics and throw good stuff. Pitchers don't need to impress with a good 60 time. Pitchers don't hit in college unless they are two way players, which is rare, and they get DH'd for in MiLB. Then some clubs don't let them take much BP. There's a reason a lot of pitchers look clueless. In my time coaching high school aged players, I've found that there are quite a few good athletes who can pitch, but can't hit a lick. The hardest thing in sports is just like Ted Williams said...hitting a round ball with a round bat.

 

[SilenceS]

We have and you are still wrong, his average per year highest with the Cubs...also the value of two opt out years. He took the top deal, thinking otherwise is incorrect.

Show where the Cubs offered him more annually? I can show he was offered more money. Your turn


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[TC in Mississippi]

Show where the Cubs offered him more annually? I can show he was offered more money. Your turn


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What I'm trying to figure out in this whole argument is why years matter. Only the total matters. Years are a way for teams to balance out the money. The only way they matter to a player is if they might miss out on another big payday (which is why Stanton's deal is so long and so big). $200 million is more than $184 million. If you're talking cost of money you just need to get a creative accountant.

 

[SilenceS]

What I'm trying to figure out in this whole argument is why years matter. Only the total matters. Years are a way for teams to balance out the money. The only way they matter to a player is if they might miss out on another big payday (which is why Stanton's deal is so long and so big). $200 million is more than $184 million. If you're talking cost of money you just need to get a creative accountant.

It doesn't matter. I just want him to try to fit a round peg in a square hole.


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[CSF77]

I'm not sure where you're going with that. Syndergaard is one of the best pitchers of his generation but is kind of a narcissistic asshole who his team can't control or manage, particularly on the physical side. I would give up the proverbial "left nut" to have him leading my pitching staff. When I think of an ideal starting pitcher, outside of the three best pitchers in the game (Kershaw, Kluber and Sale) that's where I start. It sounds to me like maybe your opinion of him is not as high as mine.

Persona and talent are separate issues

 

[Diehardfan]

Pitchers don't have to be very athletic. They just need to have repeatable mechanics and throw good stuff. Pitchers don't need to impress with a good 60 time. Pitchers don't hit in college unless they are two way players, which is rare, and they get DH'd for in MiLB. Then some clubs don't let them take much BP. There's a reason a lot of pitchers look clueless. In my time coaching high school aged players, I've found that there are quite a few good athletes who can pitch, but can't hit a lick. The hardest thing in sports is just like Ted Williams said...hitting a round ball with a round bat.

Ok, I get that. But when did baseball players become so one dimensional? When did players say...ok, I'm just a pitcher all I need to do is learn how to bunt. When did coaches push them in that direction? I realize it was a long time ago for me but I was never told that and I might have been the worst hitter that ever lived.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Persona and talent are separate issues

Ok, once again I'm confused. Do you not think Syndergaard is an elite talent?

 

[chibears55]

Ok, I get that. But when did baseball players become so one dimensional? When did players say...ok, I'm just a pitcher all I need to do is learn how to bunt. When did coaches push them in that direction? I realize it was a long time ago for me but I was never told that and I might have been the worst hitter that ever lived.

When they signed a pro contract...

Once pitchers get into an organization, the main focus for them is pitching pitching and pitching...

I believe unless a guy enjoys hitting and actually want to spend some time in the cage after their pitching drills, etc. most to all don't really care to pick up a bat anymore...

So, 99% of their time is spent pitching and whatever skill they had hitting wise up until or through college diminishes with lack of practice and just doing it...

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[Diehardfan]

When they signed a pro contract...

Once pitchers get into an organization, the main focus for them is pitching pitching and pitching...

I believe unless a guy enjoys hitting and actually want to spend some time in the cage after their pitching drills, etc. most to all don't really care to pick up a bat anymore...

So, 99% of their time is spent pitching and whatever skill they had hitting wise up until or through college diminishes with lack of practice and just doing it...

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Doubtful....some of these kids have worse swings than my wife. Worse swings than mine and I was brutal. It had to start way earlier than that.

 

[chibears55]

Doubtful....some of these kids have worse swings than my wife. Worse swings than mine and I was brutal. It had to start way earlier than that.

I thought you were asking about pitchers who were good hitters in high school and college...

I your talking just plain bad hitters..
They probably were never good hitters to begin with and were kids who just were just good at throwing balls over the plate fast and developed as a pitcher as they got older learning how to throw curves changeup etc...
Most likely never had to focus too much on hitting cause their coaches just cared about how they pitched..

I've noticed a couple of those during LLWS .. they looked good pitching but were overmatched at the plate

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[brett05]

Ok, I get that. But when did baseball players become so one dimensional? When did players say...ok, I'm just a pitcher all I need to do is learn how to bunt. When did coaches push them in that direction? I realize it was a long time ago for me but I was never told that and I might have been the worst hitter that ever lived.

When the cost of poker went up

 

[brett05]

Ok, once again I'm confused. Do you not think Syndergaard is an elite talent?

if he's not elite, he's like "two starts" short

 

[brett05]

What I'm trying to figure out in this whole argument is why years matter. Only the total matters. Years are a way for teams to balance out the money. The only way they matter to a player is if they might miss out on another big payday (which is why Stanton's deal is so long and so big). $200 million is more than $184 million. If you're talking cost of money you just need to get a creative accountant.

It's the lottery argument wether to take the lump sum or payments.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

It's the lottery argument wether to take the lump sum or payments.

Not really because the difference in payout is not nearly as vast. The Nationals offer was said to have some deferred payments, so I guess that's a fair point with that one, but the Cards offer was $16 mil more with one extra year (obviously we're going by what's been reported). Any good accountant could have made that $200 mil a net win.

 

[brett05]

Not really because the difference in payout is not nearly as vast. The Nationals offer was said to have some deferred payments, so I guess that's a fair point with that one, but the Cards offer was $16 mil more with one extra year (obviously we're going by what's been reported). Any good accountant could have made that $200 mil a net win.

And I agree. But I heard no reports of anyone getting two opt out clauses. That's huge if Heyward would have been as believed to have broken thru like he did for the last year with the Cards. He'd get more for the first three years than anyone else offered and then opt out and make even more. I think at this point there is no chance he opts out and he'll take his $20-22 million per until the contract runs out.

 

[beckdawg]

Interesting takeaway on Otani. As of now, the most anyone can offer him is some where in the range of $3.2-3.5 mil because all the people who weren't under IFA penalty more or less spent a chunk of their available IFA pool. I find that a bit more interesting because it makes the idea of him only taking $300k more reasonable. If you're willing to throw away possibly $200 mil to play in the majors now what's another $3 mil? That's not to say the cubs or any other restricted team are a shoe in but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[CSF77]

Interesting takeaway on Otani. As of now, the most anyone can offer him is some where in the range of $3.2-3.5 mil because all the people who weren't under IFA penalty more or less spent a chunk of their available IFA pool. I find that a bit more interesting because it makes the idea of him only taking $300k more reasonable. If you're willing to throw away possibly $200 mil to play in the majors now what's another $3 mil? That's not to say the cubs or any other restricted team are a shoe in but it's interesting nonetheless.

It matters after 1 year of service time. They will look at previous deals and use that as a guideline. or he may just take a deal where he keeps control of his arb and F/A when he comes up. If he got a Rizzo offer he would laugh at it.

 

[CSF77]

Ok, once again I'm confused. Do you not think Syndergaard is an elite talent?

yes Anyone who can pop the mit with 100 mph plus is that. Add to it a SP vs a 1 inning BP arm that would never hold that velocity after 50 pitches.

 

[CSF77]

And I agree. But I heard no reports of anyone getting two opt out clauses. That's huge if Heyward would have been as believed to have broken thru like he did for the last year with the Cards. He'd get more for the first three years than anyone else offered and then opt out and make even more. I think at this point there is no chance he opts out and he'll take his $20-22 million per until the contract runs out.

If in not mistaken Cards field is pretty big where a guy like him can spray more than a smaller park like wrigg where you tend to have less gaps but shorter HR's.

You put him in a big OF he should produce better. Just bigger gaps in the OF. Wrigg is more of a HR hitters home field.