Louis Riddick on Justin, OC, the Bears Draft Situation etc.

[Enasic]

Watson sucks now and can we at least see Stroud his second year before we crown him?

Yeah, Watson can’t get his medicine anymore and has fallen off a cliff and I agree about Stroud (or any QB), you do need to see it for a few seasons before you know what you got. Hard to see him falling off, but you never know.

 

[napo55]

I didn’t say anything about Williams being automatically elite. More so, disagreeing with riddick that fields is going to take this magical jump in year 4 with a new OC and another weapon.

Surround Williams with only one good WR and an average OL at best and of course he will struggle. It's not an excuse, just a fact.

 

[Enasic]

Surround Williams with only one good WR and an average OL at best and of course he will struggle. It's not an excuse, just a fact.

That is the definition of an opinion, not fact. You’re free to have it, just dont maskerade it as a fact.

Also not sure what your comment has to do with my post whatsoever lol

 

[Speed]

Thanks—good listen.

It’s fear-based philosophy that will keep the Bears from even trying for greatness, but good listen.

Here’s the deal: A lot of people advocating for “THE HAUL!!” are just assuming all those picks will turn out great. They’re doing the same thing they accuse the Williams supporters of doing.

1) Many of them are assuming you’ll get Marvin Harrison, Jr, plus two future first rounders. There’s almost no possible way that happens. If you trade down far enough to get 2 future 1st rounders, that’s too far down to get MHJ. If you only trade down a spot or two, that’s probably not far enough down to gather 2 future 1st rounders.

2) They’re assuming “THE HAUL!!” is “franchise making”. Let’s play this out: The Bears trade down to, say, the high single digits/low double digits and get 2 future 1st rounders. They use those picks on a DT, an edge rusher and, ok fine, a receiver (I have my doubts).

Fast forward a few years when you actually see the fruits of those picks, using THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. You have a great, young, developing DT, edge rusher and receiver. Meanwhile, by this point, you’re paying Fields $40 million a year, you’ve let JJ go because he’s getting too expensive, and you’re taking offers on DJ because he’s also getting expensive and you already have his young great replacement on your team.

^^Does any of this bring you into Super Bowl contention? Or does it just create a mediocre-team cycle?

And mind you, this is the best case scenario. The more likely scenario is “THE HAUL!!” a few years down the line turns into a couple of good players and a couple of busts. Nice haul. Was it worth it? Meanwhile you’re having to watch Stroud kill it in Houston and Williams potentially killing it in Washington or New England.

You still have a mediocre quarterback who’s 3rd or 4th in your division, but hey, at least you’re 9-8 and didn’t have to take a risk!


Bottom line: “THE HAUL!” is not the guarantee some people think it is. Neither is Williams. I acknowledge that. But I’d like my team to try instead of always being scared.

We’ve seen this team in recent years have all world defenses, Hall of Fame linebackers, All-Pro edge rushers, an offense full of skill position Pro Bowl playmakers.

And where has it gotten them?

You know what they haven’t had? A great quarterback.

I want a great quarterback.

I'm 99% of the way there with you. With that said we start with properly assessing Williams. Whether us as individuals personally agrees or not, he's being hyped up by the NFL Community as a once a decade type of player. Potential, Magic Johnson, Shaq, LeBron, Wembanyama... Type of draft.

I'm not making any predictions, but IF that's the case then the ole Jimmy Johnson draft value chart can go in the trash can. Because if possible there is nothing you wouldn't trade to get Magic, Shaq, Bron, Wemby, There's nothing you wouldn't trade to get one of those guys on your team. If he's being assessed to that level around the league a lot of the conventional wisdom should be tossed out of the window. IF that's the case can see a pathway for Washington or New England offering the kitchen sink for Williams if everyone does their deep dive and the consensus comes back that he's the shit.

Which begs the question if the Commies, Pats, and others DO offer a Carolina type package (or ever better) to move up a spot or two, why aren't we taking him ourselves?

 

[LiverpoolBearsFAn]

I don't think Riddick said that was going to take a magical leap. Riddick pointed out how Fields was steadily improving and that a staff that built a plan around Fields could help get more out of him.

I’m not sure I see the steadily improving - what do you base that assessment on? Statistics don’t bear it out. I was excited about Fields making the next step this year but to me unfortunately he categorically didn’t.

Passer rating, comp % etc all close to the same. QBR significantly lower and all this with his first elite receiver. He also missed significant games again with an injury and rushed for fewer yards with a much lower YPC. This 3rd year should have been the big step forward, by now you know what you have.

Genuinely interested in what areas you would say the improvement showed. To me I think there is a stronger case to say he regressed slightly or at best plateaued and that’s why I want to draft a QB.

I would sum it up as they gave him the chance to pass more, but he put up similar numbers with better receivers whilst his rushing performance dropped. I know Getsy was crap but he had the same OC both seasons so this factually shows little or no progress.

 

[modo]

I’m not sure I see the steadily improving - what do you base that assessment on? Statistics don’t bear it out. I was excited about Fields making the next step this year and to me unfortunately he didn’t.

Passer rating, comp % etc all close to the same. QBR significantly lower and all this with his first elite receiver. He also missed significant games again with an injury and rushed for fewer yards with a much lower YPC. This 3rd year should have been the big step forward, by now you know what you have.

Genuinely interested in what areas you would say the improvement showed. To me I think there is a stronger case to say he regressed slightly or at best plateaued and that’s why I want to draft a QB.

Statistics actually do bear it out...

He has improved in almost every category

Just about all of them have gone up year over year. The Bears offense has gotten better year over year. The coaching staff has commented he has gotten better.

I have no idea how you look at the year and say he regressed. His accuracy went up. He started hitting checkdowns as the year went on, his deep ball was looking better as the year went on. His sack percentage decreased significantly, on average as the year went on.

All but a few minor stats increased year over year for all three years...

Of course it doesn't matter what any of us believe, as fans.

 

[LiverpoolBearsFAn]

Which categories has he improved in to any significant level? You mentioned accuracy but does 60.4 to 61.4 show improvement or plateau with improved receivers? This is 31st in the league. Same with his passer rating of 85 to 86 - I think you need to see this in the 90s to show a step forward and elite potential.

These are just numbers remaining in the ‘mediocre’ category. The statistics are very similar from 22 to 23 and to me after 3 years in the NFL that says ‘this is Justin Fields’. There is no prior example of a QB playing at this level for 3 years then becoming a top ten performer, they’ve all made the step by now.

 

[Canth]

Nobody is advocating for the Bears to stop trying to get better after drafting Caleb Williams.

I have not read the whole thread yet, but I would add on to this comment...whether they draft a new QB or keep Fields, they -have- to put more resources into the offense. They cannot simply go, "we got a qb" and think that is the end of the story. Any of these QB's will need more resources on offense and not just day 3 picks and cheap FA's.

 

[TL1961]

You clearly aren’t reading this forum

Literally nobody who feels drafting Williams is the way to go claims he is automatically elite.

Nobody.

Half the board wants to keep fields and half the board wants to draft Williams but for shit sake let’s at least be honest and not be disingenuous about it.

Make your argument if you feel it’s a valid one but don’t misstate the other guys arguments.

 

[Brownie]

I have not read the whole thread yet, but I would add on to this comment...whether they draft a new QB or keep Fields, they -have- to put more resources into the offense. They cannot simply go, "we got a qb" and think that is the end of the story. Any of these QB's will need more resources on offense and not just day 3 picks and cheap FA's.

Totally agree.

I also think that, if after doing due diligence, if you don't believe Williams is a marked improvement over Fields (all around talent, leadership, smarts, can handle this city and being an NFL QB)... than the obvious move is to stick with what you have and get the haul of draft capital to add those additional resources.

Alot of people want Williams so bad that their response is simply telling us how bad Fields is. I don't hear much about:

...what CW actually does better than JF,

...JFs actual unique strengths,

...the REAL trade off that is the additional picks we can get from trading out,

...the fact that if all else fails, we would still have another TWO first round picks next year to go QB if we want

...or that there might even be another QB better suited for us in THIS draft besides CW.

They're falling in love with a player which is the same thing Pace did with Mitch.

 

[playthrough2001]

We may see CJ Stroud start his career legacy today if he beats the Ravens who are clearly the better team. There are QBs across the league that have it and others who don't.

How did that go?

 

[modo]

Totally agree.

I also think that, if after doing due diligence, if you don't believe Williams is a marked improvement over Fields (all around talent, leadership, smarts, can handle this city and being an NFL QB)... than the obvious move is to stick with what you have and get the haul of draft capital to add those additional resources.

Alot of people want Williams so bad that their response is simply telling us how bad Fields is. I don't hear much about:

...what CW actually does better than JF,

...JFs actual unique strengths,

...the REAL trade off that is the additional picks we can get from trading out,

...the fact that if all else fails, we would still have another TWO first round picks next year to go QB if we want

...or that there might even be another QB better for suited for us in THIS draft besides CW.

They're falling in love with a player which is the same thing Pace did with Mitch.

What people dislike about Fields seems to be Williams issue as well...hanging on to the ball

Fairly certain Williams hangs on to the ball longer than Fields did in college...

 

[PrideisBears]

Literally nobody who feels drafting Williams is the way to go claims he is automatically elite.

Nobody.

Half the board wants to keep fields and half the board wants to draft Williams but for shit sake let’s at least be honest and not be disingenuous about it.

Make your argument if you feel it’s a valid one but don’t misstate the other guys arguments.

Pretty much half this forum.

This you? So you were talking about being disingenuous……

 

[PrideisBears]

How did that go?

The moment he posted that it was a lock for the Ravens

 

[Canth]

I know I posted this once before but damned if I can find it. Below are the college stats of Justin Fields, Caleb Williams, and just for the hell of it, Drake Maye. I think the things that really stands out to me is how much more Williams and Maye threw the ball in college than Fields. Williams also with the most game experience having been a 3 year starter.

Justin Fields:





Caleb Williams:




Also a funny one to me I had not seen before, apparently Williams punted twice as a sophomore? Maybe if we draft him, we can also replace Gill?



Drake Maye:




Maye also with some punting ability apparently:

 

[TL1961]

So now the latest argument is CJ Stroud has all of these weapons and poor old Justin Fields only has one good receiver, and a sieve for an offensive line.

Now, imagine for one minute, the Justin Fields had Devon Singletary in the backfield and Nico Collins as his number one target. Nico Collins, whose career high in receiving yards was about 60% of Darnell Mooney, and suddenly Mooney who this board had a number one receiver a year ago doesn’t even count as a second weapon.

Now it’s DJ Moore only and that’s not as good as Nico Collins.

Are you people even remotely serious?

 

[Discus fish salesman]

So now the latest argument is CJ Stroud has all of these weapons and poor old Justin Fields only has one good receiver, and a sieve for an offensive line.

Now, imagine for one minute, the Justin Fields had Devon Singletary in the backfield and Nico Collins as his number one target. Nico Collins, whose career high in receiving yards was about 60% of Darnell Mooney, and suddenly Mooney who this board had a number one receiver a year ago doesn’t even count as a second weapon.

Now it’s DJ Moore only and that’s not as good as Nico Collins.

Are you people even remotely serious?

Dj moore is obviously better than all the Texans weapons. But stroud had a good OL they had completely rebuilt, Collins is a good wr (which is obvious from watching), tank dell, and Dalton Schultz. Collins was pretty clearly held back by shit qb play. Stroud is really good but it's disingenuous to act like good coaching and roster building weren't part of the Texans success.

With that said, I still think Stroud is obviously better than Fields.

 

[Xplosive]

I’m not sure I see the steadily improving - what do you base that assessment on? Statistics don’t bear it out. I was excited about Fields making the next step this year but to me unfortunately he categorically didn’t.

Passer rating, comp % etc all close to the same. QBR significantly lower and all this with his first elite receiver. He also missed significant games again with an injury and rushed for fewer yards with a much lower YPC. This 3rd year should have been the big step forward, by now you know what you have.

Genuinely interested in what areas you would say the improvement showed. To me I think there is a stronger case to say he regressed slightly or at best plateaued and that’s why I want to draft a QB.

I would sum it up as they gave him the chance to pass more, but he put up similar numbers with better receivers whilst his rushing performance dropped. I know Getsy was crap but he had the same OC both seasons so this factually shows little or no progress.

His stats when passing to DJ and Kmet have definitely improved beyond anything he had in the past.

If people could take off their statistical blinders, they would use their eyes to see that Justin has been releasing the ball quicker this season. Once he pronounced that he wasn't going to play like a robot for Getsy I can easily see and feel that I'm no longer screaming at my television for him to throw the damn ball.

 

[Xplosive]

So now the latest argument is CJ Stroud has all of these weapons and poor old Justin Fields only has one good receiver, and a sieve for an offensive line.

Now, imagine for one minute, the Justin Fields had Devon Singletary in the backfield and Nico Collins as his number one target. Nico Collins, whose career high in receiving yards was about 60% of Darnell Mooney, and suddenly Mooney who this board had a number one receiver a year ago doesn’t even count as a second weapon.

Now it’s DJ Moore only and that’s not as good as Nico Collins.

Are you people even remotely serious?

Just because receivers are young and relatively unknown to casual fans doesn't mean they are bad. Also the scheme and play calling are major factors on if those players are being used properly.

The only thing Getsy was good at was teaching receivers how to block.

 

[Brownie]

Dj moore is obviously better than all the Texans weapons. But stroud had a good OL they had completely rebuilt, Collins is a good wr (which is obvious from watching), tank dell, and Dalton Schultz. Collins was pretty clearly held back by shit qb play. Stroud is really good but it's disingenuous to act like good coaching and roster building weren't part of the Texans success.

With that said, I still think Stroud is obviously better than Fields.

Mechie was starting to make plays too