Making a Murderer

BNB

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I just started season 2. Only one episode in so far. IIRC, the only place they found her blood was in her vehicle, which I found as odd. Didn't the police determine it happened in the bedroom? I really don't think Steve and/or Brendan Dassey would be smart enough to pull this off that clean.

They determined that based on Brendan's bogus confession. There was zero evidence that she was in the room.

So.... Steve and Brendan rape and cut her throat in the bedroom and then murder her in the garage, but there's only blood in the car? So they're so thorough in cleaning the DNA evidence everywhere.... but then store the car on their own property and leave DNA evidence inside of it? Right.
 
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ruprecht

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Just watched a show about this a couple nights ago. Documentary has an agenda and not all facts are presented. Avery is a scumbag, type of guy who lit cats on fire for fun
 

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That determined that based on Brendan's bogus confession. There was zero evidence that she was in the room.

So.... Steve and Brendan rape and cut her throat in the bedroom and then murder her in the garage, but there's only blood in the car? So they're so thorough in cleaning the DNA evidence everywhere.... but then store the car on their own property and leave DNA evidence inside of it? Right.

Thanks for filling in the deats. It's been awhile since I've seen it so my memory was a little foggy. I'm not saying they didn't do it, but the theory the cops came up with was bogus.
 

Axl Rose

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Yeah i think hes guilty but the theory on how it happened is wrong.

The cops in the county were pretty scummy, but them finding her vehicle and not reporting it but rather taking it to his salvage yard and planting his blood inside in an effort to frame him is a bridge too far.
 

kapooncha

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Yeah i think hes guilty but the theory on how it happened is wrong.

The cops in the county were pretty scummy, but them finding her vehicle and not reporting it but rather taking it to his salvage yard and planting his blood inside in an effort to frame him is a bridge too far.

There are things that make me think he's guilty and things that make me think no way. Documentary is pretty one sided. Someone could easily make another documentary that would make us all think he's guilty as ****.
 

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There are things that make me think he's guilty and things that make me think no way. Documentary is pretty one sided. Someone could easily make another documentary that would make us all think he's guilty as ****.

Sure, but then you're in bed with Ken Kratz and some of those shitty, smug officers. Both sides have their own, "makes my skin crawl" feel to it.

I'll say this, the evidence can be twisted to tell a story, which is what the prosecutor and police has done in the Avery case. They could've easily questioned how Hillegas and Halbach's roommate got the day planner and railroaded either of them into a life sentence OR better yet used the Bobby Dassey/Scott Tadych info to do the same, but the kicker is... none of them have a $36 million dollar payout against the county either. Seems to line up just perfect for the county to get out of paying that money to a scumbag dude like Avery. Best chance is to realize which of the Dassey brothers is the most influential and get a confession, placing all this at Avery's feet.

Being a scumbag doesn't make you a murderer, it just makes you a POS.
 

kapooncha

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Sure, but then you're in bed with Ken Kratz and some of those shitty, smug officers. Both sides have their own, "makes my skin crawl" feel to it.

I'll say this, the evidence can be twisted to tell a story, which is what the prosecutor and police has done in the Avery case. They could've easily questioned how Hillegas and Halbach's roommate got the day planner and railroaded either of them into a life sentence OR better yet used the Bobby Dassey/Scott Tadych info to do the same, but the kicker is... none of them have a $36 million dollar payout against the county either. Seems to line up just perfect for the county to get out of paying that money to a scumbag dude like Avery. Best chance is to realize which of the Dassey brothers is the most influential and get a confession, placing all this at Avery's feet.

Being a scumbag doesn't make you a murderer, it just makes you a POS.

I think there is enough misconduct that Avery should get another trial. I'm still not sure he's innocent though.
 

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I think there is enough misconduct that Avery should get another trial. I'm still not sure he's innocent though.

Agreed, but I think the prosecutor and investigators need to let the unbiased evidence lead them to the killer, not build the case around who you want to put behind bars due to a massive payout owed to someone.

If he's guilty after that process, fine. But right now, I'm not sure he's the guy.
 

ruprecht

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If they were to try him again, and set him free, he will kill again.
#callingit
 

Axl Rose

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I believe he thought he could get away with it because he was wrongfully convicted once and it would look like the cops were trying to railroad him again. That seemed to work on the producers of this docuseries.
 

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As fucked up a situation was I couldn’t finish season one. Those inbred mother ******* on the show annoyed me
 

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Just watched a show about this a couple nights ago. Documentary has an agenda and not all facts are presented. Avery is a scumbag, type of guy who lit cats on fire for fun

Yeah, after reading all the shit they purposely left out I changed my entire opinion. There was TONS they left out to sway the viewer into believing their story. I was pissed that they duped me into watching such a dishonest “documentary”. When you look at all the Information from that trial, it’s obvious dude is guilty.

1. Avery’s past incident with a cat was not “goofing around”. He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer?

4. While in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a “torture chamber” so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. Another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to “burn it”…heat destroys DNA.

5. The victim’s bones in the firepit were “intertwined” with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned! Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere (never identified as Teresa’s) were from this murder was NEVER established.

6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa’s tooth (ID’d through dental records), a rivet from the “Daisy Fuentes” jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at 4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.

8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

9. Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6…if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun? This rifle, hanging over Aver’s bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired BEFORE 11/5—did the cops borrow his gun, fire a bullet, recover the bullet before planting the SUV, then hang on to the bullet for 4 months in case they need to plant it 4 months later???
 
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Didn’t they let the nephew off?

Nope, the nephew is life in prison eligible for parole when he's 59. His appeals went all the way to the US Supreme Court, which chose not to hear his case. So, his fate is sealed at this point, unless something really crazy happens with Avery's appeal process. A major break for Avery would have to happen, basically proving the prosecutions case was all lies for Dassey to get out of prison at this point.
 

botfly10

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At what point does this series become hillbilly exploitation?

I mean the plot of the thing is compelling but a good chunk of both seasons is just watching the residents of this town in disgust and shock.
 

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It became Hillbilly exploitation in Episode 1 of the first round.

It's hard to tell whether they framed an innocent man or simply planted additional evidence to be sure to nail a guilty one - as Furman did with the bloody glove.

I think it's pretty clear that there was a whole lot of "foul play" from the authorities. Planted evidence, coercion of Dassey - including having him change where he said the murder took place, etc. They tested the blood for the chemical in th evial to prove it was not planted from that source, yet they tested only three of eight spots in the car. Why?

The lead cop (named in the suit) just walks in and doesn't log in as present at the crime scene? He remembers the time as 2:30 PM once, and later as 5:30 or 6:00 - as the defense atty pointed out, this is literally the difference between arriving in daylight and arriving in darkness. How does one not recall THAT?

Much to wonder about, which is the point.

I don't for a minute believe Avery is a nice person, but I am far from convinced he did what they said.

The former boyfriend who moved into her apartment seems so smug in the first series. he had answers for nothing and a look on his face like he was about to bust out laughing (as though he was getting away with something). That is nowhere near enough to make anyone certain he was in on something, but it made me wonder.

Then again, Kathleen then pivoted to yet a different theory pointing at Bobby and the stepdad, so if there were credible signs pointing to the Hillegas guy , what happened? (But that copy of the dayplanner simply makes no sense)

Makes you wonder. But, man, it truly was hillbilly central. I am not planning any trips to Manitowoc County any time soon. Or ever.

And I ha to fast forward through half of season 2, as I couldn't just watch the mom sitting at the kitchen table for hours on end.

Lastly - I saw someone mention somewhere (and never looked into it any further) - did Avery's niece say he threatened her with a gun and/or tried to assault her sexually? Anyone else see that?
 

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The craziest thing to me was how they banned the coroner from crime scene. Threatened to have her arrested if she showed up, even though she had jurisdiction and it is procedure to have the coroner examine all human remains.

But overall, whatever really happened, the explanation the State came up with is complete nonsense. Its fucking self contradictory.
 

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She is highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county
 

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It became Hillbilly exploitation in Episode 1 of the first round.

It's hard to tell whether they framed an innocent man or simply planted additional evidence to be sure to nail a guilty one - as Furman did with the bloody glove.

I think it's pretty clear that there was a whole lot of "foul play" from the authorities. Planted evidence, coercion of Dassey - including having him change where he said the murder took place, etc. They tested the blood for the chemical in th evial to prove it was not planted from that source, yet they tested only three of eight spots in the car. Why?

The lead cop (named in the suit) just walks in and doesn't log in as present at the crime scene? He remembers the time as 2:30 PM once, and later as 5:30 or 6:00 - as the defense atty pointed out, this is literally the difference between arriving in daylight and arriving in darkness. How does one not recall THAT?

Much to wonder about, which is the point.

I don't for a minute believe Avery is a nice person, but I am far from convinced he did what they said.

The former boyfriend who moved into her apartment seems so smug in the first series. he had answers for nothing and a look on his face like he was about to bust out laughing (as though he was getting away with something). That is nowhere near enough to make anyone certain he was in on something, but it made me wonder.

Then again, Kathleen then pivoted to yet a different theory pointing at Bobby and the stepdad, so if there were credible signs pointing to the Hillegas guy , what happened? (But that copy of the dayplanner simply makes no sense)

Makes you wonder. But, man, it truly was hillbilly central. I am not planning any trips to Manitowoc County any time soon. Or ever.

And I ha to fast forward through half of season 2, as I couldn't just watch the mom sitting at the kitchen table for hours on end.

Lastly - I saw someone mention somewhere (and never looked into it any further) - did Avery's niece say he threatened her with a gun and/or tried to assault her sexually? Anyone else see that?

Whenever I watch the show, I can't help but think to myself, "man this is Packer country in the flesh." Those phone calls Steve has with his mom where all they say is 'yeah' back and forth are cringe as ****. I suppose once you've been in jail for so long you run out of things to talk about.
 

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Whenever I watch the show, I can't help but think to myself, "man this is Packer country in the flesh." Those phone calls Steve has with his mom where all they say is 'yeah' back and forth are cringe as ****. I suppose once you've been in jail for so long you run out of things to talk about.

Yeah..
 

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