Malik Hooker out 4-6 months after multiple surgeries on labrum and hernia

[FirstTimer]

I don't think people like Hammer realize the value of even "average" QB's. For all the laughter about guys like Alex Smith around here. Alex Smith on the Bears from 2010-2012 likely results in 2-3 SB births and possibly(probably?) a championship. Knowing even what a guy like Alex Smith could produce for you if the team was built like most meatballs want it..wouldn't even a "limited" QB like Smith be worth the #3 pick over a stud DE?

 

[Hammer]

With a mediocre system QBs like A.Smith, you can only hope that your defense has enough talent, and that you DC schemes can take a league by surprise and drive the franchise to the Super Bowl win, but there's absolutely no hope for sustained success once the league adjusts (as opposed to have true elite franchise QB), especially in this Salary Cap era (b/c great defense consists of 11+ very good to great players).


Btw. if your team don't have that #1 overall pick in "Peyton" year, then you can only hope to luck into "diamond in the rough" (something what Patriots did when they drafted Brady).

But as I already said, only elite, basically HOF QBs can guarantee you a sustained success of the franchise, and continuous Playoffs/SB bid (guys like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers).

 

[remydat]

The problem is that people put too many players into the elite category. The elite is supposed to only include the very best of the best. Obviously, Big Ben, Newton, Russell, are very very good but they are not as good as Brady or Rodgers.

The problem is allegedly non-elite QB like Big Ben, Newton, Russel are still more valuable than elite players at just about every position. So the term elite is pointless in this regard. If you are telling me you would take Early Thomas or Eric Berry over Big Ben, Newton, or Russel then I would argue you don't understand the value of a QB in this league.

So talking about elite in this context is kind of dumb. Even if Hooker is elite and Trubisky/Watson/Kizer are merely very good, they are still worth more than a FS.

Like holy ****, Earl Thomas literally does nothing to stop a guy like Tom Brady because if Tom Brady throws the ball 40 times a game, maybe 3 of those passes are centerfield. The vast majority of Brady's other passes are underneath. And the minute a guy like Early Thomas drops down and plays man, that's when a guy like Tom Brady throws deep when he's got one on one coverage.

So in the context of this thread talking about Malik Hooker ie a S, a good QB is more valuable than an elite S and it's not really close.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

With a mediocre system QBs like A.Smith, you can only hope that your defense has enough talent, and that you DC schemes can take a league by surprise and drive the franchise to the Super Bowl win, but there's absolutely no hope for sustained success once the league adjusts (as opposed to have true elite franchise QB), especially in this Salary Cap era (b/c great defense consists of 11+ very good to great players).


Btw. if your team don't have that #1 overall pick in "Peyton" year, then you can only hope to luck into "diamond in the rough" (something what Patriots did when they drafted Brady).

But as I already said, only elite, basically HOF QBs can guarantee you a sustained success of the franchise, and continuous Playoffs/SB bid (guys like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers).

Or you can "luck" into a HOF QB with a top 5 pick who is rated slightly lower than Luck or Peyton and then get your "diamond in the rough" defensive player in the 2nd round. Let's try that.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

The problem is allegedly non-elite QB like Big Ben, Newton, Russel are still more valuable than elite players at just about every position. So the term elite is pointless in this regard. If you are telling me you would take Early Thomas or Eric Berry over Big Ben, Newton, or Russel then I would argue you don't understand the value of a QB in this league.

So talking about elite in this context is kind of dumb. Even if Hooker is elite and Trubisky/Watson/Kizer are merely very good, they are still worth more than a FS.

Like holy ****, Earl Thomas literally does nothing to stop a guy like Tom Brady because if Tom Brady throws the ball 40 times a game, maybe 3 of those passes are centerfield. The vast majority of Brady's other passes are underneath. And the minute a guy like Early Thomas drops down and plays man, that's when a guy like Tom Brady throws deep when he's got one on one coverage.

So in the context of this thread talking about Malik Hooker ie a S, a good QB is more valuable than an elite S and it's not really close.

a

Agreed. I was just making a point that the word elite has become kinda watered down these days.

But your point is correct in that a VG QB is way more valuable than an elite anything else.

 

[remydat]

With a mediocre system QBs like A.Smith, you can only hope that your defense has enough talent, and that you DC schemes can take a league by surprise and drive the franchise to the Super Bowl win, but there's absolutely no hope for sustained success once the league adjusts (as opposed to have true elite franchise QB), especially in this Salary Cap era (b/c great defense consists of 11+ very good to great players).


Btw. if your team don't have that #1 overall pick in "Peyton" year, then you can only hope to luck into "diamond in the rough" (something what Patriots did when they drafted Brady).

But as I already said, only elite, basically HOF QBs can guarantee you a sustained success of the franchise, and continuous Playoffs/SB bid (guys like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers).

With an elite talent like Earl Thomas, you can only hope you have an entire defense of studs as well as a efficient offense. Therein lies the difference. Earl Thomas does nothing for you unless you have pretty much a whole team around him.

 

[FirstTimer]

Btw. if your team don't have that #1 overall pick in "Peyton" year, then you can only hope to luck into "diamond in the rough" (something what Patriots did when they drafted Brady).

This is incredibly stupid and completely inaccurate.

 

[JPPT1974]

Wish him well and hope he does heal. But ouch all I can say!

 

[Bearly]

I don't think people like Hammer realize the value of even "average" QB's. For all the laughter about guys like Alex Smith around here. Alex Smith on the Bears from 2010-2012 likely results in 2-3 SB births and possibly(probably?) a championship. Knowing even what a guy like Alex Smith could produce for you if the team was built like most meatballs want it..wouldn't even a "limited" QB like Smith be worth the #3 pick over a stud DE?

I've been against it overall but it's this exact type of thinking that makes me OK with a radical Garoppolo move if Pace feels good about it.

 

[bearmick]

Only elite passers can be viewed as elite QBs, guys with arm power, but no accuracy (or vice versa), or run first types are gimmick QBs that can only work out if surrounded by a tons of elite talent.

For example, compare Brady and Rodgers to guys like Rothlisberger, Newton, Russell (not to mention slew of average to bad QBs).

So IMO, if Pace and Bears scouts think there is elite passing talent waiting out there to be taken, then by all means, go ahead and draft him, but dual threat QBs, or other types of crappy passers, we should avoid those QB "talents".

But as I already said, only elite, basically HOF QBs can guarantee you a sustained success of the franchise, and continuous Playoffs/SB bid (guys like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers).

Wait, so you're saying if Deshone Kizer turns out to be Ben Roethlisberger (which I think is a decent comp), you would pass on that at #3 to take a defender?

Seriously?

 

[FirstTimer]

Wait, so you're saying if Deshone Kizer turns out to be Ben Roethlisberger (which I think is a decent comp), you would pass on that at #3 to take a defender?

Seriously?

I also like how his comment about sustained playoffs and success in regards to Big Ben ignores that he has two SB rings and is nearly always in the playoffs....and Wilson has won a SB, been to another one and has made the playoffs every season he's been in the NFL.