Maybe Timing is to Blame

[WindyCity]

How could that lessen your concern over Trubisky? Doesn't that presuppose Nagy was completely or even partially to blame for the pre-snap issues in later quarters? What if the limiting factor was Trubisky's knowledge and awareness of the plays he really wanted to call but was unable to?

It seems strange to separate his potential lack of playcall knowledge and awareness from his performance? I must be missing something?

Getting the play call in crisper will come with time. As will his knowledge and awareness of the play calls as he hears them more and more and gets comfortable with what comes in certain situations.

The play caller and QB have not worked together a ton in a game situation.

 

[WindyCity]

#2 pick in the draft, traded up for him, and passed on two other QBs.

While some will say the timing of this game is to blame (which - wow), how about shrinking in the spotlight. Maybe Mitch has it, maybe he doesn't - but this could have been his coming out party to the NFL, and he failed.

How there could possibly be any excuses made for him is just astonishing.

Ignoring the context of the situation is astonishing.

Trubisky sucked in the 2 minute drill. It has happened once in his career. Meanwhile he has played very well in the 2 minute drill against Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans if I recall correctly.

 

[sevvy]

Ignoring the context of the situation is astonishing.

Trubisky sucked in the 2 minute drill. It has happened once in his career. Meanwhile he has played very well in the 2 minute drill against Baltimore, Detroit, and New Orleans if I recall correctly.

This. And he's played better against better defenses with less weapons and shittier coaches(probably). He had a good first half, he had a shit 2nd half. Am I making excuses for him?

 

[Bearly]

Having re-watched the game I can say that I did not come away as concerned with Mitchell Trubisky's performance as I did watching it in real time.

What was concerning was the number of pre-snap issues that the Bears had that can contribute to poor execution after the snap. I looked at the number of times the play clock got below 5 and the number of snaps that were collar or above on Trubisky.

Both of these are pre-throw issues that need to be cleaned up.

1st Quarter

Play Clock: 7
High Snap: 1

2nd Quarter

Play Clock: 3
High Snap: 1

*Play clock issues in the 1st quarter of the 1st game are some what forgivable, less so when you sit the preseason.


3rd Quarter

Play Clock: 6
High Snap: 2


4th Quarter

Play Clock: 13
High Snap: 10


*Things got progressively worse pre-Trubisky as the game went on.
*The 4th quarter was a mess in terms of getting the ball in Trubisky's hands cleanly and not rushed
*This throws off timing and vision
*This causes the QB to rush as they are fighting the play clock

-4th Quarter FG Drive had 7 play clock issues and 7 high snaps, including one that killed the play-this was despite the Packers taking all their TO.

-2 minute drill had 5 low play clock situations and 2 high snaps one of which was on the last play of the game

I said the same. Mitch could have been better late but it wasn't nearly as bad as it felt in real time. The coaches were trying to take the pressure off him with all those screens and dumps but GB had them all covered and those lost yards had the opposite effect. Mitch is not yet making all his reads but a lot of that comes from familiarity. One thing that will get him this year is a LB dropping under a route. Happens to all the young QBs that are concentrating on reads downfield but he's not seeing it yet. You could see some of that in the 1st 1/2.

 

[wklink]

I'll buy it to a point. But remember this was Green Bay's first game too. Their players were in the exact same situation as ours. Being at home probably helped some but to say that it was just because we were early in the season is only a partial reason they fell apart.

As for being tired, the Bears had the ball for close to 17 minutes in the second half compared to 13 for Green Bay. If anything the Packers should have been tired, not the Bears. Our time of possession was almost seven minutes longer for the whole game. Yet the Packers were the 'fresh' team out there while Chicago seemed tired. I can understand that maybe Mack and Smith were not completely game ready but this wasn't a case of the team running out of gas because it was on the field for too long.

The team got torched in the second half. They gave up TD passes of 39 and 75 yards in the fourth quarter. THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN, not twice in one quarter. We knew what the Packers were going to do, what they had to score quickly. We can bitch about the screen passes and the weird schemes but defensively we were in bad positions to make plays, didn't tackle when we should and our safeties were out of position when their receivers caught passes. We flat out didn't cover receivers worth a damn in the second half.

In the end though, you know this team lost? They lost because they thought they were going to lose. You could see it after Rodger's threw that first TD. I saw the TV scan the sidelines and you could see the dejection in the faces of the team right there. They had that 'Oh shit, it is happening again' look and we were up by 10 with 14 minutes to go. I turned to a buddy and said, 'This is where the Bears are going to lose this game.' The team looked deflated. This team may have new leadership but that losing mentality hasn't completely been eliminated from some of these players and may never disappear completely.

There was a line from a movie that went, 'Quit thinking about what he is going to do to you and start thinking about what you are going to do to him.' This team stopped doing that late in the 3rd quarter. They bit into the awe that is Aaron Rodgers and let him run the Packers right down the field.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Getting the play call in crisper will come with time. As will his knowledge and awareness of the play calls as he hears them more and more and gets comfortable with what comes in certain situations.

The play caller and QB have not worked together a ton in a game situation.

You are all about context, and I can agree with that, but you are picking and choosing what context makes you feel better (imo - I am not claiming psychic ability here merely interpreting your statements). You are not wrong to keep in context that Nagy and Trubisky have not worked together a lot and you assume they get better at that.

This largely ignores the context that Trubisky looked scared, confused, (in a game he was leading most of the time) and the only plays he could run were screens, dumps, and - even when Nagy schemed receivers wide open in the infamous 4th quarter - Trubisky didn't even see the field at all. This isn't just true of the 2 minute drill. It was true for most of the game outside of the 3 drives that looked and felt scripted.

You're kind of looking at the fact that Nagy has some blame here (and I do agree with that), but to try and say Nagy also needs to get better SO THERFORE our concerns for Trubisky need not be so great seems unjustified to me.

It is a fact that any QB not scared and seeing the whole field wins this game in GB, certainly. But any HC that gets the play in on time or calls better designed plays MAY have helped win the game but is less certain from our limited viewpoint (due to the fact it is still not shown that offensive woes were even on Nagy and not Trubisky's limited ability to run certain plays that caused a string of predictability and a time lag in communications).

If you know somehow it was Nagy that was having more difficulty and Trubisky just would have been more confident had Nagy called X instead of screens or stopped hesitating on making play calls at all then I might be in a better position to agree.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

I said the same. Mitch could have been better late but it wasn't nearly as bad as it felt in real time. The coaches were trying to take the pressure off him with all those screens and dumps but GB had them all covered and those lost yards had the opposite effect. Mitch is not yet making all his reads but a lot of that comes from familiarity. One thing that will get him this year is a LB dropping under a route. Happens to all the young QBs that are concentrating on reads downfield but he's not seeing it yet. You could see some of that in the 1st 1/2.

I also don't understand how you are feeling ok with what happened re: Trubisky when he got scared AS the coaches are "trying to take the pressure off him with all those screens and dumps". You kind of stop there as if to imply "therefore coaches".

Yet the play calls (as GB gets closer) get more expansive and Trubisky NOW is so scared that he can't see the field at all. In the 1st quarter he sees tight opening in front of defender on the other shoulder of ARob (impressive). In the 4th quarter so rattled, he can't see the open TDs with a window so large you could drive a semi through. THAT concerns me more than the coaches and playcalling (even though I agree they sucked for long stretches, it doesn't excuse Trubisky for losing his composure at the moment Nagy schemes a couple more ways to score TDs)*

* I make no judgment on his overall projection as a NFL QB. All remarks are restricted to 2018 Week 1.

 

[Bearly]

It was a total team collapse. No doubt. I'm disgusted with all of it. But Trubisky was utter trash after the first two drives. I'm sorry you can't see that.

We just had one of the biggest choke jobs imaginable and a huge swath of you are looking at shit w rose colored glasses. Carry on.

That's a false narrative and indicates you may be the one who's lost his marbles over this. Understandable under the circumstances but to call reasoned responses insane is a little wacky.

 

[Bearly]

I also don't understand how you are feeling ok with what happened re: Trubisky when he got scared AS the coaches are "trying to take the pressure off him with all those screens and dumps". You kind of stop there as if to imply "therefore coaches".

Yet the play calls (as GB gets closer) get more expansive and Trubisky NOW is so scared that he can't see the field at all. In the 1st quarter he sees tight opening in front of defender on the other shoulder of ARob (impressive). In the 4th quarter so rattled, he can't see the open TDs with a window so large you could drive a semi through. THAT concerns me more than the coaches and playcalling (even though I agree they sucked for long stretches, it doesn't excuse Trubisky for losing his composure at the moment Nagy schemes a couple more ways to score TDs)*

* I make no judgment on his overall projection as a NFL QB. All remarks are restricted to 2018 Week 1.

When have I said I was OK with anything about that game? I guess you haven't seen my posts on how Mitch played. Do I need to rant? I even pointed to a problem no one else has yet mentioned in the post you quoted. It's called rational evaluation. He clearly wasn't ready for this game and was anxious at the end. He made some poor decisions and a few throws were where he aimed them and the catcher did something else. I've said it before, he needs to be less concerned about picks and stretch the field more early. All I said here is that when I rewatched his play, it wasn't as bad as it felt at the time. Coverage was tight. It was still disappointing at the end but it wasn't just him. He's the guy that you want to overcome that and make shit happen. He didn't and he wasn't yet ready for it. That's on him and the staff.

The staff did not call those plays because Mitch was scared. They called safe plays with a lead. They just called the wrong ones until they should have been conservative and then try to get a TD on 3rd and 2 on a drive that would have killed the clock... against extra DBs. Look at the last play of the game and tell me what Mitch was supposed to do? It looked bad when he bumped lineman and lost balls 'while looking downfield' but he had to wait. No one was open. None of this is an excuse for getting jumpy at the end and it wasn't good, just not as bad as some are making this.

Had the game been called properly in the 2nd 1/2 we wouldn't need to be discussing this nor would the coaches have needed to put this in Mitches lap to win. We had no answer for them pulling backers for DBs. That's when you jumbo the backfield to crack lanes until Howard runs over some of that secondary to make them play you straight again or eat clock. Instead we ran slow developing negative yardage throws. The worst thing you can do. Burton is a converted WR playing TE that can prey on most LBs. Guess what he represents to a DB? A slower WR. He may not be as fast as a DB but he sure could block one.

What about out 4th quarter D?:nope: Mitch didn't lose this game. He was ill prepared to win it but it's not on him. Obviously, we want him to become that guy that can pull out a win in adversity and he isn't (yet). We'll need to see what develops.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

I guess you haven't seen my posts on how Mitch played.

Oh, rest assured I haven't. I am only responding to your post here.

I even pointed to a problem no one else has yet mentioned in the post you quoted. It's called rational evaluation. He clearly wasn't ready for this game and was anxious at the end. He made some poor decisions and a few throws were where he aimed them and the catcher did something else.

Agree with this except for the part where you claim you pointed to a problem here that no one has before? I fail to see anything you said here that has not been said elsewhere in CCS?

All I said here is that when I rewatched his play, it wasn't as bad as it felt at the time.

Yeah I know. And I am saying I don't understand why it doesn't feel as bad.

It was still disappointing at the end but it wasn't just him. He's the guy that you want to overcome that and make shit happen. He didn't and he wasn't yet ready for it. That's on him and the staff.

No one here (well scratch that. I am in and out here so I don't know the convos around the board). Most here know it wasn't just him, most here know the staff has blame to bear. What I don't get - and still don't - is how you and Windy and anyone else can re-watch it (like I have too) and say literally they are less concerned with Trubisky than before. What do you see on re-watch that says it feels better Trubisky melted here because this play X could have been play Y and THEN he would have "felt better" to see the open TDS later?

The fact he melted at all is the very reason for concern and it doesn't lessen because there were stretches of bad play calling. Nor even bad play clock timing. Not because that isn't a factor but because it is unknown that the play call timing lag was because of Nagy and not possibly Trubisky himself.

Had the game been called properly in the 2nd 1/2 we wouldn't even need to be discussing this nor the coaches have needed to put this in Mitches lap to win.

Do you see how this does not lessen my concern re: Mitch? So playcalling has to be perfect or near perfect or at least better enough so that Mitch can feel better later in the 4th and doesn't have to step up and make a game winner of which there were 2 (at least 1) staring him in the face?

What about out 4th quarter D?:nope: Mitch didn't lose this game.

No one here said Mitch lost the game solely. The shit D has nothing to do with Mitch or lessening my concern for his mental state as an NFL QB. Unless you are also implying that Mitch needs the D to be good enough so he doesn't have to step up and win?

He was ill prepared to win it but it's not on him.

I have no idea why it's not on him. No clue. I will agree he is not solely responsible sure, but I have no idea why "it's not on him" to be prepared to win.

Obviously, We'll need to see what develops.

Agreed. Hence my previous asterisk. Cheers!

 

[WindyCity]

You are all about context, and I can agree with that, but you are picking and choosing what context makes you feel better (imo - I am not claiming psychic ability here merely interpreting your statements). You are not wrong to keep in context that Nagy and Trubisky have not worked together a lot and you assume they get better at that.

This largely ignores the context that Trubisky looked scared, confused, (in a game he was leading most of the time) and the only plays he could run were screens, dumps, and - even when Nagy schemed receivers wide open in the infamous 4th quarter - Trubisky didn't even see the field at all. This isn't just true of the 2 minute drill. It was true for most of the game outside of the 3 drives that looked and felt scripted.

You're kind of looking at the fact that Nagy has some blame here (and I do agree with that), but to try and say Nagy also needs to get better SO THERFORE our concerns for Trubisky need not be so great seems unjustified to me.

It is a fact that any QB not scared and seeing the whole field wins this game in GB, certainly. But any HC that gets the play in on time or calls better designed plays MAY have helped win the game but is less certain from our limited viewpoint (due to the fact it is still not shown that offensive woes were even on Nagy and not Trubisky's limited ability to run certain plays that caused a string of predictability and a time lag in communications).

If you know somehow it was Nagy that was having more difficulty and Trubisky just would have been more confident had Nagy called X instead of screens or stopped hesitating on making play calls at all then I might be in a better position to agree.

I disagree that he was scared. I think that was an emotional response to watching the game by most of us.

Trubisky was fine up until the 2 minute drill. He led a FG drive that wins the game most of the time with the defense that the Bears have.

He was struggling to read the field and go through progressions. That is something that will come with time. But I have to ask what WRs were schemed wide open in the 4th quarter?

 

[Bearly]

Oh, rest assured I haven't. I am only responding to your post here.



Agree with this except for the part where you claim you pointed to a problem here that no one has before? I fail to see anything you said here that has not been said elsewhere in CCS?



Yeah I know. And I am saying I don't understand why it doesn't feel as bad.



No one here (well scratch that. I am in and out here so I don't know the convos around the board). Most here know it wasn't just him, most here know the staff has blame to bear. What I don't get - and still don't - is how you and Windy and anyone else can re-watch it (like I have too) and say literally they are less concerned with Trubisky than before. What do you see on re-watch that says it feels better Trubisky melted here because this play X could have been play Y and THEN he would have "felt better" to see the open TDS later?

The fact he melted at all is the very reason for concern and it doesn't lessen because there were stretches of bad play calling. Nor even bad play clock timing. Not because that isn't a factor but because it is unknown that the play call timing lag was because of Nagy and not possibly Trubisky himself.



Do you see how this does not lessen my concern re: Mitch? So playcalling has to be perfect or near perfect or at least better enough so that Mitch can feel better later in the 4th and doesn't have to step up and make a game winner of which there were 2 (at least 1) staring him in the face?



No one here said Mitch lost the game solely. The shit D has nothing to do with Mitch or lessening my concern for his mental state as an NFL QB. Unless you are also implying that Mitch needs the D to be good enough so he doesn't have to step up and win?



I have no idea why it's not on him. No clue. I will agree he is not solely responsible sure, but I have no idea why "it's not on him" to be prepared to win.



Agreed. Hence my previous asterisk. Cheers!

Not solely responsible means exactly that.

 

[Bearly]

I disagree that he was scared. I think that was an emotional response to watching the game by most of us.

Trubisky was fine up until the 2 minute drill. He led a FG drive that wins the game most of the time with the defense that the Bears have.

He was struggling to read the field and go through progressions. That is something that will come with time. But I have to ask what WRs were schemed wide open in the 4th quarter?

He saw a unique D for the 1st time in his career. He's been taught to work from D sets in his reads. There weren't any recognizable ones in the 2nd 1/2. They were there for the coaches to call it different and possibly force GB out of that D but Mitch had little to work from.

 

[WindyCity]

Mitch's 4th quarter

1st Down: Howard 5 yard run
2nd Down: High Snap Howard 4 yard run
3rd Down: Sims runs a 6" route

I have no issues with what Mitch did here. This drive should have kept going if Dion Sims did not suck.

FG Drive

1st-Howard 8 yard wheel route compleition
2nd-Howard 1 yard run
3rd-Trubisky runs the lead for a 1st down

1st-Howard 0 yards
2nd-Trubisky 8 yard run after Wilkerson pressure
3rd-Cohen 7 yard run

1st-Howard 3 yard run
2nd-Howard 0 yard run
3rd-Trubisky scrambles right and completes 12 yard pass to Miller

1st-Howard 22 yards

1st-Blown Snap lose of 3
2nd-Howard 8 yard run
3rd-Trubisky misses the wheel route on what was an incredibly stupid play call

-Trubisky converted 3 3rd downs on his own
-He had 1 bad read and incompletion on the drive.
-There were 7 off target snaps on the drive

-The drive was 14 plays, 61 yards, took 6:50 seconds off the clock, and they kicked a FG to go up 6. That should win the game with this defense. Most teams would kill for that in a 4th quarter where they are leading.

Mitch did not play poorly in the 4th quarter, he played poorly in the 2 minute drill.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Not solely responsible means exactly that.

So you really have no evidence to back up your increase in confidence re: Trubisky (put forward as axiomatic that lessening concern = increase in confidence).

You just re-watched and kind of do. That's cool. Ok.

Also, not solely responsible =/= "it's not on him". The first term is a qualifier and recognizes input in preparation from others including coaches. The second term implies a removal of responsibility from Trubisky. That is why I said I have no clue why that would be true.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

I disagree that he was scared. I think that was an emotional response to watching the game by most of us.

Trubisky was fine up until the 2 minute drill. He led a FG drive that wins the game most of the time with the defense that the Bears have.

He was struggling to read the field and go through progressions. That is something that will come with time. But I have to ask what WRs were schemed wide open in the 4th quarter?

Well ok. I guess that is that. I interpreted his reactions and play to be a meltdown. I guess I can't PROVE it so we just have our opinions and that's cool.

Missing Robinson fade. Not throwing to Cohen on wheel and not throwing to Burton on cross (or was it drag?) in endzone.

In true CCS fashion, I expect my words "scheming receivers open" to be deconstructed but I'll stand by it since I think that even if the play has pre-snap alignments that confuses the D and lets Burton be uncovered from the snap, then it's a bit of scheme that confused the coverage ... and Trubisky didn't take advantage.

If you are right and he wasn't rattled then the other explanation is that he was blind to it because he is in a hurry.

That would be better because in my limited understanding: coaching better vision when in a hurry is far easier than healing a rattled mental state.

I hope you're right, but I don't believe you are.

Which brings us full circle to the point that I see no evidence to have fewer concerns,

only you and Bearly feel better after a re-watch. Again, cool, but no real evidence that successfully counters the real possibility that Trubisky melted down into a state of inability to play at an NFL level.