McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Ben G

[dougthonus]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

I agree Doug every other scorer does it too. But when people point it out we shouldn't jump all over them like it isn't true, you are just saying it is not necessarily a bad thing, which I agree. However that running layup in Game 6 (I think 6) with 3 players on him, he made it but only Kobay or Wade tries that, no one else does. So he is on the top end of guys who once they go one on one there is no passing.

I don't deny that Gordon goes one on one occasionally. I only point out that it's something every good scorer does and something that many players whom Bulls fans would love to have do all the time. People make it out to be a big issue with Gordon when in reality it's something you'd expect out of any big time scorer.

I think people just don't appreciate how good of a scorer Gordon has been the past three years. They look at him as a second tier scorer largely because Skiles limited his minutes, but that's not a fair way to assess things IMO. When it comes to scoring rate, volume, and efficiency Gordon is near the tops.

 

[Hendu0520]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

dougthonus wrote:

I agree Doug every other scorer does it too. But when people point it out we shouldn't jump all over them like it isn't true, you are just saying it is not necessarily a bad thing, which I agree. However that running layup in Game 6 (I think 6) with 3 players on him, he made it but only Kobay or Wade tries that, no one else does. So he is on the top end of guys who once they go one on one there is no passing.

I don't deny that Gordon goes one on one occasionally. I only point out that it's something every good scorer does and something that many players whom Bulls fans would love to have do all the time. People make it out to be a big issue with Gordon when in reality it's something you'd expect out of any big time scorer.

I think people just don't appreciate how good of a scorer Gordon has been the past three years. They look at him as a second tier scorer largely because Skiles limited his minutes, but that's not a fair way to assess things IMO. When it comes to scoring rate, volume, and efficiency Gordon is near the tops.

True, agree with that completely.

 

[badboy]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

J-Mart wrote:

See this is actually a fairly well laid out argument against Gordon. Not the typical stuff people just repeat from the radio. I just disagree with you about him getting to the line and stopping momentum. If our team can't keep momentum going when Gordon is getting to the line, that is a team problem, not a Gordon problem. There is nothing bad about having Gordon on the line when he is a 86% free throw shooter.

I also agree that once Rose becomes a better defender that BG's lack of size won't be as big of a problem. Although Gordon is not a good defender, I would argue he isn't bad. I would say he is average. Since Rose is a horrible defender right now, it is hard for us have a back court that is not a good defensive unit. I expect Rose to get better with time though and I don't think it will be an issue. Especially with Salmons (Assuming Deng starts) and Kirk who are good defenders on the bench helps this problem a lot.

I do have one question for you badboy, do you think the Bulls should let Gordon walk?

I think you have to attempt to resign him. There is no question about that.

I don't think you understand what I mean about stopping momentum. Regardless of a person's ability to make a free throw you don't want any stoppage of play. Let's say you are on a 10-0 run and have a fast break you take the easy basket so play continues. Forcing the other coach to use a timeout to stop the run. They wont be able to substitute or speak to their players. However we all no when someone is on the free throw line in can be like an extra timeout.

 

[Shakes]

dougthonus wrote:

However, when discussing whether we make a trade or not or should bring him back, I think that's a valid interesting point of discussion. In fact, I'd say it's probably THE most interesting thing to happen this off season (or not happen). However, I agree with your stance that it's unlikely Gordon remains a Bull.

I'd have to say that whether the 2010 guys sign extensions has a bigger impact on the Bulls than whether Gordon re-signs. Getting Gordon back is unlikely to win us a championship by itself, getting a 2010 guy at least gives us a shot.

 

[Shakes]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

houheffna wrote:

Nocioni, a former teammate, begs to differ.

If anyone would know about ball hogging and chucking up shots without even looking to pass, it's Nocioni. The guys complaints about other players doing it don't really hold much weight given how he played before being traded.

 

[houheffna]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

Whether Nocioni shot without conscious or not is not the issue, its that when he made the complaint, EVERYBODY knew who he was talking about.

 

[Bullsman24]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

but come on, noche has a terrible three point percentage, i don't think him of anybody should be concerned with the leading scorer trying to make something out of nothing, oftentimes on offense there is nothing because no one else can create their own shot.

 

[houheffna]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

Well, there were a couple other guys who could get their shot off that were on the floor with Gordon at the same time, did that change his game at all? No.

 

[J-Mart]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

houheffna wrote:

Gordon is not the best player on the floor

He is on the offensive end for the Bulls.

So he should give the ball up and allow Rose to create off of the dribble

Last I checked Gordon is the SG and doesn't bring the ball up the floor. Maybe Rose should be more aggressive and stop deferring all the time? Or is that BG's fault too?

Rose should handle the ball as much as Chris Paul and Deron Williams

I agree, but how is this BG's fault? How often do you see Rose pass it off and run to the corner and not move. This doesn't only happen when he passes to Gordon. A point guard should be looking to get the ball back and be aggressive if nothing is happening. Wait I forgot, that's BG's fault.

 

[houheffna]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

It IS BG's fault when he is the one hogging the ball. That is like the Magic game last night. Should Howard really have to yell at a bunch of veterans to get him the ball in the post? Really? The players should no better, get the ball to the franchise player. Eventhough Lewis and Hedo are better offensive players right now, get the ball to the franchise player. That is all I am saying here. BG should realize who the franchise player is...and learn his role on the team.

 

[??? ??????]

Something that needs to be pointed out. Could fit in with a Fred's Truths of Basketball Part 2. This idea that we can run the offense entirely through Rose is ridiculous. Every posession isn't going to go through Rose. There are very few players who you can do that with. Prime Shaq, Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan, Lebron James are some of the few examples. Most superstars who are not all time greats (and even some all time greats, I think Kobe is an example) cannot have the entire offense run through them.

Derrick Rose, as seen in the playoffs, was turning the ball over a lot. He is not an efficient scorer. So to continually force the offense through him would be detrimental to the team. Maybe he does become one of those few players who can have every play ran through him if the Bulls want, but he's not that player now, and there aren't all that great of odds of him ever becoming that.

 

[J-Mart]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

houheffna wrote:

It IS BG's fault when he is the one hogging the ball. That is like the Magic game last night. Should Howard really have to yell at a bunch of veterans to get him the ball in the post? Really? The players should no better, get the ball to the franchise player. Eventhough Lewis and Hedo are better offensive players right now, get the ball to the franchise player. That is all I am saying here. BG should realize who the franchise player is...and learn his role on the team.

Yeah 16 shots a game is hogging the ball, please.

No I take that back, your right. We should just have Rose score all the points. Honestly I think that would be the only way to make some fans happy.

BGs role on this team is to score. Which he does very well, better than Rose currently. I actually think BG knows his role and is using the role that was given to him by VDN.

Are you mad because Rose isn't getting enough game winning shots for you? Too bad he hasn't been able to make any of them and BG has had loads of them. Including 4 point plays. People need to start realizing that Rose can't do everything and will not succeed if he doesn't have guys to take the scoring load off of him. Do you realize how much pressure you are putting on a 20 year old?

BG spaces the floor for Rose and that cannot be stressed enough. Don't complain next season when we have no one other than Salmons who can shoot the three and wonder why Rose has so many turnovers and can't get into the lane as easily.

 

[houheffna]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

Yeah 16 shots a game is hogging the ball, please.

No I take that back, your right. We should just have Rose score all the points. Honestly I think that would be the only way to make some fans happy.

BGs role on this team is to score. Which he does very well, better than Rose currently. I actually think BG knows his role and is using the role that was given to him by VDN.

Are you mad because Rose isn't getting enough game winning shots for you? Too bad he hasn't been able to make any of them and BG has had loads of them. Including 4 point plays. People need to start realizing that Rose can't do everything and will not succeed if he doesn't have guys to take the scoring load off of him. Do you realize how much pressure you are putting on a 20 year old?

BG spaces the floor for Rose and that cannot be stressed enough. Don't complain next season when we have no one other than Salmons who can shoot the three and wonder why Rose has so many turnovers and can't get into the lane as easily.

BG should space the floor for Rose and everyone else...so give up the damn ball! I don't want him handling the ball.

Lets not act like Gordon is Jordan here. Gordon has majorly jacked up end of the game chances too. I mean he has looked totally inept. Why? Usually because he will not pass the ball to an open man. Game 7, down three, making a comeback, what does the great BG do? Forget about that huh? They may have gotten a decent chance to tie the ballgame if VDN sits his butt down...I am not putting that much pressure on Rose. Rose is the PG, let him do that.

Larry Hughes hit game winning shots too, wanna go back and get him? They have guys that shoot threes and they can find more. They need players that will BUY IN....point blank.

 

[Shakes]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

I don't know why people want to give Rose more shots. Of all the players on the team last year the only players who were less efficient scorers than Rose were Luol Deng, Drew Gooden and the scrubs.

Is it because he doesn't turn the ball over? Sure, he's good at that, but you know what? Ben Gordon had a lower turnover rate than Rose.

So Ben Gordon scores efficiently, and doesn't turn the ball over when he handles it ... but we need to get it into the hands of one of our least efficient players more? I'm all for Rose learning to get better, but lets not act like he's a superstar right now.

 

[J-Mart]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

houheffna wrote:

Yeah 16 shots a game is hogging the ball, please.

No I take that back, your right. We should just have Rose score all the points. Honestly I think that would be the only way to make some fans happy.

BGs role on this team is to score. Which he does very well, better than Rose currently. I actually think BG knows his role and is using the role that was given to him by VDN.

Are you mad because Rose isn't getting enough game winning shots for you? Too bad he hasn't been able to make any of them and BG has had loads of them. Including 4 point plays. People need to start realizing that Rose can't do everything and will not succeed if he doesn't have guys to take the scoring load off of him. Do you realize how much pressure you are putting on a 20 year old?

BG spaces the floor for Rose and that cannot be stressed enough. Don't complain next season when we have no one other than Salmons who can shoot the three and wonder why Rose has so many turnovers and can't get into the lane as easily.

BG should space the floor for Rose and everyone else...so give up the damn ball! I don't want him handling the ball.

Lets not act like Gordon is Jordan here. Gordon has majorly jacked up end of the game chances too. I mean he has looked totally inept. Why? Usually because he will not pass the ball to an open man. Game 7, down three, making a comeback, what does the great BG do? Forget about that huh? They may have gotten a decent chance to tie the ballgame if VDN sits his butt down...I am not putting that much pressure on Rose. Rose is the PG, let him do that.

Larry Hughes hit game winning shots too, wanna go back and get him? They have guys that shoot threes and they can find more. They need players that will BUY IN....point blank.

Will you stop bringing up Jordan, nobody other than you is comparing Gordon to Jordan. Gordon is the best we have right now. If someone better comes, great, I will be happy when that day comes. Until then we should keep Gordon. No one thinks that Gordon is the answer to everything, but if you can't even see how valuable he is to the team, well then I guess there is no sense in arguing anymore. Next season will speak for itself.

 

[houheffna]

Re:McGraw: Decent chance the Bulls will re-sign Be

I bring up whoever the heck I want to bring up to make my point. You don't have to argue, no one asked you to.

Spirited debate is always good, my problem is most of you on here are grading on some twisted curve that makes no sense. I am pointing out his deficiencies. I believe that they can be counterproductive to Rose's growth. I have stated many times that Gordon is cool if he buys in coming off of the bench. If he does that, fine. Now its all about the money, for Rose, I would rather have Salmons in the backcourt. SOMEBODY has to play defense.

I actually watch the NBA, I have ordered League Pass and I am an NBA fan. I am watching Cleveland now and they are the business. You are not going to win with Delonte West posting up our backcourt and scoring on us....Delonte West!!! Scoring at will!!! Can't happen. Lebron might win 5 or 6 rings, he might become the greatest of all time, he is certainly on his way, we have to get through him to get a ring, keeping a trigger-happy 2 guard who is a defensive liability and not that great a ball handler is not the answer.

You don't have to wait till next year, you can watch King James and the Cavs now, check them out sometime, watch some defense for a change. I hope Boston wins, so you will see the Cavaliers destroy them and see how far we are from where they are.