Missing Pieces in the Cubs' Pen

[DewsSox79]

Okay, because I was going to say... we didn't draft him as a RP lol.

I would say that the team need goes over his projection and whatnot, if the team has a legitimate shot at winning. We don't really have that. Which is why I feel that it would be a complete waste of Cashner to have him in the bullpen. If this was 2008, then hell yes you put him in the bullpen. But is a year of .500 baseball really worth it?

because things dont change after a draft?

 

[Captain Obvious]

because things dont change after a draft?

Never said that doesn't happen, did I? I was just stating that we drafted him as a SP. It is a common misconception with Cashner, because his senior year he was a CL. Calm down.

 

[Jntg4]

Okay, because I was going to say... we didn't draft him as a RP lol.

I would say that the team need goes over his projection and whatnot, if the team has a legitimate shot at winning. We don't really have that. Which is why I feel that it would be a complete waste of Cashner to have him in the bullpen. If this was 2008, then hell yes you put him in the bullpen. But is a year of .500 baseball really worth it?

.500=In the race for quite some time in most cases.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

Okay, because I was going to say... we didn't draft him as a RP lol.

I would say that the team need goes over his projection and whatnot, if the team has a legitimate shot at winning. We don't really have that. Which is why I feel that it would be a complete waste of Cashner to have him in the bullpen. If this was 2008, then hell yes you put him in the bullpen. But is a year of .500 baseball really worth it?

Gotcha. Just was curious what other people thought.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

.500=In the race for quite some time in most cases.

Eeeeh, in most cases. But tbh, I think that Milwaukee is going to be well over .500. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I see those chumps being like 15 games over .500, which I don't think anyone in the NL Central can really compete with.

 

[Captain Obvious]

.500=In the race for quite some time in most cases.

That's fine, but we can get more value out of Cash as a starter from July-October than we can with him as a reliever for the whole season. Hell, you can get more value out of him as a starter from August-October. Plus, he hasn't even pitched 20 IP as a starter above AA. He still needs more time to grow and mature.

 

[Jntg4]

That's fine, but we can get more value out of Cash as a starter from July-October than we can with him as a reliever for the whole season. Hell, you can get more value out of him as a starter from August-October. Plus, he hasn't even pitched 20 IP as a starter above AA. He still needs more time to grow and mature.

Above AA doesn't matter if you are good though. A lot of good players skip AA. Not like he's never pitched in the Majors at all or anything.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Above AA doesn't matter if you are good though. A lot of good players skip AA. Not like he's never pitched in the Majors at all or anything.

Name 2 players that have skipped AAA.

You're right... it doesn't matter if you are good. We don't know if he is good as a SP or not. He's started a whole 3 games in AAA. He's not Castro. He's going to need more time.

He has pitched in the majors, but not as a starter. It's a totally different "ballgame" when you are starting as opposed to relieving.

 

[Jntg4]

Name 2 players that have skipped AAA.

You're right... it doesn't matter if you are good. We don't know if he is good as a SP or not. He's started a whole 3 games in AAA. He's not Castro. He's going to need more time.

He has pitched in the majors, but not as a starter. It's a totally different "ballgame" when you are starting as opposed to relieving.

People have made conversions before without being sent down you know.

I can name 2 easily.
Starlin Castro
Mike Stanton

The fact is that he has experience pitching in the majors, albeit not much and as a reliever. He doesn't have to be sent down to be made a starter just because he didn't pitch much at AAA.

 

[Jntg4]

Never said that doesn't happen, did I? I was just stating that we drafted him as a SP. It is a common misconception with Cashner, because his senior year he was a CL. Calm down.

He was being calm.

 

[Captain Obvious]

People have made conversions before without being sent down you know.

I can name 2 easily.
Starlin Castro
Mike Stanton

The fact is that he has experience pitching in the majors, albeit not much and as a reliever. He doesn't have to be sent down to be made a starter just because he didn't pitch much at AAA.

Both are position players. Both have one year under their belts. They could still flop.

He doesn't have to be... but it sure would benefit the team. Now, sure, he could prove me wrong and be fine. However, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Jntg4]

Both are position players. Both have one year under their belts. They could still flop.

He doesn't have to be... but it sure would benefit the team. Now, sure, he could prove me wrong and be fine. However, I wouldn't bet on it.

I wouldn't bet on anything in baseball... seems like it almost always backfires unless you are 100% positive.

My playoff picks are usually accurate though, only one pick wrong over the last two seasons.

 

[poodski]

So I guess my question is: Cashner can clearly perform well at either position (SP or RP), and I've even said that he would make an awesome setup guy in the late innings, so when does the needs of the team at the here and now out weigh what the guy was picked up to do/ is understood to do?

I'm not sure if I've phrased this well or even if this is a dumb question. It was just something I was thinking about after reading Poods comment about Cashner helping the 2011 Cubs in the pen, but not the 2012 and beyond Cubs.

Well I would say when you think the team is about ready to compete. Now if you think the 2011 Cubs are contenders for the NLC crown then you probably put Cashner in the pen (or start him if you think he is better than Silva), but if you don't (which I dont) I think whats best is to showcase Silva for hopefully a suiter in a month or two. Hell that could be the Cardinals or the Yankees very easily at this point.

At that point you can bring Cashner back up to start, but if you put him in the bullpen not only is he not pitching 5-8 innings an outing but he probably isn't using all his pitches. So now you are just letting him rot. If the Cubs want him to start he should start period. Whether thats in Chicago, Iowa, or Timbuktoo. He should not be relieving. Do not pull another Samardzija on us.

That's my take and my opinion, but you are all welcome to your own opinion, I will just tell you why I agree or disagree with it.

 

[EnjoyYourTiger]

Well I would say when you think the team is about ready to compete. Now if you think the 2011 Cubs are contenders for the NLC crown then you probably put Cashner in the pen (or start him if you think he is better than Silva), but if you don't (which I dont) I think whats best is to showcase Silva for hopefully a suiter in a month or two. Hell that could be the Cardinals or the Yankees very easily at this point.

At that point you can bring Cashner back up to start, but if you put him in the bullpen not only is he not pitching 5-8 innings an outing but he probably isn't using all his pitches. So now you are just letting him rot. If the Cubs want him to start he should start period. Whether thats in Chicago, Iowa, or Timbuktoo. He should not be relieving. Do not pull another Samardzija on us.

That's my take and my opinion, but you are all welcome to your own opinion, I will just tell you why I agree or disagree with it.

I mean, I never disagreed with what anyone said. Like I understand completely what you, Jntg, and CO have been saying. And this certainly is no different.

I don't see the Cubs competing this year... And Cashner absolutely needs to start to develop. So unless he gets the 5th rotation spot, he should go back down to Iowa to continue working on mechanics and control.

I just this whole thing sprung from some crazy concept that I had - that Casnher would be our set up guy. But now we have Wood for at least the next year.

Here's to hoping Cash Money gets a rotation spot! :beerbang:

 

[theunfortunatecubsfan]

13 pitchers? Are you high? No team carries 13 pitchers and we really should only be carrying 11. But it'll be 12.

Marmol
Wood
Marshall
Grabow
Russell
Shark
Silva

is what we are probably looking at, I'd say.

For starters, a writer always brings credibility upon himself by beginning an article by "are you high." Good job. Way to prescribe to the stereotypical Cubs fan stigma of being an asshole.

Secondly, is it really out of reason that they go with 12 position players? Darwin Barney brings versatility to all of the infield spots, plus Ramirez, Pena, and Castro, along with the platoon of DeWitt and Baker, that brings 6 infielders (Colvin backing up first), along with two catchers, and 4 outfielders, assuming Perez doesn't make the team.

That's legitimately possible.

Is it going to happen? No. Perez will make the team, and Marquez may as well.

Silva will get the rotation, but Cash Money will be in the pen.

Keep up with the times.

 

[poodski]

For starters, a writer always brings credibility upon himself by beginning an article by "are you high." Good job. Way to prescribe to the stereotypical Cubs fan stigma of being an asshole.

Secondly, is it really out of reason that they go with 12 position players? Darwin Barney brings versatility to all of the infield spots, plus Ramirez, Pena, and Castro, along with the platoon of DeWitt and Baker, that brings 6 infielders (Colvin backing up first), along with two catchers, and 4 outfielders, assuming Perez doesn't make the team.

That's legitimately possible.

Is it going to happen? No. Perez will make the team, and Marquez may as well.



Keep up with the times.

Eh I could see em breaking camp with 13 pitchers. Only for a few weeks though, at the beginning of the season you never want to overuse your pitchers.

I wouldn't give it good odds, but I would say if odds were +500 or better I would bet on 13 pitchers to break camp.

And that article is still pure speculation. I still give Silva a pretty good shot at making the rotation. Lets not forget that Cashner has a 6.75 ERA as well. If he can't improve on that Silva should make it just because there is no reason for Cashner to start if he isn't ready. If Cashner puts up a 5+ ERA in ST he should no way be starting. Even if Silva has an ERA above 10.

 

[theunfortunatecubsfan]

And that article is still pure speculation. I still give Silva a pretty good shot at making the rotation. Lets not forget that Cashner has a 6.75 ERA as well. If he can't improve on that Silva should make it just because there is no reason for Cashner to start if he isn't ready. If Cashner puts up a 5+ ERA in ST he should no way be starting. Even if Silva has an ERA above 10.

my bad...wrong link

I do think Cashner will be starting, whether thats for AAA or the cubs remains to be seen

 

[poodski]

says link doesnt exist....

 

[theunfortunatecubsfan]

"Jim Hendry, on the radio with Pat and Zonk, said that Cashner will get every chance to make the rotation -- and that may mean that Cashner will head to Iowa to start if he doesn't."

courtesy of BCB...again speculation, but it comes with a bit more weight

 

[Jntg4]

"Jim Hendry, on the radio with Pat and Zonk, said that Cashner will get every chance to make the rotation -- and that may mean that Cashner will head to Iowa to start if he doesn't."

courtesy of BCB...again speculation, but it comes with a bit more weight

Did Hendry say the Iowa part, or was the writer speculating on that last part?