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Everyone agrees with that. It doesn't change the fact that he has accomplished more than any QB on your list. I think Eli sucks but he will be in the HOF.
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I won't be surprised at all having already seen the fallacy in past voting and how QBs are elevated by SB wins. Certainly get a boost from the last name as well.
I am just of the opinion a HOF player should represent greatness throughout the majority of his career. In 87% of the seasons he played, the Giants didn't even win a playoff game and he was never among the top 10 or even 15 QBs in the league, struggling to even be within the top 20 most of the time. In comparison to his brother, he looks like Rex Grossman.
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I disagree. He has 2 SB's and another important factor as well; longevity, so it's not like it's out the realm of possibility or anything, but I think his mediocre at absolute best yearly averages hold him out. Eli has never had a season where he finished as a top 5 QB statistically, ever. Go look at other HoF QBs, that's just simply not the case. HoF is really a judgement of your performance vs your peers.
He definitely isn't a 1st ballot guy, that's 100% certain.
WestCoastBearsFan
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Literally the only QB you listed with a comparable resumé to Eli is Bob Griese... who is in the HOF.
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I want to agree but depending on the class when he retires he does have a chance to be first ballot. This in no way means i think he deserves it. I think he gets in strictly for beating Brady twice.
This means i think Trubs is better than a future HOF QB,,,,
Come at me Bro's!
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Those Dolphins were never about him. They were about the relentless run game with Csonka, Kiick, Morris and Warfield at WR and a stifling defense throughout. His son could have had just as much success with them.
WestCoastBearsFan
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And yet he’s still in the hall of fame. You’re just proving my point.
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'Assassin' doesn't really seem appropriate these days, "Silent Virtue Signaler"?
WestCoastBearsFan
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By the way I asked the posters here if they think, or know anybody who does, that DVOA is “subjective” and not a single one said they do. Maybe you’re just the dope @Spartan ?
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Here, I'll help:
DVOA is an objective compiling of set statistics. It's standardized and measured with the same objective stats every time. It's objective.
However, all stats can be applied to reach subjective conclusions and never really tell the whole "story", as context is always pretty important. DVOA is no different.
You guys are just arguing 2 sides of the same damn coin.
WestCoastBearsFan
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No see he said the stat itself was subjective though. I agree the importance of the stat is subjective as opposed to the actual stat itself.
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How do you measure TTFD?
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Get a kicker Bears go all the way. Mitch is better than Jay and maybe Rex.
TheWinman
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Dude, I was with you in the shitfest with Spartan, but you lost with the ELi crap. Eli is never going into the HOF
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Sure about that? Plunkett and Theisman both had far superior post season numbers even though they were in an earlier era. Flacco's SB run was epic. If you want to put that much emphasis on SB wins, surely he's more deserving. Simms also played lights outduring his post season SB run with the Giants. Even Hostetler had superior post season rating to Eli.
No, cause I already noted the fallacy of past HOF voting.
Nobody likes you and doesn't want to respond to you. The only way anyone could possibly think it's not subjective is if they either don't know the meaning of the word subjective or don't know how DVOA is calculated.
TheWinman
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wtf, His pick 6's are on him
WestCoastBearsFan
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Not sure how you can call past HOF voting a fallacy when it’s clearly a precedent. If they have done it once, and likely more than that, it is more than reasonable to think they would do it again. @Novak has also debunked that DVOA is in fact not a subjective stat.
WestCoastBearsFan
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Also not sure how you can say Flacco has is more deserving than Manning when Flacco had arguably one of the best defenses of all time, not to mention that Flacco only has 1 SB where Eli has 2 and 2 SB MVPs
wazzupi
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this is my longest thread ever *tears run down cheeks* I'm so very proud.
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What is DVOA? | Football Outsiders
An explanation of Football Outsiders' advanced statistics.
You can disagree with the efficiency or relevance as a 'rating system', but it is not subjective. It's no different than something like passer rating or rate+, it applies the same objective statistics to the same formula every time. It's just a bit more complicated.
For the record, I don't like the formula used for DVOA, or the formula used for passer rating. I think they both suck really, both for different reasons.
For DVOA, my main gripe is with where they draw the line on considering a play a "success", which is the very fundamental part of the formula. "On first down, a play is considered a success if it gains 45 percent of needed yards; on second down, a play needs to gain 60 percent of needed yards; on third or fourth down, only gaining a new first down is considered success." Just seems arbitrary, I don't know.
I don't like passer rating mainly because its naturally an inflationary statistic.
Both are indeed objective though.
