Musicians, Music and Musings...

[jakobeast]

[quote name="ginnie"]



I'd suggest just one pedal - a distortion. In fact, discard the pedal and play a small amp on volume 11 to get your distortion...

Later on maybe a wah-wah but its a tricky pedal to use right - you have to know when NOT to use it...



I do not suggest that you get one of those effect devices that have like 100 different effects. Most of them sound really artificial and for the next few years you should keep it simple and learn your stuff. Most of your work will in your strumming hand - that will define your style and sound more than anything else.[/quote]



I say let him play with the multi effect pedal. Until he becomes a pro musician, he can **** with different sounds, and will probably discover his sound, which will more then likely be the simple distortion.



Therein lies the true beauty of music. No one is right in this discussion. Some like Ginnie and I don't care for the multi-effect pedal sound. However, I think it could be a valuable tool to help a fella find his sound. I had a multi-effect toy for a while. It was fun. I got to sample some sounds and learn what certain effects do to the sound. As you can see above, my pedal board has a wah(which I rarely step on), a chorus pedal, and an EQ. I have a one of those Line 6 multi delay pedals, but I don't even play with that. I also have a flanger, but the chorus pedal replaced that.

 

[Ymono37]

[quote name="jakobeast"]I say let him play with the multi effect pedal. Until he becomes a pro musician, he can **** with different sounds, and will probably discover his sound, which will more then likely be the simple distortion.



Therein lies the true beauty of music. No one is right in this discussion. Some like Ginnie and I don't care for the multi-effect pedal sound. However, I think it could be a valuable tool to help a fella find his sound. I had a multi-effect toy for a while. It was fun. I got to sample some sounds and learn what certain effects do to the sound. As you can see above, my pedal board has a wah(which I rarely step on), a chorus pedal, and an EQ. I have a one of those Line 6 multi delay pedals, but I don't even play with that. I also have a flanger, but the chorus pedal replaced that.[/quote]

That's what I was getting at... the multi-effect pedals are cheap enough that someone who doesn't have a lot of knowledge about effects can use it to learn what they like and don't and down the road get something better. It's a value thing.



And if you're not gonna use that Line 6 delay pedal, I'll take it off your hands.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

I've never liked distortion in general. My favorite players had some of the cleanest tone ever, and some had some crazy distortion. But if I sit down with my bass and play with some ass-hole who thinks he's in Mettalica and bullshitting around with finger tapping I just leave. I always loved the Boss Dynamic-WAH or a Boss OC-3.



And I know this is gonna come off as condescending and me being an asshole. But if you wanna be challenged by your instrument, Blink 182 and Green Day will last you about a month of actual practice.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

DOUBLE POST!!!!

 

[jakobeast]

Just play what you like, find the sound you like and go to town.

 

[Ymono37]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]And I know this is gonna come off as condescending and me being an asshole. But if you wanna be challenged by your instrument, Blink 182 and Green Day will last you about a month of actual practice.[/quote]

YEP!

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Ymono37"]

YEP! [/quote]

Hey just trying to help out, those bands are bottom feeders when it comes to musicians.

 

[Ymono37]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]Hey just trying to help out, those bands are bottom feeders when it comes to musicians. [/quote]

And I'm sure it pains them so when they go to sleep at night on piles and piles of money with numerous eager co-eds. :dance:

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Ymono37"]

And I'm sure it pains them so when they go to sleep at night on piles and piles of money with numerous eager co-eds. :dance:[/quote]



Oh those songs I've already nailed down, that's just my favorite music from growing up.

 

[genefoley]

[quote name="Ymono37"]

And I'm sure it pains them so when they go to sleep at night on piles and piles of money with numerous eager co-eds. :dance:[/quote]



So you're ok with the fact that mainstream musicians make the lowest quality music possible in order to still make a profit? I'll stick to the bands who are all about the music.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Ymono37"]

And I'm sure it pains them so when they go to sleep at night on piles and piles of money with numerous eager co-eds. :dance:[/quote]

I would rather live as a bum than completely sell-out like those guys. Music means WAY more to me than making money, top ten hits? have you seen the list, wouldn't even want to be associated with that. If my band or a band I'm in is ever associated with the greats, like they have the sound of The Band, Allman Brothers, songs structured like Steely Dan, Brubeck, any of the greats, THEN I would die a happy man.



Sure those guys are "famous", so is Paris Hilton.....If I had the chance to meet them I would tell them to go take some lessons, especially the bassist in Green Day, I saw a tab book for their "hits"......Jamerson would have rolled over in his grave x10, gotten out, found whoever that so called musician is and knocked him out.

 

[ginnie]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]

I would rather live as a bum than completely sell-out like those guys. Music means WAY more to me than making money, top ten hits? have you seen the list, wouldn't even want to be associated with that. If my band or a band I'm in is ever associated with the greats, like they have the sound of The Band, Allman Brothers, songs structured like Steely Dan, Brubeck, any of the greats, THEN I would die a happy man.



Sure those guys are "famous", so is Paris Hilton.....If I had the chance to meet them I would tell them to go take some lessons, especially the bassist in Green Day, I saw a tab book for their "hits"......Jamerson would have rolled over in his grave x10, gotten out, found whoever that so called musician is and knocked him out.[/quote]



There's different ways of looking at this....

If you're a musician and want to improve your guitar/other instrument technique, there are some bands or individuals you may want to listen to that are more proficient on their instruments, but , if you just want to hear music that appeals to you, you may want to listen to something else.



As a bassist mainly, I appreciate the sounds of Chris Squire, Geezer or Geddy Lee and so on, but as a listener, I can be just as content with Iggy & the Stooges, The Stones or Neil Young & Crazy Horse where bass is not nearly as interesting and/or complicated. Sometimes just a simple driving bass line just "fits".



Same thing with electric guitar. While I admire immensely Hendrix, Page and Iommi among others, sometimes I'm more in the mood for The Runaways, The Sweet or the New York Dolls.



Most listeners of music couldn't care a damn about the technical prowess of the musicians anyway - their likes may be more about the beat, or the chant, or the lyrics or simple melodies. There has been some great classic music made over the years with simple, to the point guitar parts. A good example might be The Guess Who's "American Woman" - the guitar is basic (both lead and chords) but what a great sounding tune!

 

[jakobeast]

Just because a bass line may be so simple my balls could play it doesn't mean it doesn't fit. Does Green Day's bass lines need to be complicated? ****, they got their first hit singing about masturbation.



Do you know any of these musicians? For instance, can you for certain say that Mike Dirnt isn't a proficient bassist?



Ymono37's musical tastes run the gamut, trust me. I have heard the shit he listens to in a 20 minute span. It would be Django Reinhardt/Beatles/Hurt/John Hiatt/and then some shit I ain't never heard of. He knows good music. There is a difference between a good musician and some hack. Any musician you hear on the radio is no hack trust me.



BTW, it isn't selling out, it's buying in.



You know what, sure, those bands are sell out. Sleeping on piles of money. And you can laugh at them, call them talentless, spineless, ***, whatever. Doesn't change the fact they own a house, or several, are more then likely financially secure for the rest of their life, and probably their kids lives too, while we all sit here, some in mom's basement, some barely treading water to pay our bills, worrying how we are gonna make it to next month.

 

[jakobeast]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]

Hey just trying to help out, those bands are bottom feeders when it comes to musicians. [/quote]



I can remember a time when I thought that too. All full of piss and vinegar. Toting the "no sell out here" banner.



Then I saw what it takes to make it in the music biz, how it destroys people, friendships, lives. Record labels will make you swim through a trough of shit and piss if you want to sign a contract. Then when you get to the end, tell you it didn't look like you really wanted to do that and make you swim back.



Which is why I am not sad to hear that the labels are having a hard time as of late.

 

[Ruhtra]

I don't think I could agree more with Ginnie and Jako. The only thing I'd add is that this whole "starving artist" mentality, in addition to the music business stuff stated above by Jako, is why a lot of bands don't make it. Nobody is going to care about your music unless you're hungry for their attention, and attention for one's music should be the goal of any musician. You don't want to play to a handful of people in a bar, you want to fill the place up and move on to bigger venues (and pack those places too). And doing it for little to no money is insane! There's nothing noble or true about foregoing all that money in the name of "not selling out", you're just cheating yourself. No one's a charity here, we all got needs, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making as much money as you can off your craft.

 

[winos5]

In the immortal words of Lou Reed "You can't beat 2 guitars, bass, and drums"



Punk/Post punk pop is all about stripped down song structure to begin with.



To each their own musical taste.



IMO, serious musicians would give their left nut/tit to be as successful as any number of bands tagged as "sellouts".

 

[Ymono37]

[quote name="Ruhtra"]I don't think I could agree more with Ginnie and Jako. The only thing I'd add is that this whole "starving artist" mentality, in addition to the music business stuff stated above by Jako, is why a lot of bands don't make it. Nobody is going to care about your music unless you're hungry for their attention, and attention for one's music should be the goal of any musician. You don't want to play to a handful of people in a bar, you want to fill the place up and move on to bigger venues (and pack those places too). And doing it for little to no money is insane! There's nothing noble or true about foregoing all that money in the name of "not selling out", you're just cheating yourself. No one's a charity here, we all got needs, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making as much money as you can off your craft.[/quote]



I always say, they don't pay me to play. I'll do that for free. They pay me to transport all my shit to the gig, set it up, deal with any technical issues and then pack it all up and take it home at the end of the night... which means if I got successful enough to pay other people to do that shit, I fucking would.



Jako said it the best - it's not about selling out - it's about buying in.



I don't begrudge any artist for the shit they do to make it. I fucking hate American Idol, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't try it. What an easy way to get your foot in the door!

If someone came up to me today and said, "we'd like you to play guitar for Katy Perry's touring band..." you better fucking believe I would take it. It's more-than-likely good money AND the chance to make connections like you wouldn't believe. Hell, SRV got noticed playing for David Bowie... think about that.



Music snobbery doesn't help anyone... if a kid is rocking out to Green Day in his room and that's what inspires him to pick up a guitar - why the hell not? Some of the greatest blues legends (John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson) have songs anyone could learn in 10 minutes - does that make them talentless hacks, too? And trust me, if they play long enough - that itch to expand outward will happen. They'll discover the Hendrix, Page and Duane Allmans of the guitar world.



But no man... it's all about the "music"



Right.... sure it is.

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

[quote name="Ymono37"]



I always say, they don't pay me to play. I'll do that for free. They pay me to transport all my shit to the gig, set it up, deal with any technical issues and then pack it all up and take it home at the end of the night... which means if I got successful enough to pay other people to do that shit, I fucking would.



Jako said it the best - it's not about selling out - it's about buying in.



I don't begrudge any artist for the shit they do to make it. I fucking hate American Idol, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't try it. What an easy way to get your foot in the door!

If someone came up to me today and said, "we'd like you to play guitar for Katy Perry's touring band..." you better fucking believe I would take it. It's more-than-likely good money AND the chance to make connections like you wouldn't believe. Hell, SRV got noticed playing for David Bowie... think about that.



Music snobbery doesn't help anyone... if a kid is rocking out to Green Day in his room and that's what inspires him to pick up a guitar - why the hell not? Some of the greatest blues legends (John Lee Hooker, Robert Johnson) have songs anyone could learn in 10 minutes - does that make them talentless hacks, too? And trust me, if they play long enough - that itch to expand outward will happen. They'll discover the Hendrix, Page and Duane Allmans of the guitar world.



But no man... it's all about the "music"



Right.... sure it is.[/quote]



It is all about the music. I get paid for playing just based on how many people we bring to the places we play. And we play a lot of fucking songs no one ever fucking heard of, the percentage of people who have heard Help On The Way/Slipknot is close to zero, but everyone enjoys it cause most people just wait for their crowd Twist and Shout song anyways.



In terms of nothing noble by not selling out I guess thats just me, or maybe why popular music blows **** today. I know plenty of musicians who are in multiple bands, give lessons, play gigs almost every night and are financially secure. Do I think they'd stop playing their ridiculously talented songs to join Katy Perry? Not sure, I know a couple wouldn't.



And I stopped believing the if your on the radio your talented bull a while ago. The Jonas Brothers don't even have a concept of their instruments, and maybe this bassist for Green Day is good, I would love to sit down with him and see though. There's just way to many shitty people out there on the radio, and I really cannot believe there good musicians unless they prove it.

 

[Ruhtra]

[quote name="PatrickSharpRules"]In terms of nothing noble by not selling out I guess thats just me, or maybe why popular music blows **** today. I know plenty of musicians who are in multiple bands, give lessons, play gigs almost every night and are financially secure. Do I think they'd stop playing their ridiculously talented songs to join Katy Perry? Not sure, I know a couple wouldn't.



I know plenty like that too. None of them grew up dreaming of being in that situation, they grew up dreaming of touring far and wide, entertaining thousands and thousands of people (the money is coincidental, but needed). Neither making it big, or settling into a locally based gig system, makes anyone better than the other, they're just two different paths on the same journey; the proverbial fork in the road. No road is safer for your artistic integrity either, there are people who want you to do things you don't like everywhere. It is the nature of showbiz. If you want to keep your integrity, you have to fight to keep it, no matter what path you go down.



And I stopped believing the if your on the radio your talented bull a while ago. The Jonas Brothers don't even have a concept of their instruments, and maybe this bassist for Green Day is good, I would love to sit down with him and see though. There's just way to many shitty people out there on the radio, and I really cannot believe there good musicians unless they prove it.



And what is talent? I'm guessing we're talking about technical ability. In that case, I can agree, I bet if you quizzed a lot of mainstream music stars on scales, modes and other bits of theory, a good portion would fail. However, I don't necessarily think that a lack of technical ability automatically makes bad music. Sometimes, a raw, simplistic song is just fine. I know after I've been working on new material, I don't like listening to technical music, since I've just been agonizing over theory details. I like listening to something simple and easy to enjoy. I mean, dude, we're talking about rock music. None of these guys are Bach, Beethoven or Wagner.[/quote]Also if you're so unhappy that you continuously bring up how bad you think mainstream music is, then why don't you do something about it? Sure, you're only one person and your band is only one band, but all it takes is one to start changing perceptions.

 

[ginnie]

I'd just like to say that I don't think "Rock'n Roll" is about how technically proficient you are with your instrument.

I'd like to add to the Lou Reed quote a few posts back - Neil Young once said "Its all three chords, only three chords man"



BTW I disagree with the Robert Johnson comment - I've never heard anybody play guitar like him.