My Father Has Cell Tower On His Property....

AussieBear

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AussieBear forced to wear a helmet as a child due to a soft spot on his head

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youre confusing eras old man... color tv.. hard plastic helmet..

look at ommy .. probably gotz some money... does nothing wiff it at 70... just trys to protect it for a rainy day.. for when hes young again....he will die with plenty of money he could have enjoyed while he could still walk and chew steak without the need to blend it for a cup n straw.. but the fear.. the fear
 

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youre confusing eras old man... color tv.. hard plastic helmet..

look at ommy .. probably gotz some money... does nothing wiff it at 70... just trys to protect it for a rainy day.. for when hes young again....he will die with plenty of money he could have enjoyed while he could still walk and chew steak without the need to blend it for a cup n straw.. but the fear.. the fear
I can see that the soft spot on your skull hasnt gotten any better
 

AussieBear

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I can see that the soft spot on your skull hasnt gotten any better

i can see you havent gotten any younger..

keep battling inflation at 75.. its futile..

you must be one of those old mens... you know.. on the death bed handing out hundos to the nurses for favors... n not even sexual ones.. extra blankies n shat..

i wanna save 1.2 million so ill have the nessesary funds to go to one of those upscale retirement villages with dat eventual nursing wing.. cant wait for the meds..that comatose party... as they cart n leave me in a corner where ill drool, piss n shit on meself all day
 

Bearin' Down

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Can someone give me the formula to figure out the full realized income from the tower lease? 1,200 per month, 44 year lease, 3% increase every year after the first year.
3% is basically the rate of inflation. So you should look at it as 1200 dollars period.

I agree with the poster who said you should determine what that money would look like in a high yield investment account 35 years down the line. If you have debts, you should also see calculate what paying those off would look like based on your current methods versus in one shot (how much additional interest youd accrue adjusted for inflation).

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i can see you havent gotten any younger..

keep battling inflation at 75.. its futile..

you must be one of those old mens... you know.. on the death bed handing out hundos to the nurses for favors... n not even sexual ones.. extra blankies n shat..

i wanna save 1.2 million so ill have the nessesary funds to go to one of those upscale retirement villages with dat eventual nursing wing.. cant wait for the meds..that comatose party... as they cart n leave me in a corner where ill drool, piss n shit on meself all day
Good apirations on your part. Reminds me of the story of the minimum wage worker that saved over a million dollars in a retirement account. So, if he can do it so can you
 

remydat

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This is a bit misleading as the savings calculator is just showing you the future value of the payments. What Warden needs is to calculate the present value because in theory the 240k can also be invested today and grow and it grows at a faster rate than your payments because it's a lump sum at the start of the period rather than smaller sums over the course of 35 years.

There would be two ways to calculate this. First, if you assume the payments will occur in perpetuity then you need a present value of a perpetuity calculator. I probably wouldn't assume that though because the placement of the cell tower can change by the time the lease is over and **** in 44 years there may not even be cell towers as some new technology will render it obsolete. Not to mention Warden could simply never see the bulk of those payments because something may happen that results in him having to sell his property.

So I would just use the present value calculate in Microsoft Excel. The next question is what rate to input and that depends on what rate Warden thinks he can invest at. The higher the rate, the lower the value in present value terms. If we assume a 5% rate if he simply invested in stocks or something then you would enter 5%/12 as the rate as the payments are monthly, 420 and payment periods (35 years left * 12 months), and a payment of 1,200 a month. You would put in 0 for future value as you don't get lump sum payment at the end. You would then input 1 or 0 depending on whether the payment is at the beginning or end of the month.

That would work out to a present value of around 237-238k depending on whether you did the payments at beginning or end which is pretty consistent with the 240k they are offering.

So I suspect they just did a basic PV formula assuming a basic rate of return around 5% to come up with the lump sum value. So it's a fair deal unless Warden things he can get a higher rate of return. If for example he invests in stocks or mutual funds, returns over that time period are generally higher and it would be a bad deal for him. If you assumed a 10% rate of return then the PV drops to 139k or so.

Personally I would take the lump sum because my returns by just investing in stocks and bonds have been between 15 or 20% which means it's better for me to take the 240k and invest in the stock market now at 15 or 20%.

The only other thing to consider is as Ommy notes, the tax rates would be different as you tax rate may be lower in the future but that is assuming taxes remain the way they are now. For all we know the tax rates could go up or retirement ages could be extended so the issue here is you are gambling on a future 35 years away that could be very different than the reality today. Not to mention, Warden's not going to hit retirement until late in the lease so the reality is most of the payments will be made while he is still working and while if he is progressing at his job, his tax rate may be increasing. However, the biggest issue is that Warden's dad is 77 so already retired. So I would take the money now and lock in his father's presumably low tax rate now with a known tax rate rather than gamble that in the future Warden's tax rate will be lower than his dad's.

So unless Warden can only get a return less than 5% or unless he has confidence in the fact the company will extend the lease beyond the current 44 year lease or he has a favorable view of what will happen with respect to taxes and retirement, it's really a gamble not worth taking IMO. Having said that, I would still negotiation for more money as the property isn't going anywhere so if their offer 240k to start then they may be willing to go higher.

Edit - I did do a bit of a fudge in that I didn't take into account the 3% rate because it's just inflation. If you really wanted to take that into account, you would need to use the NPV function in excel but I didn't **** with that because it requires you to put in each pay period separately since the payment is changing and I had no desire to input 420 separate payments. In the end, I don't think it changes the real value of money because again it's just inflation.
 

Ares

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whats dumber .. dying with 1 million in da bank or blowing a million in your final few decades on earth..

cant take it wiff ya.. most 65-85 yr olds aint doing shit...just waiting to die... spend it in yo 30-50s..

This income would only become 1M if he owned it for the entire life of the 44 year lease.

The only way he gets a payout to blow is if he gets 240k, assuming that is what they offer AFTER his Dad passes away.

And 240k now means you are leaving like 400-600K on the table for the remainder of the life of the lease.

My pops took his lump sum retirement 4 years ago, blew 250-300k over that time period, and now he is back to work till he dies.

I don't disagree with enjoying your money but taking a lump sum is stupid, blowing it all it stupid, he can be smart about the income stream and save/grow it while allowing himself to enjoy it later on in his 50s....

That whole "WOOOOOOOO SPEND IT, WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" is dumb.

You blow all of it now and wind up having to keep working thru your 60s.... or live out your 70s and 80s scraping by on Social Security.

It aint like you don't still need money when you get old.... it aint like when you get old you suddenly don't care if you eat well, drink well, sleep well, live well...
 

remydat

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This income would only become 1M if he owned it for the entire life of the 44 year lease.

The only way he gets a payout to blow is if he gets 240k, assuming that is what they offer AFTER his Dad passes away.

And 240k now means you are leaving like 400-600K on the table for the remainder of the life of the lease.

My pops took his lump sum retirement 4 years ago, blew 250-300k over that time period, and now he is back to work till he dies.

I don't disagree with enjoying your money but taking a lump sum is stupid, blowing it all it stupid, he can be smart about the income stream and save/grow it while allowing himself to enjoy it later on in his 50s....

That whole "WOOOOOOOO SPEND IT, WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" is dumb.

You blow all of it now and wind up having to keep working thru your 60s.... or live out your 70s and 80s scraping by on Social Security.

It aint like you don't still need money when you get old.... it aint like when you get old you suddenly don't care if you eat well, drink well, sleep well, live well...

The problem wasn't the lump sum. It was the lack of discipline. That's probably the one thing I forgot to mention. If you dont have the discipline to actually invest the money and you are just going to blow it then you should put 0% interest in the PV calculation. That would increase the PV to over 600k because you aren't taking advantage of the time value of money by investing. Time value of money only matters if you actually plan to invest not spend.
 

Ares

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The problem wasn't the lump sum. It was the lack of discipline. That's probably the one thing I forgot to mention. If you dont have the discipline to actually invest the money and you are just going to blow it then you should put 0% interest in the PV calculation. That would increase the PV to over 600k because you aren't taking advantage of the time value of money by investing. Time value of money only matters if you actually plan to invest not spend.

The lump sum seems dumb to me... you pay a huge tax bill on the money and guarantee you only see that lump sum amount after taxes.... and you have to be sure you know how to invest it well and grow it.... and TBH yeah it is hard to be handed 240k and not want to spend alot of it.

I would take the payments and invest them personally... I don't see cell towers going anywhere for the next 20-30 years.
 

AussieBear

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Good apirations on your part. Reminds me of the story of the minimum wage worker that saved over a million dollars in a retirement account. So, if he can do it so can you

minimum wage? i have no wage.

but aussie land has the highest min wage in the world i think.. so if i need to.. maccas here i come for 20 dollars an hr..

im living on me retirement now.... have been for the last 7 years... plus the wifes part time editing gig is 2-3x our yearly expenses. we good.. im spending my retirement village money... if i live til 70-80.. ill be liquid poor but still have assets worth a pretty penny.. those are for the boy... my nursing ward is a 45... if im lucky enough to still be able to pull dat trigga..
 

AussieBear

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This income would only become 1M if he owned it for the entire life of the 44 year lease.

The only way he gets a payout to blow is if he gets 240k, assuming that is what they offer AFTER his Dad passes away.

And 240k now means you are leaving like 400-600K on the table for the remainder of the life of the lease.

My pops took his lump sum retirement 4 years ago, blew 250-300k over that time period, and now he is back to work till he dies.

I don't disagree with enjoying your money but taking a lump sum is stupid, blowing it all it stupid, he can be smart about the income stream and save/grow it while allowing himself to enjoy it later on in his 50s....

That whole "WOOOOOOOO SPEND IT, WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" is dumb.

You blow all of it now and wind up having to keep working thru your 60s.... or live out your 70s and 80s scraping by on Social Security.

It aint like you don't still need money when you get old.... it aint like when you get old you suddenly don't care if you eat well, drink well, sleep well, live well...

im not telling him to spend it if hes broke.. im telling him to spend it and live it up if hes in a decent spot.....

depending on where one lives (taxes)... one could easily scrape by on ss if they own they shat...
 

AussieBear

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The lump sum seems dumb to me... you pay a huge tax bill on the money and guarantee you only see that lump sum amount after taxes.... and you have to be sure you know how to invest it well and grow it.... and TBH yeah it is hard to be handed 240k and not want to spend alot of it.

I would take the payments and invest them personally... I don't see cell towers going anywhere for the next 20-30 years.

cells will be replaced like radios were.. technically he could just go live on said property for the next 44 years and live off that 1200 a month... sell off the majority of the shit he has now.... but eh.. if ya wanna work.. work i say.. you wanna tag out.. its eyeiight,...
 

remydat

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The lump sum seems dumb to me... you pay a huge tax bill on the money and guarantee you only see that lump sum amount after taxes.... and you have to be sure you know how to invest it well and grow it.... and TBH yeah it is hard to be handed 240k and not want to spend alot of it.

I would take the payments and invest them personally... I don't see cell towers going anywhere for the next 20-30 years.

Financially it's typically the better option because money in hand is better than money in the future.

In addition to the compounding interest, the more money you have the better your investing options. Most mutual funds for example have different share classes for different investors based on initial investment so a guy with 100k to invest is going to be able to afford a class of shares that results in lower management fees.

The other area where it comes in handy is leverage ie you can invest that 240k in say a mutual fund with 10 year returns in the 10-15% range. If you end up needing money at any point, you can easily secure a loan when the lender knows you have 240k sitting in a mutual fund. As long as your interest rate on the loan is less than the 10-15% you are going to come out ahead.

That's how I've always handled any lump sums i get such as my bonus or gains losses on investments. I just reinvest that shit immediately to the point where I am living paycheck to paycheck. If any emergency comes up then rather than withdrawing the money I just take out a loan which in this interest rate environment meant it was almost always lower than the returns I got for investing in stocks, bonds and mutual funds.

You should never use your own money to pay for major purchases unless your rate of return is less than the rate at which you can borrow.

But of course it's about the discipline as I'm always in position that if I had to pay off a loan immediately, the cash is there to do so. But until I do, my cash is being invested at higher rates of return.

So again the only major drawback is discipline.
 
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My Dad received a new offer today, $390k paid over 20 years. :lmao:

Those slippery cell tower companies. The last time they upped the offer was before my Dad found out that a T-Mobile dish was going on the tower (that's where the extra $200 per month comes from) so we're thinking another company has contracted to put a dish up there too. We'll find out shortly I'm sure.
 

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