My interview w/ Steve T. Gorches

[Diddy1122]

Oh and another thing to note about Toney, one which Fred loves to point out in reference to BG, is he absolutely torched good teams on a daily basis.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

J-Mart wrote:

There should be no one in Chicago who thinks clutch does not exist if they watched basketball in the 90s. I also feel a lot of people are coming around on BG. A large part of that goes to KC Johnson and I believe McGraw have recently wrote some articles on how valuable Gordon is. The key to winning over the fans is to win over the writers.

gorches is out of his fkn mind. if there is no such thing as clutch, then surely, there has to be no such thing as home court advantage. clutch is not a physical attribute or skill, it is drive, it is desire, it is an uncanny ability to elevate yourself above the limitations of yourself and your teammates.

if clutch doesnt exist, then a cheering crowd shouldnt change a game either. tell chicago fans that their noise is unnecessary. tell them they no longer have to boo the visiting team and wave the goddamn noodles when they shoot freethrows. tell them they cheer for nothing.

all of these things affect the game, and so does 5 seconds on the clock while youre sitting at the line and you gotta sink 3 freethrows to TIE the game... all on the road. if clutch doesnt exist, how come some people can score at the end of a game and some people just cant.

bg is NOT a luxury. but even if he was, hot water is luxury but can you see yourself living without it?

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'm looking forward to hearing Fred slam this guy...

 

[dougthonus]

There should be no one in Chicago who thinks clutch does not exist if they watched basketball in the 90s.

I think you are misunderstanding his point.

Jordan doesn't prove that there is clutch, because Jordan was an ultimate bad ass who could do what he wanted to you at any point. That didn't change because the situation was important. If there was "clutch" you'd have guys who normally aren't good who become much better at important types.

The only guy who pops in my mind when I think of that is Robert Horry. I think you could change the definition of clutch to be guys who simply can perform the same with the stakes high. Many guys shrink when the pressure is on, but the guys who don't, don't actually seem to improve to me, they just seem to do what they've always been able to do.

I think that's probably what he meant, and it's more or less what the statisticians have shown.

 

[Kush77]

Robert Horry is one guy who has hit clutch shots.

There are a few guys over the years in the NBA who haven't been great but have hit shots in clutch situations.

Toni Kukoc and John Paxson come to mind. I remember Rex Chapman hitting some game-winners in his day.

Sometimes there are stars who don't have that ability and then you have role players that can knock down a big shot.

Now I think Fred and Steve said it doesn't exist in baseball, I think it does. David Ortiz was pretty damn clutch for the Red Sox during that WS year in 04 and after that. That guy always seemed to come through with a big hit late in games. Now I get DT's point about being great, thus your clutch. But there have been a lot of baseball players that have been dogs in the postseason. I know we're talking diferent sports here but I remember Barry Bonds being absolute garbage in the postseason. He was great in the 2002 playoffs, but he was on the juice by then. Those years with the Pirates he wasn't very good.

 

[dougthonus]

Your example of Bonds is a guy wilting under pressure.

How many guys rise way above with the pressure and play better than normal? To me, clutch could just be defined as "not wilting". I don't think there are any players who play statistically notably better under heavy pressure with a large sample size of data.

There are guys who play notably worse though. To me, Gordon isn't "better" in the clutch, he is who he is in the clutch, which is very good. Kirk Hinrich is a guy who wilts.

 

[st. park]

I would agree that "clutch" is overstated in baseball and I'm generally inclined to believe that baseball players play to their ability in the playoffs or other clutch situations, if given a big enough sample size (play enough games).

That said, basketball is an entirely different sport and I do think there are players who clearly play better in end-of-game situations. I mean, there are stats that back this up, as was mentioned in the interview.

 

[engies]

Fred wrote:

engies wrote:

Drone's have began to infuriate me as much as Jerry Reinsdorf. I will give it a listen to but I don't know how you could've not been frustrated Fred. Nice guy or not I couldnt contain my frustration & anger if I had to listen to this drone.

As you'll hear in part II, I make the point that guys like Steve have a real influence on the average or casual fan. People who read this thread, and who listen to the shows on the BullsPodcasters, these are die-hard fans. They're not influenced by this, for the most part. Steve's paper has a circulation of 60,000...and maybe 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 people who are too busy to watch a ton of Bulls games will be left with the impression that this Gordon kid is no good. I'm sure it's helped to shape someone's opinion on Ben, or at least confirm the nonsense they've heard from Funk.

IMO, You have some responsibility to back up what you are saying with facts when you write for a paper. I've tracked his defense this year, and I provided 4 examples of really good guards who Ben matched up against this year and he absolutely dominated, especially with the Jason Terry example. (I was at that game, and he was matched up with Terry for the vast majority of that game. Gordon scored 35. In the 3rd quarter, Rose took over, and he would go one on one, and Terry never even turned around to look at the ball...he just tried to smother Gordon). There are many people like Steve in the media, and when you combine them together, they help to shape the opinions of the fanbase. Therefore, when Ben leaves, there will be little outcry the vast majority of paying customers. Reinsdorf will have no fear in cutting him lose.

Its lazy & irresponsible journalism that goes on everywhere these days be it sport, politics, world affairs, entertainment.

I don't get how these journalists get there jobs. I'm sure they are educated & must have some interest in sport if they are writing about it, but how can they not do there research & write about it. I mean if fans like yourself, like doug, like plenty of the posters here at this forum & other forums can do there research, what is these journalists excuse. Are they spending too much time down in the lunch room, surfing the internet, watching TV. I just dont understand there mentality

Thanks for the interview with him though

 

[Riker]

I like listening to Fred's interviews more than listening to "pro" podcasts like Dan Patrick or Basketball Jones, or the B.S. Report.

I think Fred could easily do it for ESPN or similar powerhouses.


That being said, this latest interview was great, great to hear them both holding their point and not bending.


Fred was millimeters from going nuts few times during the interview.....I think BG should get him as his agent.


But BG must be cursed, people compare him to freaking Vinnie Johnson, I mean....I don't know.

There has to be some bad karma or some really atrocious stuff that Ben did in his past life to get the treatment like this.

 

[??? ??????]

engies wrote:

Fred wrote:

engies wrote:

Drone's have began to infuriate me as much as Jerry Reinsdorf. I will give it a listen to but I don't know how you could've not been frustrated Fred. Nice guy or not I couldnt contain my frustration & anger if I had to listen to this drone.

As you'll hear in part II, I make the point that guys like Steve have a real influence on the average or casual fan. People who read this thread, and who listen to the shows on the BullsPodcasters, these are die-hard fans. They're not influenced by this, for the most part. Steve's paper has a circulation of 60,000...and maybe 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 people who are too busy to watch a ton of Bulls games will be left with the impression that this Gordon kid is no good. I'm sure it's helped to shape someone's opinion on Ben, or at least confirm the nonsense they've heard from Funk.

IMO, You have some responsibility to back up what you are saying with facts when you write for a paper. I've tracked his defense this year, and I provided 4 examples of really good guards who Ben matched up against this year and he absolutely dominated, especially with the Jason Terry example. (I was at that game, and he was matched up with Terry for the vast majority of that game. Gordon scored 35. In the 3rd quarter, Rose took over, and he would go one on one, and Terry never even turned around to look at the ball...he just tried to smother Gordon). There are many people like Steve in the media, and when you combine them together, they help to shape the opinions of the fanbase. Therefore, when Ben leaves, there will be little outcry the vast majority of paying customers. Reinsdorf will have no fear in cutting him lose.

Its lazy & irresponsible journalism that goes on everywhere these days be it sport, politics, world affairs, entertainment.

I don't get how these journalists get there jobs. I'm sure they are educated & must have some interest in sport if they are writing about it, but how can they not do there research & write about it. I mean if fans like yourself, like doug, like plenty of the posters here at this forum & other forums can do there research, what is these journalists excuse. Are they spending too much time down in the lunch room, surfing the internet, watching TV. I just dont understand there mentality

Thanks for the interview with him though

Well come on. 6 hours of the average journalists day is devoted to telling other people how much superior they are to everyone else. Who has time for research when you have those types of obligations?

I'm happy that my readers aren't drones. 82% of my readers think the Bulls should re-sign Gordon, they're educated.

When I did my thoughts on Ben Gordon on the qualifying offer, back at the beginning of October, the second point I made was for people to stop comparing Gordon to Vinnie Johnson.

Gordon is not a microwave.

Stop comparing Gordon to Vinnie Johnson and saying he should come off the bench because he’s like Vinnie Johnson. Those Pistons teams started their best two players in the backcourt. If we were to follow suit, Gordon would be one of our starters. Besides that, Gordon is a much better player than Johnson. Just run a quick look at their stats. Gordon’s career scoring average is higher than Johnson’s best season. Gordon is a very efficient scorer while Johnson was a very inefficient scorer. There is a reason why Ben Gordon is a starter in the NBA and Vinnie Johnson isn’t. Ben Gordon is simply a much better basketball player than Johnson.

Steve Gorches is obviously a guy not qualified to be writing about basketball, but his newspaper doesn't have the budget to pay for a qualified basketball writer, obviously, so he is forced to write for that form time to time. My suggestion to Gorches, is to just stick with what Brian Hanley writes that you can use for your paper, because you clearly don't follow basketball at all, and your opinions are dependent on the Chicago radio guys.

 

[Chris B]

My favorite part is Steve quoting Tom Waddle.

 

[engies]

Listened to the interview today. Look dude seems like a nice guy, but like Christian Bale stated in his little rant that leaked "You're a nice guy, you're a nice guy! but that don't f****** cut it when..." I'll continue that with "when you're feeding the public with ill advised miss informed unresearched material"

Good work Fred I can see why you had to cut him off a few times, usually I'd say thats rude but the ignorance he was showing was inexplicable. I can't wait for part 2 because you held your own & even though you didn't change his opinion he at least had to admit that some of your stats were correct.

 

[Fred]

I just posted Part II. After listening to it again....I know it's rude to interrupt someone so much, but I couldn't help myself. I know it bothered some of you...my apologies.

 

[Rose1]

Is Dougy Fresh the only one talking about the team needs these days?

 

[Rose1]

Fred wrote:

I just posted Part II. After listening to it again....I know it's rude to interrupt someone so much, but I couldn't help myself. I know it bothered some of you...my apologies.

nice pod Freddy G

 

[mlewinth]

"you know who i would like!?...uh uh uh uh....I dont think he is a free agent...but Dirk"....WAS THAT A POINT!?!?!?!? Did he make a point!? Jesus H Dude! I hope Steve's employer listened to this cast, he should be fired! You know what I want Steve, I want Wade at the 2, I want LeBron at the 3, lets throw CP3 at the 1 and a front court of Yao and Howard...yea, that should do it!

Fred, I simply don't know how you kept as much composure as you kept. This guy is an absolute joke! A JOKE! It's probobly ok, cause he writes for Northwest Indiana which is renown for their illiteracy (and their total readership of an overwhelming 60,000 people).

 

[Dpauley23]

He had that dorky laugh down though. I would of pulled off the today junior line though

 

[Hendu0520]

Ok first of all yes Fred great interview you do have good skills in that department. I think that some of you are a little harsh on the guy, we shouldn't care too much about what the casual fan reads. If they watch or go to one game, Ben is definately gonna be one of the players that sticks out in theire minds.

1) I don't know how we always get into the Hinrich/Gordon thing, THEY PLAY DIFFERENT POSITIONS, IT IS ALMOST APPLES TO ORANGES. Kirk is a PG and we have a better one, we don't have a better SG than Gordon so we probably should keep him.

2) Ben Gordon does seem to get criticized but that is the situation he is in. He was our best player and now he is our 2nd best, but defending him shouldn't be making up stuff. Ben can be a middle of the pack defender but when he gets hot, he becomes a very very poor defender. The more he heats up offensively the less he thinks he has to do defensively.

I know we all watched the games, I think it was Game 5, TNT did a segment following Ben, he would just give up on plays. He goes from solid to the worst defender in the league.

3) Lastly Fred you got on him real quick about the Black Hole. Are you kidding me? Just because the guy has 42 points doesn't give him the right to come down and forget about the team, and he LOST US GAMES AS WELL BY TAKING HORRIBLE SHOTS. When there are 3 guys on you PASS THE BALL. HE IS INCAPABLE, NO ARGUMENT IT IS A FACT THAT BEN IS A BLACK HOLE, NOBODY BUT ROSE IS GOOD AT ASSISTS SO HIM BEING 2ND DOESN'T MEAN HE PASSES.

 

[Hendu0520]

I love BG but it seems like everyone either loves him or hates him there has to be some middle ground here.

 

[Diddy1122]

Hendu0520 wrote:

Ok first of all yes Fred great interview you do have good skills in that department. I think that some of you are a little harsh on the guy, we shouldn't care too much about what the casual fan reads. If they watch or go to one game, Ben is definately gonna be one of the players that sticks out in theire minds.

1) I don't know how we always get into the Hinrich/Gordon thing, THEY PLAY DIFFERENT POSITIONS, IT IS ALMOST APPLES TO ORANGES. Kirk is a PG and we have a better one, we don't have a better SG than Gordon so we probably should keep him.

2) Ben Gordon does seem to get criticized but that is the situation he is in. He was our best player and now he is our 2nd best, but defending him shouldn't be making up stuff. Ben can be a middle of the pack defender but when he gets hot, he becomes a very very poor defender. The more he heats up offensively the less he thinks he has to do defensively.

I know we all watched the games, I think it was Game 5, TNT did a segment following Ben, he would just give up on plays. He goes from solid to the worst defender in the league.

3) Lastly Fred you got on him real quick about the Black Hole. Are you kidding me? Just because the guy has 42 points doesn't give him the right to come down and forget about the team, and he LOST US GAMES AS WELL BY TAKING HORRIBLE SHOTS. When there are 3 guys on you PASS THE BALL. HE IS INCAPABLE, NO ARGUMENT IT IS A FACT THAT BEN IS A BLACK HOLE, NOBODY BUT ROSE IS GOOD AT ASSISTS SO HIM BEING 2ND DOESN'T MEAN HE PASSES.

Ok, so I agree on point 1. I never understood why everyone tears down BG with Hinrich, and vice versa. They are completely different players, who play different positions. And I agree with your second point to a certain extent. BG is an average defender, who does have lapses of defensive commitment at times. Then again so does Tyrus, who alot of drones believe is a good defender. But as for the game 5 reference, umm, BG was hurt. I think playing on one leg will definitely make you a poorer defender.

Now your last point I completely disagree with. Going around writing things like "IT IS A FACT THAT BEN IS A BLACK HOLE" without backing it up with actual facts is the exact type of writing that Fred called Steve out on, and rightfully so. And your last statement "ROSE IS GOOD AT ASSISTS SO HIM BEING 2ND DOESN'T MEAN HE PASSES", well then what the hell does it mean? Typically to get an assist you need to PASS THE BALL. The guy averaged 3.4apg, 2nd best of his career, this year. He took 16 shots per game, which of the top 20 scorers in the league, only 3 took less shots, and they are all interior players. Yes, BG can ball hog at times, so does Salmons, and he can put himself in some awful situations with the ball. But he is by no means a black hole out there, and it's that type of, I guess I would say black balling, that has hounded BG his entire career, and a point that countless drones use to tear him down with.