NBA Finals IGT Game 7: Miami Heat 3, San Antonio Spurs 3

[CODE_BLUE56]

Eh...at the time I wasn't quite as surprised that it was a no call. It was consistent with how they were calling the game at the time, but perhaps that's the key.

That was an interesting call. Could have been a flagrant, but the refs were letting them play a bit at the end . I know there were a few plays late where lebron got knocked on his ass and he definitely got fouled, and there was nothing...*waits for lebron haters to yell at me through their computer*

 

[houheffna]

What other sport has refs admitting to blowing calls for $$? Please, I'd love to hear it.

No, I don't think Stern is happy about SA in the Finals. If Westbrook didn't go down, the Spurs aren't in the finals, but that is small potatoes to having Lebron in the finals. The Heat are #1 for $$ and ratings because people care. The Spurs don't draw ratings argument holds no salt, because they are up against the evil empire, which is as much ratings as they need.

As far as Vegas goes, the ref who admitted to blowing calls on purpose because of point bets provided enough evidence in how Vegas $$ could easily be involved. Quit feigning ignorance.

And how can you deny that the NBA is the most easily rigged game? There are fouls every 45 seconds, up and down the court. Sure, point the finger at other sports, like the NFL, it doesn't bother me. I have no problem admitting that a sport I love could have shady outcomes, like the NFL, but the sport with the most OPPORTUNITY to have a rigged game, by FAR, is the NBA. The refs play a much more significant role, night in and night out, in basketball then in any other sport.

Keep denying, though. Stern and the NBA of the future absolutely LOVES fans/message board heroes who blindly support them, regardless of the product on the court. Keep that $$ flowing

Stern has been around for 30 years....this is the 5th time the Spurs have been in the Finals. I believe they swept Lebron before...not many watched...I don't think Jordan's titles were rigged...I think he earned them.

IF you watched the game...Parker's fadeaway 3 was rigged? Those Spurs being on the line with the chance to put the game away...rigged?

Speaking of Jordan...he only played what, 2 7 game series in the 90's? 1992 vs. Knicks and 1998 vs. Pacers...NEVER in the Finals...why not? He is the King! It never happened though. If Stern rigs games...he is awfully dumb, because I would have put Jordan in a 7 game series in the Finals...oh, and he never plays baseball.

 

[Gunzaan]

I think if the league is rigged, its probably more for point shaving and point differentiation than actually deciding wins and losses. But who knows really. What I do know is that, watching these games, determining the right call is hard. Too many factors to consider, and they are all happening in real time. Gotta watch the feet, the arms, the legs. Where are they on the court? Then you gotta watch the contact: the screens, the low post position battles,etc. You got refs at different angles, but all of this stuff is happening at once.

I know from my point of view, I judge the game quite a bit worse than they do. And yea they're professionals, I get that. But there's a lot of nuance to being a referee(i.e. 50/50 contact situations). And also a lot of minute rules you dont catch from being a basketball layman that they know. Reviewing crucial plays help(but that cant cover nearly everything that may need reviewing because that takes too long), and even with that we can still make mistakes. All im saying is that the NBA, or a lot of basketball in general, is difficult to put under perfect scrutiny(i dont mean scrutiny as in "scolding" but as in referee discretion). So sometimes they get calls wrong, because,well, they got the call wrong. Also, home cooking does exist. And star bias. That goes for any team, regardless of market or affiliation.

To be fair, the reason why the refs swallow their whistle at the end of games, specifically THIS GAME, is because if they put the game under higher scrutiny, they might play a bigger part in determining the outcome of the game, specifically by getting a call wrong. And the refs are scrutinized enough as it is. Would you rather the refs no call and wave off 50/50 contact, or get more whistle happy and allow a team to win the game on free throws?

Neither of those situations in OT were determined fouls and they shouldn't have been.

I can see wwhat you're saying and can agree with that. Wwhen I say "rigged" I'm not saying they determine who plays who, but point shaving makes a big difference in the playoffs and it is semi-obvious to anyone who isn't defensive about the NBA. Does Stern want SA in the finals? Hell no, they don't bring in $$ and ratings. That is probably why they are fined during the regular season for resting players.

If you don't think, or see, NBA refs influencing the game more often when compared to other sports, then I think you're a blind NBA homer. It seems pretty damn obvious to me. It is a shame, because basketball could be a beautiful sport of "best team wins."

 

[houheffna]

I can see wwhat you're saying and can agree with that. Wwhen I say "rigged" I'm not saying they determine who plays who, but point shaving makes a big difference in the playoffs and it is semi-obvious to anyone who isn't defensive about the NBA. Does Stern want SA in the finals? Hell no, they don't bring in $$ and ratings. That is probably why they are fined during the regular season for resting players.

If you don't think, or see, NBA refs influencing the game more often when compared to other sports, then I think you're a blind NBA homer. It seems pretty damn obvious to me. It is a shame, because basketball could be a beautiful sport of "best team wins."

There are very few times the best team DON'T win...very few.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Hello everyone.
Just wanted to say that the Heat only won tonight because San Antonio choked, big time.
They had it in the bag and then beat there damned selves with bad turnovers, missed free throws in the fourth quarter and its almost like Tony Parker just plain died.
I believe he was hirting though.
Oh and by the way, Lebron James sucked donkey dick the first 3 quarters while Boris fucking killed him.
Miami is very fortunate to be playing another game this season.
San Antonio must feel devistated knowing how they just layed down and just gave away an NBA title to Miami and the refs cannot be blamed.
Lebron was completly out of his game for 3 whole quarters.
Would of been nice to see the tears roll down Lebron and his gangs face while coach Spoalstra gave another dumb ass speach about it to the reporters.

 

[clonetrooper264]

That was an interesting call. Could have been a flagrant, but the refs were letting them play a bit at the end . I know there were a few plays late where lebron got knocked on his ass and he definitely got fouled, and there was nothing...*waits for lebron haters to yell at me through their computer*

Yeah that's why I say I'm not surprised by the no call...it went with the flow of the game at that time. Refs swallowed their whistles down the stretch. Most of the time, I'm ok with that unless it's something really ridiculous.

I personally never believe Lebron gets knocked to the floor by anyone's strength other than his own. He's just too strong for a guy like Danny Green (just an example) to run into him and send him buckling to the floor. I think back to the Pacers series and how DJ Augustin ran into some Heat player and I think it was Reggie Miller who said something like "you mean to tell me that tiny little DJ Augustin knocked over _______?" and I think _____ was Lebron but I don't quite remember. Point is, I'm under the impression that Lebron would need to be hit by a guy of Shaq's size to be sent to the ground as easily as he makes it seem at times.

 

[Gunzaan]

Stern has been around for 30 years....this is the 5th time the Spurs have been in the Finals. I believe they swept Lebron before...not many watched...I don't think Jordan's titles were rigged...I think he earned them.

IF you watched the game...Parker's fadeaway 3 was rigged? Those Spurs being on the line with the chance to put the game away...rigged?

Speaking of Jordan...he only played what, 2 7 game series in the 90's? 1992 vs. Knicks and 1998 vs. Pacers...NEVER in the Finals...why not? He is the King! It never happened though. If Stern rigs games...he is awfully dumb, because I would have put Jordan in a 7 game series in the Finals...oh, and he never plays baseball.

You didn't answer any of my points. Obviously, chance plays a part but the refs influence is obvious.

What other sports have refs admitting to point shaving? Enlighten me.

What other sport is more over-officiated then basketball? Please tell me of another sport that is more officiated then basketball.

I came on too strong in my original posts with the word "rigged." The NBA isn't exactly rigged, but by far the most easily influenced sport in the world. I understand that you love the sport and that your defenses go haywire when someone rips on it, but I have yet to see an argument that defies what I see during the playoffs: the NBA is the most influenced sporting product out there, whether by refs, the NBA admin (Stern), or Vegas.

I'd love to believe otherwise, but the amount of bs calls I see every game, it is hard to do.

How doesn't Vegas influence the spread? I'm not talking about Stern, I'm talking about $$, bets, refs and the spread.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

There are very few times the best team DON'T win...very few.

What?
Who's the better team?
Miami has lost 3 out of the last six against the same team in the finals.
That doesn't seem like a very few times to me.
I don't think Miami is the better team at all.
The Spurs just choked, plain and simple..
Had the Spurs won tonight would you be calling the Heat the better team, while lesser team is holding up a trophy.????....and on the road?
Come on man.

 

[clonetrooper264]

You didn't answer any of my points. Obviously, chance plays a part but the refs influence is obvious.

What other sports have refs admitting to point shaving? Enlighten me.

What other sport is more over-officiated then basketball? Please tell me of another sport that is more officiated then basketball.

I came on too strong in my original posts with the word "rigged." The NBA isn't exactly rigged, but by far the most easily influenced sport in the world. I understand that you love the sport and that your defenses go haywire when someone rips on it, but I have yet to see an argument that defies what I see during the playoffs: the NBA is the most influenced sporting product out there, whether by refs, the NBA admin (Stern), or Vegas.

I'd love to believe otherwise, but the amount of bs calls I see every game, it is hard to do.

How doesn't Vegas influence the spread? I'm not talking about Stern, I'm talking about $$, bets, refs and the spread.

In theory, refs betting on games is supposedly eradicated so Vegas shouldn't have any part in it. Won't say anything about Stern though.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Also for the lulz...the world's greatest fans: Heat fans

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...t-fans-leave-nba-finals-game-6-051052669.html

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I can see wwhat you're saying and can agree with that. Wwhen I say "rigged" I'm not saying they determine who plays who, but point shaving makes a big difference in the playoffs and it is semi-obvious to anyone who isn't defensive about the NBA.

Well, there have been quite a few blowouts in the playoffs this season, specifically in these finals. Game 1 and 6 were the only really good games from start to finish. So, you're saying that this rigging has to do with point shavings rather than determining "who plays who". So, as we see it, the refs don't actually determine who wins or not, just whether or not they cover the spread? Right? Then your point about game 7 is moot.

That is probably why they are fined during the regular season for resting players.

Or because stern thinks its a disrespect to the "business" aspect of the NBA. I dont agree with this line of thinking from Stern, but that's probably the reason he fined them.

If you don't think, or see, NBA refs influencing the game more often when compared to other sports, then I think you're a blind NBA homer. It seems pretty damn obvious to me. It is a shame, because basketball could be a beautiful sport of "best team wins."

Lol ok. That may be true but that has to do with the nature of the game doesn't it? Maybe because other sports have much different settings? You can't the refs going all "laissez-faire" here, because the game isn't football. Players get hurt enough as it is, especially when playing 82 games in a season.

In a 7 game playoffs setting, usually the best team wins, that's the point of the 7 games.It's a normalizing idea. You can't look at that in an abstraction though. You do have to factor matchups and how well players are playing in, say, recent time. That does make a difference. But you're not going to see crazy upsets. And when you do seem some series that dont end up as expected, they can probably be explained.

 

[Mr. Cub]

****! Again. I am still mad about this game.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

And,for the record, I'm a spurs fan. This game sucked haha(well not the game itself i suppose but the result wasn't too great). I went to a friend's house and EVERYONE there was a big spurs fan. The deflation that occurred in that house towards the end of that game was insane.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I think if the league is rigged, its probably more for point shaving and point differentiation than actually deciding wins and losses. But who knows really. What I do know is that, watching these games, determining the right call is hard. Too many factors to consider, and they are all happening in real time. Gotta watch the feet, the arms, the legs. Where are they on the court? Then you gotta watch the contact: the screens, the low post position battles,etc. You got refs at different angles, but all of this stuff is happening at once.

I know from my point of view, I judge the game quite a bit worse than they do. And yea they're professionals, I get that. But there's a lot of nuance to being a referee(i.e. 50/50 contact situations). And also a lot of minute rules you dont catch from being a basketball layman that they know. Reviewing crucial plays help(but that cant cover nearly everything that may need reviewing because that takes too long), and even with that we can still make mistakes. All im saying is that the NBA, or a lot of basketball in general, is difficult to put under perfect scrutiny(i dont mean scrutiny as in "scolding" but as in referee discretion). So sometimes they get calls wrong, because,well, they got the call wrong. Also, home cooking does exist. And star bias. That goes for any team, regardless of market or affiliation.

To be fair, the reason why the refs swallow their whistle at the end of games, specifically THIS GAME, is because if they put the game under higher scrutiny, they might play a bigger part in determining the outcome of the game, specifically by getting a call wrong. And the refs are scrutinized enough as it is. Would you rather the refs no call and wave off 50/50 contact, or get more whistle happy and allow a team to win the game on free throws?

Neither of those situations in OT were determined fouls and they shouldn't have been.

You've got to be kidding. They were both CLEARLY fouls. I can halfway understand not calling the one on the cross-court inbound pass that could've been a foul on Bosh and could have given S.A. a chance to send it to double OT (sort of). It was a botched play and it could've been construed as a bail-out. But the foul by Allen on Manu going to the hole was an EASY call. Should have given the Spurs the chance to go up 1.

 

[RoseMVP1]

The league is rigged to an extent. Donaghy(spelling?) already came out and said so. The Heat got their 1st ring because Cuban pissed off Stern at the time and Stern had it set up so they would call phantom calls against the Mavs. It's all in his book and if memory serves me correctly I believe that Wade, starting with game 3, averaged 20 free throw attempts a game which is insane. Forget the LeBron heat teams and go back further to the 06 series like I previously mentioned, that series between the Spurs and Suns, and the infamous Kings Lakers series. I'm sure there are more but those are the ones that come to mind. Basically it all goes back to David Stern. The guy is an absolute joke. Most of the drafts are rigged unless they have no note worthy players(you can't call it a coincidence that ass teams get the #1 overall pick with no real star in the draft...Milwaukee, Toronto, New Jersey etc). We shouldn't even have Derrick Rose. I just saw the video again yesterday of the rigged Ewing draft. We can only hope that Adam Silver helps fix a lot of this because Stern has begun to ruin it.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

You've got to be kidding. They were both CLEARLY fouls. I can halfway understand not calling the one on the cross-court inbound pass that could've been a foul on Bosh and could have given S.A. a chance to send it to double OT (sort of). It was a botched play and it could've been construed as a bail-out. But the foul by Allen on Manu going to the hole was an EASY call. Should have given the Spurs the chance to go up 1.

Manu drove into Allen for like a second, which really wasn't a contact situation late in game. Ray allen swiped at manu's arm once, but it was barely noticeable. Then he stripped manu of the ball. That's what happened. I literally rewinded that replay from espn and looked at like 4 or 5 times. I can definitely see why they didn't call that

 

[clonetrooper264]

It's all in his book and if memory serves me correctly I believe that Wade, starting with game 3, averaged 20 free throw attempts a game which is insane.

Woah 20 fts a game for one player alone? You've got to be kidding me.

 

[houheffna]

You didn't answer any of my points. Obviously, chance plays a part but the refs influence is obvious.

What other sports have refs admitting to point shaving? Enlighten me.

What other sport is more over-officiated then basketball? Please tell me of another sport that is more officiated then basketball.

I came on too strong in my original posts with the word "rigged." The NBA isn't exactly rigged, but by far the most easily influenced sport in the world. I understand that you love the sport and that your defenses go haywire when someone rips on it, but I have yet to see an argument that defies what I see during the playoffs: the NBA is the most influenced sporting product out there, whether by refs, the NBA admin (Stern), or Vegas.

I'd love to believe otherwise, but the amount of bs calls I see every game, it is hard to do.

How doesn't Vegas influence the spread? I'm not talking about Stern, I'm talking about $$, bets, refs and the spread.

The b.s. calls are a result of human error...not necessarily a mandate from Stern. The Spurs bieng in the Finals 5 times when they were considered one of the most boring teams in sports for a decade should prove that its not rigged. Who rigs that???

 

[Les Grossman]

Seriously.... SA is up 94-89 with 28 seconds left and they lose. What a choke job. Miss a free throw... force a LBJ miss... start playing hot potato with the rebound... LBJ hits a 3... miss another FT... Ray allen hits tough/clutch 3... then go scoreless for the final 2:42 in OT.

Now Miami is going into game 7 with the mindset of, "We should have lost, now we live to fight for the title." while SA is going into game 7 thinking, "We should have won.... now we have to play another game." They all looked deflated.

I actually won't be surprised if MIA blows them out in game 7

I agree, I think MIA blows out SA in game 7.

 

[Les Grossman]

:yep:

The big mistake imo was that the Spurs didn't put anyone in the game that could definitely grab the rebound once they forced the miss. You know they're going for 3, but their best rebounder on the floor at the time (Leonard) is guarding the shooter. That's a problem. Bosh simply had a pure length advantage over all the Spurs players.

No way. Big guys don't always help with rebounding 3 point shots. Those are long rebounds usually.