O.T. Sanders sabotaged himself in meetings.

[wklink]

I know this is a bit off topic, but does anyone ever wonder how far Johnny Manziel would have fell if the Browns were not dumb enough to draft him in the 1st round?

Good question. I think probably mid third round. A lot of people were surprised when he went in the first round, even with the extra pick for Cleveland. Someone might have taken a flier on him in the 2nd round but many of the same questions that Shedeur had in this years draft were apparent with Johnny Manziel. Talented, sometimes undisciplined and unpredictable. I think Sanders is a better athlete overall and actually might play into a decent QB although I don't know if that is possible in a city like Cleveland.

 

[--CyBear--]

I'm not doubting that there is probably is some residual bias. I'm sure there are some out there that still believe stupid things like the idea that an African American isn't capable of playing QB effectively.

But I don't think what happened to Shedeur Sanders is the result of racism or the 'black quarterback' bias theory. I think, if anything, it is more the Johnny Manziel phenomena where a player is coddled and treated like he is the second coming for so long that he actually believes it and it shows up in his attitude. Frankly I think Sanders scared GMs with his lack of preparation and his arrogant behavior. That is a bad combination and it rarely plays out well in the NFL.

His dad got away with it because he was both a very good player and still aware enough to realize that he really hadn't accomplished anything when he entered the league. Once there he also realized that he would fast become a laughing stock if he let up and didn't continue to work hard at his position. Deion showed that he might be arrogant, but he wasn't stupid. I don't think Shadeur is either but being Deion Sander's son probably got him a lot more slack and accolades than Deon ever wouldn't have gotten with a working class dad.

While I agree, I also see Prime's point of view. This stuff is always about a matter of degrees. If a white QB in that situation goes in 4 instead of 5, It's not that big of a deal but it would indicate that Prime is not completely off base here. 90% equal is still not equal but it's the sort of splitting hairs that we can't solve here.

 

[modo]

While I agree, I also see Prime's point of view. This stuff is always about a matter of degrees. If a white QB in that situation goes in 4 instead of 5, It's not that big of a deal but it would indicate that Prime is not completely off base here. 90% equal is still not equal but it's the sort of splitting hairs that we can't solve here.

this is just a made up argument. what white QB went in the fourth round of this years draft that acted just like Sanders did in his interviews?

There is no way to know this.

The draft has evolved over the years and teams are now taking attitude and interviews more seriously.

Sanders is a huge risk that has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Good question. I think probably mid third round. A lot of people were surprised when he went in the first round, even with the extra pick for Cleveland. Someone might have taken a flier on him in the 2nd round but many of the same questions that Shedeur had in this years draft were apparent with Johnny Manziel. Talented, sometimes undisciplined and unpredictable. I think Sanders is a better athlete overall and actually might play into a decent QB although I don't know if that is possible in a city like Cleveland.

Just to be clear: you think Shedeur is a better athlete than Manziel?

 

[--CyBear--]

Good question. I think probably mid third round. A lot of people were surprised when he went in the first round, even with the extra pick for Cleveland. Someone might have taken a flier on him in the 2nd round but many of the same questions that Shedeur had in this years draft were apparent with Johnny Manziel. Talented, sometimes undisciplined and unpredictable. I think Sanders is a better athlete overall and actually might play into a decent QB although I don't know if that is possible in a city like Cleveland.

Manziel did his his best Eddie Haskell and was prepared for interviews before the draft. It was still reported he was off QB needy boards. That said, I found this quote "The Browns weren't the only ones fooled by Manziel during the interview process here," I actually find it surprising with how often the Browns have been burned and they still rolled these dice on Sanders, even in 5. Maybe taking an earlier QB made that more viable for them. Not saying that another team shouldn't have rolled those dice earlier in the draft but Cleveland QB fails is becoming legendary.

 

[--CyBear--]

this is just a made up argument. what white QB went in the fourth round of this years draft that acted just like Sanders did in his interviews?

There is no way to know this.

The draft has evolved over the years and teams are now taking attitude and interviews more seriously.

Sanders is a huge risk that has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

Of course there's no way to know this and didn't say it happened but to completely dismiss that possibility, even if you or I don't think it happened, doesn't make us right. It's called being open to a point of view instead of dismissive. I'm on your side of this but boards always make these gray issues black and white . Point is that we have our opinions but no one can know.

That Cleveland paid a king's ransom for a Black QB just a few years back doesn't help Prime's argument either.

 

[--CyBear--]

Just to be clear: you think Shedeur is a better athlete than Manziel?

Not. Pretty comparable but the edge goes to Manziel who was quicker twitch on scrambles and had more pop in his arm.

 

[iueyedoc]

Great, now do all the sports stars kids who didn’t make it.

I think you mean now do all the sports stars kids who didn’t make it even though they had e NFL level "tools" but so spoiled NFL teams passed on them.

I can't think of any others.
And that's your idiotic claim so I believe in a typical point counterpoint discussion that task would lie with you. Good luck.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

FWIW, I haven't seen or read anything from Prime or Sheduer that racism was part of this.

That's all come from nonsense people.

 

[wklink]

Just to be clear: you think Shedeur is a better athlete than Manziel?

In some important respects yes. I think his skillset translates to the NFL better than Manziel's did. But in some ways both are similar. Having said that I don't think the reason why Johnny Manziel failed in the NFL was because he wasn't talented enough to succeed. Manziel's problems were between the ears, not in his skillset.

 

[wklink]

Manziel did his his best Eddie Haskell and was prepared for interviews before the draft. It was still reported he was off QB needy boards. That said, I found this quote "The Browns weren't the only ones fooled by Manziel during the interview process here," I actually find it surprising with how often the Browns have been burned and they still rolled these dice on Sanders, even in 5. Maybe taking an earlier QB made that more viable for them. Not saying that another team shouldn't have rolled those dice earlier in the draft but Cleveland QB fails is becoming legendary.

Yeah but the warning signs were there all along and most scouts saw the potential issues with his lack of discipline and off field antics. The drinking and carousing were well known prior to the draft. It was quite likely that he was an alcoholic already in his early time at A&M. I still remember the talk about him falling into the second round. He was going to be a question mark.

 

[alswank87]

I think you mean now do all the sports stars kids who didn’t make it even though they had e NFL level "tools" but so spoiled NFL teams passed on them.

I can't think of any others.
And that's your idiotic claim so I believe in a typical point counterpoint discussion that task would lie with you. Good luck.

You know what you know and you don’t know what you don’t know. Too bad you don’t know thousands of times more than what you know here.

 

[--CyBear--]

Yeah but the warning signs were there all along and most scouts saw the potential issues with his lack of discipline and off field antics. The drinking and carousing were well known prior to the draft. It was quite likely that he was an alcoholic already in his early time at A&M. I still remember the talk about him falling into the second round. He was going to be a question mark.

No reason outside of troubled QBs but do you remember Todd Marinovich? These guys still went early and i think that may be some of Prime's point. That said, the difference is those guys did what was asked in workouts and chalkboard. Uncooperative and argumentative is a BAD job interview.

 

[dennehy]

Of course there's no way to know this and didn't say it happened but to completely dismiss that possibility, even if you or I don't think it happened, doesn't make us right. It's called being open to a point of view instead of dismissive. I'm on your side of this but boards always make these gray issues black and white . Point is that we have our opinions but no one can know.

That Cleveland paid a king's ransom for a Black QB just a few years back doesn't help Prime's argument either.

They also paid that for a black QB that has some significant off field issues, although I can't remember if they came out before he went to CLE. Either way, I'm sure some of the info about him was out there when he went to CLE.

 

[modo]

Of course there's no way to know this and didn't say it happened but to completely dismiss that possibility, even if you or I don't think it happened, doesn't make us right. It's called being open to a point of view instead of dismissive. I'm on your side of this but boards always make these gray issues black and white . Point is that we have our opinions but no one can know.

That Cleveland paid a king's ransom for a Black QB just a few years back doesn't help Prime's argument either.

Did Sanders say this was racism or is this just echos from all the outside parties who are just projecting?

 

[bamainatlanta]

FWIW, I haven't seen or read anything from Prime or Sheduer that racism was part of this.

That's all come from nonsense people.

Yeah but black QB’s were discriminated against 30years ago.

 

[Washington]

On a positive note for Sanders, he has a veteran in Watson for leadership and to show him around Cleveland. What could go wrong there?

 

[--CyBear--]

You know what you know and you don’t know what you don’t know. Too bad you don’t know thousands of times more than what you know here.

I would hope we all know at least 1000 times more than what we know here, whatever that means.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

In some important respects yes. I think his skillset translates to the NFL better than Manziel's did. But in some ways both are similar. Having said that I don't think the reason why Johnny Manziel failed in the NFL was because he wasn't talented enough to succeed. Manziel's problems were between the ears, not in his skillset.

You're probably very alone in the thought that Sheduer is a better, or even comparable, athlete than Manziel.

 

[iueyedoc]

You know what you know and you don’t know what you don’t know. Too bad you don’t know thousands of times more than what you know here.

Sooooo, you have zero other examples and are defaulting to word salad mode. Got it