Of all the Beatles facts, this one still astounds me...

[HeHateMe]

Your use of absolute is laughable. No producer had this kid of control on a Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin or Neil Young album. The bands made those decisions and the producer had minimal input

All producers follow exactly the same criteria for producing an album if they are given producer credit for the album. Very rigid guidelines are followed. It's like you don't know anything about recording music professionally when you post stuff like this.

 

[Nail Polish]

All producers follow exactly the same criteria for producing an album if they are given producer credit for the album. Very rigid guidelines are followed. It's like you don't know anything about recording music professionally when you post stuff like this.

Actually, that's not true..Like movie directors, record producers each have their own style. They all try and work with the musicians to make a better recording. If a musician comes up with a good idea, a quality producer will listen and then decide if he will use it or not. However, If the producer has brought in a saxophone player to play a solo in the middle of a song, and the band leader wants a guitar solo. There will be a sax solo in that song...record producers are very powerful men in the industry..They call the shots, and are responsible for a quality recording

The inmates do not run the asylum in the record business...The record company does..

In fact, the musicians have to repay the record company for their recording time

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Correct...Which is why the artist shouldn't be praised for something he had little if any input on,as you did with the Beatles

Horseshit. Nowadays, sure you win that argument in most cases. In the 60s no. Even in the 80 and 90s some of the best albums of those eras were recorded in garages or apartments.

There is sound engineering in live performances (where a band really wins me over) but 80% of that is from the musicians the rest is acoustics / audio engineering.

 

[HeHateMe]

Horseshit. Nowadays, sure you win that argument in most cases. In the 60s no. Even in the 80 and 90s some of the best albums of those eras were recorded in garages or apartments.

There is sound engineering in live performances (where a band really wins me over) but 80% of that is from the musicians the rest is acoustics / audio engineering.

Until you produce a wikipedia link to substantiate your claims, I think you need to calm down with the "horseshit" accusations.

 

[Icculus]

John and Yoko jammed with Zappa and the Mothers of Invention who had the Turtles' lead singers aka Flo and Eddie at the time. The results are on Playground Psychotics. It's pretty far out for rock. Also, as far as rock debates go the only correct answer is Iron Maiden.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

John and Yoko jammed with Zappa and the Mothers of Invention who had the Turtles' lead singers aka Flo and Eddie at the time. The results are on Playground Psychotics. It's pretty far out for rock. Also, as far as rock debates go the only correct answer is Iron Maiden.

There is a recent documentary of Iron Maiden's latest? tour (South America I think) and man, Bruce Dickinson sounds amazing still.

 

[KittiesKorner]

I went to high school with a bass genius who people called the next Jaco Pistorius. I already happened to think Jaco Pistorius was a dick. So I thought this guy was a dick. I never liked Rush and Geddy Lee didn't help. I didn't like Winger, and I thought Primus, while technically proficient, were choads.

I think all this stems from my young appreciation for but not visceral enjoyment of Paul McCartney's oeuvre. There's something soulless about it.

 

[botfly10]

Why, because I dislike a band that has too simple lyrics that was beloved by teenage girls? Right.

no, cause you attempt to criticize art without appreciating context. Its like popping in citizen cane right now and being like, what the **** is the big deal? Not even color. This sucks.

 

[Nail Polish]

Horseshit. Nowadays, sure you win that argument in most cases. In the 60s no. Even in the 80 and 90s some of the best albums of those eras were recorded in garages or apartments.

There is sound engineering in live performances (where a band really wins me over) but 80% of that is from the musicians the rest is acoustics / audio engineering.

Any album that was recorded in a garage/basement would have been sent to the studio for mastering, and approval by the producer, BEFORE being released...Even then they weren't as clean as a studio recorded album

Today live CD's are much better, but that's because of the audio equipment on site. The band just plays, and the sound man and engineer level everything out

That's why when you play live, they want a stage plot of your band. That way they know where to place mikes, what will go directly into the sound board, how many mikes on the drummer etc

The simple fact is..Any technological advances on Beatles albums were due to Martin and the Engineers..Not the Beatles. They were great musicians, but in the studio they were outranked by what Martin wanted. They even had to audition for him before he agreed to take em on..

I have a studio version of "I feel fine" before it was mastered and edited..You would think it was done by 8th graders

 

[KittiesKorner]

I went to high school with a bass genius who people called the next Jaco Pistorius. I already happened to think Jaco Pistorius was a dick. So I thought this guy was a dick. I never liked Rush and Geddy Lee didn't help. I didn't like Winger, and I thought Primus, while technically proficient, were choads.

I think all this stems from my young appreciation for but not visceral enjoyment of Paul McCartney's oeuvre. There's something soulless about it.

I would like to expand on this. LOL! mccartney is a genius of pop. He is, or was, inimitable in terms of crafting melody. But it always rang hollow. The same way a technical virtuoso can wow you on an instrument but it leaves you feeling the same way as if you just watched someone perform a magic trick. soulless. lennon seemed a little more soulful but give me rolling stones any day.

I'm not trying to be manichean here but seeing paul mccartney on that snl special (and knowing how much he fucks up soldier field with his concerts) just reinforced my hatred of the false modest smug-ass bass player genius ******. you know he thinks "if john never died, I wouldn't have to marry a one-legged model for her money and would be a legacy myself"

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

I went to high school with a bass genius who people called the next Jaco Pistorius. I already happened to think Jaco Pistorius was a dick. So I thought this guy was a dick. I never liked Rush and Geddy Lee didn't help. I didn't like Winger, and I thought Primus, while technically proficient, were choads.

I think all this stems from my young appreciation for but not visceral enjoyment of Paul McCartney's oeuvre. There's something soulless about it.

I don't know how you can call Rush soulless. Holy shit man, have you ever seen them live? They are incredible musicians.

 

[Nail Polish]

I would like to expand on this. LOL! mccartney is a genius of pop. He is, or was, inimitable in terms of crafting melody. But it always rang hollow. The same way a technical virtuoso can wow you on an instrument but it leaves you feeling the same way as if you just watched someone perform a magic trick. soulless. lennon seemed a little more soulful but give me rolling stones any day.

I'm not trying to be manichean here but seeing paul mccartney on that snl special (and knowing how much he fucks up soldier field with his concerts) just reinforced my hatred of the false modest smug-ass bass player genius ******. you know he thinks "if john never died, I wouldn't have to marry a one-legged model for her money and would be a legacy myself"

I didn't care for his SB performance either

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Primus I admit is an acquired taste but one of the best concerts I have ever seen was a Rush/Primus show. It. was. awesome.

 

[Nail Polish]

ELO and Steely Dan were the best live bands I ever heard. But I'd bet the Eagles would be up there as well. But I never heard em live

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Any album that was recorded in a garage/basement would have been sent to the studio for mastering, and approval by the producer, BEFORE being released...Even then they weren't as clean as a studio recorded album

Today live CD's are much better, but that's because of the audio equipment on site. The band just plays, and the sound man and engineer level everything out

That's why when you play live, they want a stage plot of your band. That way they know where to place mikes, what will go directly into the sound board, how many mikes on the drummer etc

The simple fact is..Any technological advances on Beatles albums were due to Martin and the Engineers..Not the Beatles. They were great musicians, but in the studio they were outranked by what Martin wanted. They even had to audition for him before he agreed to take em on..

I have a studio version of "I feel fine" before it was mastered and edited..You would think it was done by 8th graders

Yes and a producer can ruin a great band ala Bob Rock. He ruined Metallica and RATM by over producing them. So you're telling me rock icon like Elton John isn't going to have 100% control over his music? Horseshit! Ray Charles left his label for that very reason!

Wait. the band just plays? LOL seriously?

 

[Nail Polish]

Yes and a producer can ruin a great band ala Bob Rock. He ruined Metallica and RATM by over producing them. So you're telling me rock icon like Elton John isn't going to have 100% control over his music? Horseshit! Ray Charles left his label for that very reason!

Many high end artists leave their label for that very reason. Thats why many of them stick with their producer once they find a guy they like.

Plus, I dont know what arrangement EJ had in his contract so I can't comment..Maybe he produced his own music..But in the case of the Beatles (which is my point) we know they had a producer.. And believe me,the producer is the boss. Especially in the case of George Martin. Not to say they didn't have input...As long as he agreed with it

 

[Omeletpants]

McCartney is the closest thing the modern music world has to Mozart. I can't think of a more beautiful song than "here, there and everywhere" or more revolutionary song than Elinor Rigby. Maybe I'm Amazed is genius. Is there a greater album opener than "I saw her standing there"? The guy was the soul of the Beatles and it's glue. Without him Lennon never would have gotten out of bed.

It's poignant to understand that virtually every great artist after them gives the Beatles credit for their inspiration. Jimi Hendricks was playing the entire Sgt Peppers album live 3 days after it was released.

 

[Nail Polish]

He and lennon were great song writers...no argument here

 

[KittiesKorner]

McCartney is the closest thing the modern music world has to Mozart. I can't think of a more beautiful song than "here, there and everywhere" or more revolutionary song than Elinor Rigby. Maybe I'm Amazed is genius. The guy was the soul of the Beatles and it's glue. Without him Lennon never would have gotten out of bed.

It's poignant to understand that virtually every great artist after them gives the Beatles credit for their inspiration. Jimi Hendricks was playing the entire Sgt Peppers album live 3 days after it was released.

I think what you don't get is that the best songwriter isn't always the best musician.

To Ryan: As a guitarist growing up, everyone told me to study Alex Lifesson. I found David Byrne/jerry richardson, jimmy Page, Johnny Marr, Joey Santiago and even Keith Rivhards's playing to have more soul and fun to play over technical prowess.

 

[Omeletpants]

I think what you don't get is that the best songwriter isn't always the best musician.

To Ryan: As a guitarist growing up, everyone told me to study Alex Lifesson. I found David Byrne/jerry richardson, jimmy Page, Johnny Marr, Joey Santiago and even Keith Rivhards's playing to have more soul and fun to play over technical prowess.

When did I ever say that best song write = best musician? McCartney has written some of the most soulful songs ever. He also happens to be one of the greatest bass players and a fine lead guitarist and fine drummer

Take a song like "and I love her".* Beautiful and soulful. A song people will be playing 300 years from now