Official NFL Draft Thread - Bear Fans Only - Loveland - Number 2 Scheme Fit

[BaBaBlacksheep]

You must have short arms!

My friends call me Rex.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

if Poles takes Shemar Stewart I am done on him. He already way overpaid for body type with lack of production, I dont need him to then double down on exact same guy just younger with even less production

Mykel williams is the same boat as Stewart for me. They are both bad pass rushers. Stewart isn't particularly good against the run either though

 

[sevvy]

I honestly don't think 1/4 or 3/4 of an inch will make a difference if you have great technique. If it was like THREE inches, maybe, seems like so many other variables could make that tiny fraction unimportant.

That's the hope. But like I said, history doesn't seem to be in his favor. And when you're talking about the #10 pick, and whether or not you've got your LT of the future, or your LG in a few years, Poles better be sure about Campbell.

 

[sevvy]

I’m so f’n sick of the arm length discussion every single year

There is merit to it, though. If a defensive lineman gets into the chest of a Tackle too easily, that's very bad. A lot of that has to do with a motherfucker's T-Rex arms.

I'm in the camp of, "Short arms bad, but if you're sure about the guy, take him." But if it turns out that he can't play Tackle, and Kelvin Banks can(even though his arms are considered short, too lol), that's a pretty big ****-up.

 

[DefNextYear]

That’s why I’d love to see them walk away with Banks Jr., Campbell, or Membou. All three of those guys can be viewed in a similar fashion in relationship to the Bears.

I would be happy with any of those choices. It's not the sexy pick by any means, but right now we just need guys who have a solid shot of being Bears for a decade. Since we have all pro caliber guys with Thuney and Jarrett, I'd love new guys at those positions to absorb everything they possibly can about being a professional and make for a smooth transition when they go.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

I would be happy with any of those choices. It's not the sexy pick by any means, but right now we just need guys who have a solid shot of being Bears for a decade. Since we have all pro caliber guys with Thuney and Jarrett, I'd love new guys at those positions to absorb everything they possibly can about being a professional and make for a smooth transition when they go.

I really want Darius Alexander in rd 2 but assume with dexter and Jarrett they are more likely to target a NT type to rotate with billings in rd 2/3. I think Alexander has huge upside as an interior disruptor though.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

There is merit to it, though

No, there’s not.

If a defensive lineman gets into the chest of a Tackle too easily, that's very bad.

Even if the DL wins the hand fight he still has to get around or through the OL. Hands getting inside position, while nice—doesn’t quantify or equate to results if the OT anchors up and has good footwork. Yeah, the pundits and prognosticators who scream “arm length” this time of year conveniently forget this. They just want a reason to like or not like a guy for entertainment’s sake.

Otherwise, I’d love for you to explain how a guy with short arms like Joe Thomas is a HOF while the cavalcade of bums going back to John Tait with perfect arm length and measurables aren’t. Because this is the part where you size queens split hairs over 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch.

Maybe, just maybe, what makes a good, great, pro bowl, all pro, or HOF OT has absolutely nothing to do with arm length.

 

[DefNextYear]

I think you just said it here yourself..................The only we take at 10 that would easily win starter reps would be a RB. With a top 10 pick I would think the Bears will want to bring someone who can be plug and play, not a backup on the OL. At the very least on the defensive side that first round DT/DE if that is the choice would be a solid contributor to the rotation since Allen loves to use 6 or 7 defensive linemen.

Yea, but linemen on both sides of the ball can be slower to develop and make impact. A year sitting and developing isn't the end of the world. If you're forced to start a rookie LT, that rookie LT will likely be getting beat up unless he's a very elite talent.

I think this is a bit too much impatience to worry about just one year of sitting. We know we're likely going to need a LT next year. We know we're going to need to replace Thuney soon too. Taking a guy to develop for a year and step in and able to hit the ground running next year is important. Otherwise, we're going to be desperate to draft one next year and may need to really reach or even trade up to grab one who will actually be able to be effective immediately. To add to this, we know that our OL isn't the epitome of health and reliability historically. Ultimately, what we need to be sure is we pick the guy who will be a high level player for a longer time. If the guy starts sooner, but ultimately sucks, then the pick was a fail.

 

[HearshotKDS]

if Poles takes Shemar Stewart I am done on him. He already way overpaid for body type with lack of production, I dont need him to then double down on exact same guy just younger with even less production

That concerns me a lot as well, when you watch him his athleticism pops off the screen but hes not often in the right place at right time, and he clearly has almost 0 technique. Not everyone has a ton of sacks in college but Stewart doesnt have a lot of any stats - tackles, TFLs, sacks, QB hits, etc. byond pressures which is nebulous. Heres how he compares to another ugly duckling DE who blossomed in the pros and another project pick this draft:

Danielle Hunter

Mykel Williams


That doesnt mean Stewart cant develop into a good DE, he certainly has all the physical tools. But he needs so much work to be anything other than a big guy who runs into the backfield really fast but doesnt effect most plays.

 

[Katesboobsrgr8]

Nate Solder 35.5

Matt Light 33.5

Trent Brown 36

Sebatian Vollmer 33.25

Marcus Cannon 34

Isaiah Wynn (actually a G pretty bad at T) 33.4

Michael Onwenu 34.4


I think those are all the guys who were starters at T for NE from 2010 to 2022. Nick Kaczur did have shorter arms (32.9), he was the RT for a few years in the 00s. That is pretty in line with NFL average overall though.

I think of arm length as a sliding scale. The lower you get past about 33.5, the fewer you see until it basically goes to zero for good starting OTs around 32.75. There are guys who can play very well at 33, but lower than that it becomes very difficult because being able to get into a guys chest, to keep his hands off you, is really important to winning one on one battles. It's just like any other measurement or metric, there is a certain point it become tough to be good (just like quickness, bend, etc), but you have to take it into along with other traits. Arm length is just easier to measure than those other things.

What is Cambell's arm length measure?

 

[Katesboobsrgr8]

Yea, but linemen on both sides of the ball can be slower to develop and make impact. A year sitting and developing isn't the end of the world. If you're forced to start a rookie LT, that rookie LT will likely be getting beat up unless he's a very elite talent.

I think this is a bit too much impatience to worry about just one year of sitting. We know we're likely going to need a LT next year. We know we're going to need to replace Thuney soon too. Taking a guy to develop for a year and step in and able to hit the ground running next year is important. Otherwise, we're going to be desperate to draft one next year and may need to really reach or even trade up to grab one who will actually be able to be effective immediately. To add to this, we know that our OL isn't the epitome of health and reliability historically. Ultimately, what we need to be sure is we pick the guy who will be a high level player for a longer time. If the guy starts sooner, but ultimately sucks, then the pick was a fail.

I agree. In fact, I want to draft an offensive lineman in each of the first 3 rounds.

 

[dennehy]

What is Cambell's arm length measure?

32.6

 

[Nelly]

Yea, but linemen on both sides of the ball can be slower to develop and make impact. A year sitting and developing isn't the end of the world. If you're forced to start a rookie LT, that rookie LT will likely be getting beat up unless he's a very elite talent.

I think this is a bit too much impatience to worry about just one year of sitting. We know we're likely going to need a LT next year. We know we're going to need to replace Thuney soon too. Taking a guy to develop for a year and step in and able to hit the ground running next year is important. Otherwise, we're going to be desperate to draft one next year and may need to really reach or even trade up to grab one who will actually be able to be effective immediately. To add to this, we know that our OL isn't the epitome of health and reliability historically. Ultimately, what we need to be sure is we pick the guy who will be a high level player for a longer time. If the guy starts sooner, but ultimately sucks, then the pick was a fail.

Seems like Kelvin Banks is the right pick then (if you're dead set on O-line that is). He's known for his ability to pass protect and doesn't leave much to be desired as far as size and athleticism goes (8.25 RAS). He could also theoretically step in at guard in a pinch, be your swing tackle or possibly even start there. That's what's nice about what Poles has set himself up for. If Banks is the top rated player on your board then we're not so hard up for any other position that we can take him and be better off for it.

 

[Beast15]

Depending on how the board falls, I wouldn’t mind trading down and grabbing a Hampton before the broncos or someone else. Like the OL and DL in second round. Grab an extra pick and still find really good talent with the 2nd/3rd round picks. Of course there will be some that want to take the “elite” player at 10. I agree with that in a sense, but in this draft a trade down and extra pick kind of seems ok to me

 

[Nelly]

Depending on how the board falls, I wouldn’t mind trading down and grabbing a Hampton before the broncos or someone else. Like the OL and DL in second round. Grab an extra pick and still find really good talent with the 2nd/3rd round picks. Of course there will be some that want to take the “elite” player at 10. I agree with that in a sense, but in this draft a trade down and extra pick kind of seems ok to me

I suppose it depends on what you think about the players available at #10. I've heard plenty of people say that there's not a lot separating the guys from around our first pick to our second. If that's the case and you can snag another 2nd rounder for moving down, it might be a good idea.

 

[pseudonym]

There is merit to it, though. If a defensive lineman gets into the chest of a Tackle too easily, that's very bad. A lot of that has to do with a motherfucker's T-Rex arms.

I'm in the camp of, "Short arms bad, but if you're sure about the guy, take him." But if it turns out that he can't play Tackle, and Kelvin Banks can(even though his arms are considered short, too lol), that's a pretty big ****-up.

Right but what I'm saying is 1/4 of an inch won't make a difference. Speed of the rush, your jump off the hike, foot placement, weather, the move that's coming against you—I can't believe that 1/4 of an inch matter. I have a hard time believing a full inch matter. This isn't a guy at 6'6" holding the head of a 5'8" guy in his hand with the little dude swinging his arms unable to touch him.

Now Will Campbell is 6'5" (78 inches) so that means his arm span is probably the same. Looked it up, he's 77.18 inch wingspan. So he's .72 short of his wingspan being the same as his height. I'd be more concerned with him at 6'5" facing a guy who is taller, but who in the hell on the DE is going to be 6'6" or taller? I don't see anyone in this draft taller than Campbell. So just based on wingspan, most of the DEs he facing are going to be shorter or the same:

Carter 6'3"
Mykel 6'5"
Green 6'3"
Shemar 6'5"
Pearce 6'5"
Scourton 6'3"

So I'm not worried about Campbell. Now, if your LT was 6'2" I might be worried about those three inches, or if somebody has a freakishly long wingspan (tried to find numbers but couldn't).

 

[bearsfan1977]

I’m warming up more and more to the idea of Kenneth Grant. I think he will be every bit as good as Graham.

Huge, so obviously fills the NT role, but he’s incredibly quick for a man his size so there’s some pass rush upside.

Dexter, Billings, Jarrett and Grant is a very good DL rotation.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Depending on how the board falls, I wouldn’t mind trading down and grabbing a Hampton before the broncos or someone else. Like the OL and DL in second round. Grab an extra pick and still find really good talent with the 2nd/3rd round picks. Of course there will be some that want to take the “elite” player at 10. I agree with that in a sense, but in this draft a trade down and extra pick kind of seems ok to me

Nobody is going to trade up. If we are questioning if anyone we want will be there at 10, I can't imagine why someone would trade up

 

[DefNextYear]

Seems like Kelvin Banks is the right pick then (if you're dead set on O-line that is). He's known for his ability to pass protect and doesn't leave much to be desired as far as size and athleticism goes (8.25 RAS). He could also theoretically step in at guard in a pinch, be your swing tackle or possibly even start there. That's what's nice about what Poles has set himself up for. If Banks is the top rated player on your board then we're not so hard up for any other position that we can take him and be better off for it.

And to be clear, I'm not saying we absolutely need to get an OL at 10, but I just don't think we can eliminate the possibility. It'll all come down to who they like and how the pieces fall.

 

[DefNextYear]

I suppose it depends on what you think about the players available at #10. I've heard plenty of people say that there's not a lot separating the guys from around our first pick to our second. If that's the case and you can snag another 2nd rounder for moving down, it might be a good idea.

The problem is that, for that very reason, other teams will be much less likely to give up that kind of draft capital. Everyone is going to see it the same way unless there's someone particularly special available at 10. The only type of player who can really move the needle like that is probably a QB.