Official Offseason Thread - CUBS edition

[Captain Obvious]

That would be a waste of money..... we are not trying to win next year, we are planting seeds right now

I agree that we are not trying to win, but if we were, that'd be a good route to take, IMO.

 

[nwfisch]

So 3B options?

 

[dabynsky]

So 3B options?

They all suck... Are you ready for the Jeff Baker/Blake Dewitt experience?

 

[Captain Obvious]

They all suck... Are you ready for the Jeff Baker/Blake Dewitt experience?

At least they won't be lazy.

 

[Rice Cube]

They all suck... Are you ready for the Jeff Baker/Blake Dewitt experience?

I think they should actually non-tender Baker and try either DJ LeMahieu or Marquez Smith in that spot as the other half of the platoon.

 

[Jntg4]

Zambrano for 3B!

 

[nwfisch]

I don't care if a 20 under 500 team gets much worse. This Cubs team at the moment isn't close to contending.

Ramirez is a Cub legend. And the "Thessiah" as he's referred to on here, believes in paying players for future production, not past production.

If the Cubs can upgrade their pitching to the point where Zambrano is expendable, so be it.

If Fielder and Pujols leave the division, that may make the Cubs chances to win the division greater.

Hopefully Theo Epstein and the braintrust of the Cubs decide that building the roster of the Cubs to be the best roster possible, and not have to depend on luck and other teams failures to win.

Signing Aramis Ramirez to stopgap 3B isn't the worst thing the Cubs could do. However, there is a great risk in his bat, his only asset, declining rapidly.

 

[Jntg4]

I don't care if a 20 under 500 team gets much worse. This Cubs team at the moment isn't close to contending.

Ramirez is a Cub legend. And the "Thessiah" as he's referred to on here, believes in paying players for future production, not past production.

If the Cubs can upgrade their pitching to the point where Zambrano is expendable, so be it.

If Fielder and Pujols leave the division, that may make the Cubs chances to win the division greater.

Hopefully Theo Epstein and the braintrust of the Cubs decide that building the roster of the Cubs to be the best roster possible, and not have to depend on luck and other teams failures to win.

Signing Aramis Ramirez to stopgap 3B isn't the worst thing the Cubs could do. However, there is a great risk in his bat, his only asset, declining rapidly.

Draft picks FTW!!! :yeah:

Ramirez leaving gets us another, something we don't get often.

 

[Rice Cube]

I'm pretty sure the Cubs prefer the draft pick.

 

[Jntg4]

I'm pretty sure the Cubs prefer the draft pick.

:yeah:

 

[nwfisch]

"Thessiah" and the braintrust prefer draft picks over Aramis Ramirez.

How dare they, they should be burned at the stake, and fired immediately. Making the Cubs worse right now.

 

[Rice Cube]

Just one draft pick though. Aramis is only Type B.

 

[Jntg4]

Just one draft pick though. Aramis is only Type B.

When is the last time we got a supplemental draft pick? It has been a while, and I'll take it.

 

[dabynsky]

I think they should actually non-tender Baker and try either DJ LeMahieu or Marquez Smith in that spot as the other half of the platoon.

Why nontender Baker out of curiousity? He has value as a platoon bench guy, and it isn't like he is going to get a ton in arby if he makes it that far.

I don't care if a 20 under 500 team gets much worse. This Cubs team at the moment isn't close to contending.

Ramirez is a Cub legend. And the "Thessiah" as he's referred to on here, believes in paying players for future production, not past production.

If the Cubs can upgrade their pitching to the point where Zambrano is expendable, so be it.

If Fielder and Pujols leave the division, that may make the Cubs chances to win the division greater.

Hopefully Theo Epstein and the braintrust of the Cubs decide that building the roster of the Cubs to be the best roster possible, and not have to depend on luck and other teams failures to win.

Signing Aramis Ramirez to stopgap 3B isn't the worst thing the Cubs could do. However, there is a great risk in his bat, his only asset, declining rapidly.

You are all over the place Fisch. You begin this rant by saying how it doesn't matter if 3B production drops on a team that needs offense because the Cubs won't contend, but midway through the post you talk about how the Cubs will be able to win the division easier if Pujols and Fielder leave. What does it matter if Pujols or Fielder are in the division if the Cubs are going to be terrible next year no matter what?

Theo is right about not paying players for their past production, and that is a strategy that likely would have made Hendry a better. And if the argument is that Ramirez is likely to be overpaid in a multiyear deal, fine I can buy that. However, the free agent and internal options to replace Ramirez's bat are beyond terrible.

I'm pretty sure the Cubs prefer the draft pick.

Again this is a good strategy, and I understand what Theo is doing by letting Ramirez walk. Lets just not trying to fit this into some Ramirez is a bad person/teammate/whatever, and that is what has prevented the Cubs from winning argument. I am okay with being bad the next couple of years if there is a concrete plan to build a contender. I disagree that it is the only way to build a contending team, but I can accept that if Thed Hoystein believe it is the best route.

 

[dabynsky]

"Thessiah" and the braintrust prefer draft picks over Aramis Ramirez.

How dare they, they should be burned at the stake, and fired immediately. Making the Cubs worse right now.

I don't have an issue with making the Cubs worse right now if by doing so makes the Cubs better in the long run. I have vehemently opposed the idea that all of these "intangibles" you and others have argued as the reason the Cubs have been bad recently.

 

[Rice Cube]

Baker might be due an arbitration raise, but you're right in that he's not going to make that much and it'd be chickenfeed to the Ricketts. Instead of non-tendering him maybe trade him for something prior to the exchange of arbitration numbers. Or maybe he could still be compensation for the Theo deal, who knows.

 

[nwfisch]

I don't have an issue with making the Cubs worse right now if by doing so makes the Cubs better in the long run. I have vehemently opposed the idea that all of these "intangibles" you and others have argued as the reason the Cubs have been bad recently.

That's what I've been saying, it does no good to keep an aging Ramirez, if the Cubs don't plan on contending.

There are intangible effects in sports, and whether or not you acknowledge they are there is completely up to you. You wanted to talk about the future, you keep drudging up the past.

To me, if Fielder and Pujols leave their respective teams, to the Cubs or another team outside the Central, it may increase the chances of the Cubs winning the Central from 1% to 2% :lol:

Improving pitching through the farm system hopefully is something the "College of GM's" want to accomplish relatively rapidly. Like others have mentioned, if signing Buherle or Jackson, while the Cubs aren't close to contending doesn't do much if any good.

 

[dabynsky]

That's what I've been saying, it does no good to keep an aging Ramirez, if the Cubs don't plan on contending.

You've said that which I can agree with that, but you've also made the argument that we shouldn't keep him based upon postseason performance, attitude, not showing up for the ASG, being a dog, etc. Any argument except what you just said in the quoted post I am going to argue.

There are intangible effects in sports, and whether or not you acknowledge they are there is completely up to you. You wanted to talk about the future, you keep drudging up the past.

Show me how Zambrano or Ramirez affected the production of other players on this team and you might have a point about intagibles in baseball.

Baseball is so different from the other major sports in this country it isn't even funny. Baseball is largely a game of individual acts masquerading as a team sport. While I agree it is better for a team to get along than not, it isn't necessary.

Okay you will have to show me where I am living in the past. I have said that this team is bad offensively and that removing arguably their best offensive player last season is going to make them even worse. I've said that they have no options internally or through free agency to replace the level of production in the next couple of seasons. If that is living in the past, I guess I am guilty. But I think I've considered the future when I've actually looked at the crap that is available to replace Ramirez.

To me, if Fielder and Pujols leave their respective teams, to the Cubs or another team outside the Central, it may increase the chances of the Cubs winning the Central from 1% to 2% :lol:

Then why waste time even mentioning it when your whole point apparently was how that production next year at the major league level is irrelevant.

Improving pitching through the farm system hopefully is something the "College of GM's" want to accomplish relatively rapidly. Like others have mentioned, if signing Buherle or Jackson, while the Cubs aren't close to contending doesn't do much if any good.

The problem is that improving solely through the farm is going to take more than a couple of seasons. The Cubs don't have the impact bats and arms within 3 years to make up for the holes on the roster. The only arms that we have that are even close to being top of the rotation of starter are at least 2 seasons away, and that is extremely optimistic outlook. I would love to turn back the clock a decade ago when we had guy after guy with TOR stuff, but that isn't the reality of the situation we are in.

 

[nwfisch]

You've said that which I can agree with that, but you've also made the argument that we shouldn't keep him based upon postseason performance, attitude, not showing up for the ASG, being a dog, etc. Any argument except what you just said in the quoted post I am going to argue.

Show me how Zambrano or Ramirez affected the production of other players on this team and you might have a point about intagibles in baseball.

See bottom

Baseball is so different from the other major sports in this country it isn't even funny. Baseball is largely a game of individual acts masquerading as a team sport. While I agree it is better for a team to get along than not, it isn't necessary.

Okay you will have to show me where I am living in the past. I have said that this team is bad offensively and that removing arguably their best offensive player last season is going to make them even worse. I've said that they have no options internally or through free agency to replace the level of production in the next couple of seasons. If that is living in the past, I guess I am guilty. But I think I've considered the future when I've actually looked at the crap that is available to replace Ramirez.

Then why waste time even mentioning it when your whole point apparently was how that production next year at the major league level is irrelevant.



Sorry I want to be right in this forum. It seems like only a few people who take advanced stats as gospel in here can be right.

The problem is that improving solely through the farm is going to take more than a couple of seasons. The Cubs don't have the impact bats and arms within 3 years to make up for the holes on the roster. The only arms that we have that are even close to being top of the rotation of starter are at least 2 seasons away, and that is extremely optimistic outlook. I would love to turn back the clock a decade ago when we had guy after guy with TOR stuff, but that isn't the reality of the situation we are in.

So you're saying there are no intangible effects? If that's the case, why doesn't the best team always win the World Series?



I never said Ramirez had a bad attiude,

At least Ramirez, who doesn't show fire and passion, still produces in the regular season regardless.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/387681-post159.html

 

[dabynsky]

So you're saying there are no intangible effects? If that's the case, why doesn't the best team always win the World Series?

Why do teams with less talent win any series against teams with more talent because it happens all the time in baseball? Because players get hot and cold throughout the season. If you want to call that an intangible, I suppose you are right.

And my god fisch anytime you are actually ask to provide empirical evidence for your opinions, do you have to resort to oh woe is me because I don't want to look at what evidence is available for us to analyze defense.