***OFFICIAL*** PICK THE BEST PLAYER IN THIS DRAFT

[JoJoBoxer]

What evidence have you given that JSN can't be Cooper Kupp or better? All you said was "it is ridiculous to think JSN could ever have a 1900 yard season."

Why? Can you tell me a single negative about JSN aside from his hamstring injury that would make me think he can't be the best player in this draft?

I didn't think it'd be this hard to sell the possibility that the best WR in a WR room consisting of Olave, Wilson, and Harrison Jr could go on to be the best player in the whole draft.

Ok, JSN might be the best player in this draft, but ...

If JSN can be better than Kupp (which you stated), he would have to have better stats than Kupp. @rawdawg showed that Kupp had a season where zero NFL receivers have had in NFL an season and only one receiver has had one stat and one receiver has had the other stat in NFL history. So he is saying that chances are very high that JSN will not have a season like Kupp.

Moreover; JSN had one amazing season as a WR, but that was as a #3 WR on a team with 2 NFL starters (star?) in front of him. So JSN is expected to do better than something that only Kupp has done, but without two star WRs to take the pressure off of him and also against NFL #1 CBs, not college #3 CBs? Probably not.

But that wasn't even @rawdawg's point. His point was that, even with amazing stats in a career, there are almost always players, usually QBs, that end up being the best player of a draft.

I have not looked up the career stats, but I would guess that only Rice and Moss would even have a chance of being the best players in their draft classes.

Edit:

Jerry Rice was the best in 1985, but Bruce Smith and Chris Doleman both made it to the Hall of Fame. Note that Jerry Rice wasn't even the best WR in his rookie year, losing the rookie of the year to Cincy WR Eddie Brown.

Randy Moss was not the best player of his class. Though he was part of 4 players drafted in the first round who became Hall of Famers, he was not better than Peyton Manning.

 

[The Doctor]

I'l stick to the chalk (one of two -- the other being Carter) and say Will Anderson.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

You just said "typically a QB is the best player in each draft". Well if that were the case considering QBs last 15 years in the league I'm just curious why over half the teams in the NFL don't have pro bowl QBs

Do you know how the pro bowl selection process works?

The Brady's of the world, deservedly, get chosen as a pro bowl QB and then it becomes nearly impossible for them to be dethroned. It becomes the "Usual Suspects" get the nod year after year.

 

[rawdawg]

You just said "typically a QB is the best player in each draft". Well if that were the case considering QBs last 15 years in the league I'm just curious why over half the teams in the NFL don't have pro bowl QBs

There's only 6 probowl QBs each year, not counting alternates, and the Pro Bowl generally is a joke as evidenced by Derek Carr and Tyler Huntley representing the AFC this year.

But anyway, you're also wrong about half the teams not having pro bowl QBs. If your standard is making the probowl, the following teams have pro bowl QBs.

Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, Titans, Jags, Colts (Ryan), Chargers, Chiefs, Broncos, Steelers (Trubisky went to a PB), Browns, Bengals, Ravens (have 2 w/ Huntley), Eagles, Cowboys, Vikings, Packers, Lions, Cardinals, Seahawks, Rams, and 49ers currently have pro bowl QBs on their roster. The Bucs' pro bowl QB just retired, and the Raiders had one up until about 4 hours ago. So, yeah that's 25 teams with pro bowl QBs.

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

Sorry guys let me rephrase to what you know I meant, all-pro level. Over half the nfl would have all pro level qbs if they are typically "the best players in the draft." Most important doesn't equate to best and unless you can somehow show me qbs end up being the best players in each draft despite a horrific need from over half the nfl for a great qb. That was my point but I see now that I should have been very specific.

Now @JoJoBoxer that means **** all. It's like me saying I know JSN will be that good because no other player has had 347 yards in a rose bowl. It doesn't work. Also you saying he was "number 3" tells me you don't understand what position he even played. He was primarily their slot guy and led the team in every stat but TDs by a wide margin. The idea he was somehow the third W= is just inaccurate.

 

[MDB111™]

Perhaps we could get back to the predictions? PTO please.

 

[bamainatlanta]

DT Dusty Dvoracek

 

[Montucky]

I think the point of a thread like this is to be bold and maybe more than a little unrealistic. If you would've heaped the sort of effusive praise on Justin Jefferson (or better yet Cooper Kupp himself) before the draft people would've called you dumb and crazy, but look how its turned out. Don't get too invested in collegiate players' profiles and stocks as prospects. The only thing you can ever expect out of the NFL draft is the unexpected.

Either way, my pick here is Devon Witherspoon. He’s the guy who seems to have what it takes to be really special. I also really believe in Darnell Wright to be an All-Pro tackle, but I think Witherspoon is a safer bet.

 

[Grape]

Ok, JSN might be the best player in this draft, but ...

If JSN can be better than Kupp (which you stated), he would have to have better stats than Kupp. @rawdawg showed that Kupp had a season where zero NFL receivers have had in NFL an season and only one receiver has had one stat and one receiver has had the other stat in NFL history. So he is saying that chances are very high that JSN will not have a season like Kupp.

Moreover; JSN had one amazing season as a WR, but that was as a #3 WR on a team with 2 NFL starters (star?) in front of him. So JSN is expected to do better than something that only Kupp has done, but without two star WRs to take the pressure off of him and also against NFL #1 CBs, not college #3 CBs? Probably not.

But that wasn't even @rawdawg's point. His point was that, even with amazing stats in a career, there are almost always players, usually QBs, that end up being the best player of a draft.

I have not looked up the career stats, but I would guess that only Rice and Moss would even have a chance of being the best players in their draft classes.

Edit:

Jerry Rice was the best in 1985, but Bruce Smith and Chris Doleman both made it to the Hall of Fame. Note that Jerry Rice wasn't even the best WR in his rookie year, losing the rookie of the year to Cincy WR Eddie Brown.

Randy Moss was not the best player of his class. Though he was part of 4 players drafted in the first round who became Hall of Famers, he was not better than Peyton Manning.

JSN was the go-to guy even with Olave and Wilson on the team. He had about as many yards as those two combined, so I can guarantee you he did not have "#3 CBs" on him.

And the ONE game he played without Wilson and Olave? 15 catches, 350 yards, 3 TDs.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Sorry guys let me rephrase to what you know I meant, all-pro level. Over half the nfl would have all pro level qbs if they are typically "the best players in the draft." Most important doesn't equate to best and unless you can somehow show me qbs end up being the best players in each draft despite a horrific need from over half the nfl for a great qb. That was my point but I see now that I should have been very specific.

Now @JoJoBoxer that means **** all. It's like me saying I know JSN will be that good because no other player has had 347 yards in a rose bowl. It doesn't work. Also you saying he was "number 3" tells me you don't understand what position he even played. He was primarily their slot guy and led the team in every stat but TDs by a wide margin. The idea he was somehow the third W= is just inaccurate.

Ok, all-pro makes your argument even worse. At least a Trubisky can become a pro-bowler if enough people decide not to play.

Let's just consider this year. Who was the best QB?

I would guess that you would say Mahomes. Now that means that players like Hurts and Burrows would probably not be the top QB, and certainly players like Geno Smith wouldn't.

Ok, one step down. All pro.

First team all pro QB would be Hurts in the NFC and Mahomes in the AFC. Chances are high that Mahomes would control the AFC first team all pro QB for years, if not decades to come.

Now let's dream that Fields becomes THE QB in the NFC. He would also control the first team QB spot in the NFC for decades.

Does that make Burrows, Hurts and a bunch of bum QBs? No, they could still be really good and not be as good as Mahomes. They could be the best players of their class, yet not be the best QBs in the NFL. That would be Mahomes.

Get it?


I am not saying that JSN was the third WR because he was playing the slot. I am saying that he was the #3 WR because he was not one of the top 2 receivers. That does not mean that I am saying that he was bad, rather that Garrett Wilson and Olave were better players and so got the top 2 spots, meaning they got covered by the top 2 CBs on the other team.

Just for you to understand, three of the top WRs in the last draft were Wilson, Olave and Jameson Williams. Williams had to transfer away from Ohio State to have a chance at becoming a top WR in the draft. So, JSN did quite well at Ohio State, when not injured.

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

Ok, all-pro makes your argument even worse. At least a Trubisky can become a pro-bowler if enough people decide not to play.

Let's just consider this year. Who was the best QB?

I would guess that you would say Mahomes. Now that means that players like Hurts and Burrows would probably not be the top QB, and certainly players like Geno Smith wouldn't.

Ok, one step down. All pro.

First team all pro QB would be Hurts in the NFC and Mahomes in the AFC. Chances are high that Mahomes would control the AFC first team all pro QB for years, if not decades to come.

Now let's dream that Fields becomes THE QB in the NFC. He would also control the first team QB spot in the NFC for decades.

Does that make Burrows, Hurts and a bunch of bum QBs? No, they could still be really good and not be as good as Mahomes. They could be the best players of their class, yet not be the best QBs in the NFL. That would be Mahomes.

Get it?


I am not saying that JSN was the third WR because he was playing the slot. I am saying that he was the #3 WR because he was not one of the top 2 receivers. That does not mean that I am saying that he was bad, rather that Garrett Wilson and Olave were better players and so got the top 2 spots, meaning they got covered by the top 2 CBs on the other team.

Just for you to understand, three of the top WRs in the last draft were Wilson, Olave and Jameson Williams. Williams had to transfer away from Ohio State to have a chance at becoming a top WR in the draft. So, JSN did quite well at Ohio State, when not injured.

So you're now saying that typically QBs are the best players drafted despite being the most valuable commodity? So the NFL has defied economics 101 here?

Secondly go watch ohio states tape from 2021 again you're just flatly wrong. There is a reason that wilson was saying JSN was the best WR of the three when they were all on the same college team. You guys are making arguments and I'm using the actual people you're actually talking abouts actual words versus your opinion on the matter. It's just off.

 

[hyatt151]

Devon Witherspoon

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

Devon Witherspoon

Now that's a spicy one. We are getting closer

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Perhaps we could get back to the predictions? PTO please.

Sorry about that. Because of this, I will make bold prediction that are not common.

I predict that Calijah Kancey:

1. will, if Anderson and Kancey play in a 4-3 defense and Kancey plays end on 1st and 2nd and 3T on passing downs, Kancey will have better stats than Anderson, besides sacks and he will be within 2 sacks of Anderson.
   1. I see Anderson being a better fit as an OLB in a 3-4 where he can use his lighter weight to be a speed rusher. Kancey has more bulk, yet he is extremely athletic.
2. will be the most impactful penetrating 3T from the 2023 draft. Note that this does not talk about run defense, just penetrating as a 3T or what the Bears need the most. Carter will be better all around.
   1. Kancey's style is attack the gap or attack the gap three gaps to the right or left with speed and power. Carter is more of a control the person in front and then use a swim move or such to beat him. By the time Carter makes his move, Kancey is already past his man.
   2. Though he is short, Kancey might be only one inch shorter and not that much lighter than Aaron Donald. The combine will be huge for him. Like almost every draft prospect, he can add weight during the offseason after his first year. Other players cannot get his penetration after their rookie seasons.

If you are going to make predictions, might as well be bold predictions.

 

[hyatt151]

Now that's a spicy one. We are getting closer

it worked for Sauce Gardner

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

JSN was the go-to guy even with Olave and Wilson on the team. He had about as many yards as those two combined, so I can guarantee you he did not have "#3 CBs" on him.

And the ONE game he played without Wilson and Olave? 15 catches, 350 yards, 3 TDs.

Finally someone who watched ohio state and actually understood what they were looking at. Salute!

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

it worked for Sauce Gardner

I was thinking earlier what's the talent difference and tape difference between those two as consensus number one cbs

 

[knoxville7]

if I had to hitch myself to 1 guy to be the best from this draft class, I’d prolly have to say CJ Stroud with Jalen Carter getting an honorable mention

 

[clenbuterol_clint]

if I had to hitch myself to 1 guy to be the best from this draft class, I’d prolly have to say CJ Stroud with Jalen Carter getting an honorable mention

Now there's a risky one. Does he end up humbled by spending the meat of his career with the best WR crew of all time or does he turn out to be the absolute freak that got him the starting job in the first place?

 

[knoxville7]

Now there's a risky one. Does he end up humbled by spending the meat of his career with the best WR crew of all time or does he turn out to be the absolute freak that got him the starting job in the first place?

Stroud to me seems like a much more polished version of trey lance lol