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all things prince thread here
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Nothing to apologize for Rice. Just was a momentary venting of the slight frustration it caused. Nothing more.
Back to Fielder, it would cost the Cubs draft picks to sign him clearly which is an issue. However, the ability to land a premier offensive talent at his age doesn't often happen in free agency. The lineup actually would look pretty decent I would think with something like DeJesus, Castro, Fielder, Soto, Bryd, Stewart, Soriano (replaced by BJax eventually), Barney. The lineup would actually have more than 2 guys that are willing to take more than 1 strike in an at bat.
Back to Fielder, it would cost the Cubs draft picks to sign him clearly which is an issue. However, the ability to land a premier offensive talent at his age doesn't often happen in free agency. The lineup actually would look pretty decent I would think with something like DeJesus, Castro, Fielder, Soto, Bryd, Stewart, Soriano (replaced by BJax eventually), Barney. The lineup would actually have more than 2 guys that are willing to take more than 1 strike in an at bat.
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I am curious as to what you had to say though, if you don't mind.
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Pretty much had the gist of it above in my edit. More of it was directed to Lex L who made a minor mistake which he is probably aware of in stating that Fielder wouldn't cost a draft pick, and a discussion of the Theo quote about 2 draft picks that he is fond of saying.
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I will agree with that, and the offensive production at the beginning of Fielder's hypothetical contract would probably more than make up for the last second-round pick. I think the discussion before was how much monetary value the Cubs will put on Fielder's production, and how much would be considered an "overpay".
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This is what I would offer Prine Fielder... 6 years/160 million, with a no-trade cause and a club option for the 7th year worth 30 million. Also, an opt out cause after the 3rd year, plus incentives.
This will not hurt the Cubs at all..
2012-2017- 26.6 million annually.
This will not hurt the Cubs at all..
2012-2017- 26.6 million annually.
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I like the concept, and Boras has been known to be all about the total value of the package including options so I think that might be an interesting option. No one that Boras or Fielder go with an opt out for the Cubs after 3 years though.
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Maybe not have the opt out cause after the 3rd year, but in the deal.
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I really don't think you are going to be able to get any kind of opt clause at least not one for the Cubs side. The most likely option closest to what you are suggesting would be to get him at 6 years with some club or mutual option years with a rather hefty buyout for turning them down.
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I saw that Boras could be looking for an opt out cause., that's why I put it in the deal.
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My favorite teams
I think he meant an opt out clause on Fielder's side, not the club's.
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CC and A-Rod had opt-outs in theirs which allowed the Yankees to restructure the deals.
In Fielder's case, the player opt-out gives the Cubs a chance to escape the tail end of the contract if they realize that Fielder might not project very well and allow some other team to assume the risk.
I wouldn't pay Fielder more annual average salary than Pujols or even Ryan Howard though.
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I don't see then hoow that limits the Cubs risk then.
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There are two things that could happen...
1. Cubs risk is eliminated if Fielder opts out and signs elsewhere as outlined previously.
2. Cubs risk increases, but it's a calculated risk with good reward, if Fielder opts out and re-signs with the team at a higher salary/restructured deal.
The opt-out creates options. If Fielder plays at an elite level, #1 may help the Cubs clear out salary space for some other pieces as there is more than one way to build a contender. #2 may help the Cubs long-term because they've kept an elite talent albeit at a higher salary.
Dabynsky's idea of the options tacked at the end also makes sense because Fielder (and any baseball player, really) will always want to produce as best as he can to guarantee that those options either vest or are picked up anyway.
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I suppose I can see that it limits the risk in the case of number 1, but it seems like if he starts to break down then he doesn't opt out. And if he is still going strong then he opts out and gets a bigger deal for even riskier years going forward. I guess my question would be, and I don't know what the answer would be but, would the Cubs have the option of offering arbitration to net compensation picks in an opt out scenario?
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My question is this -- as good as Prince Fielder is offensively, is him being our prized addition this year truly going to make that much better in 2012? Obviously, he's an immense offensive talent. He creates runs, has a high WPA and WAR and by all accounts, seems like a good teammate. The addition of Sveum is our manager only helps our cause. I'm sure it'd be a safe assumption that one of the goals with hiring him would be for us to get the inside track on Fielder (and maybe K-Rod, too?)
That being said, I still go back to our current lineup around him. Without Ramirez, who'll protect Fielder (or any perennial slugger, for that matter)? Fielder had Braun, as well as other solid pieces around him in Corey Hart, Rickie Weeks, etc, in Milwaukee. It scares me a little that without the protection, and the fact that Wrigley is a bit less hitter friendly, Fielder's numbers could dip a bit and fans could grow impatient. He's obviously going to be getting a deal around $200 million, so anything less than MVP numbers will be considered a disappointment.
Obviously, he'd help the team out. When's the last time we had a power threat from the left side of the plate? Leon Durham? Fred McGriff in '02? With Fielder coming from a team that was in line to compete right now, I think he'd be hesitant to come to the North Side without a few other players signing up first. Don't get me wrong, I love the DeJesus signing and think Stewart could also benefit from a change of scenery, but those two guys surely aren't the moves needed to push us over the top.
That being said, I still go back to our current lineup around him. Without Ramirez, who'll protect Fielder (or any perennial slugger, for that matter)? Fielder had Braun, as well as other solid pieces around him in Corey Hart, Rickie Weeks, etc, in Milwaukee. It scares me a little that without the protection, and the fact that Wrigley is a bit less hitter friendly, Fielder's numbers could dip a bit and fans could grow impatient. He's obviously going to be getting a deal around $200 million, so anything less than MVP numbers will be considered a disappointment.
Obviously, he'd help the team out. When's the last time we had a power threat from the left side of the plate? Leon Durham? Fred McGriff in '02? With Fielder coming from a team that was in line to compete right now, I think he'd be hesitant to come to the North Side without a few other players signing up first. Don't get me wrong, I love the DeJesus signing and think Stewart could also benefit from a change of scenery, but those two guys surely aren't the moves needed to push us over the top.
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I think if he bothers to opt out then the Cubs offer him arb if they don't want him back and just extend him to a restructured deal if they do want him back. Either way, both parties would win.
Here's another viewpoint that is about in line with my original guesstimate of what Fielder is worth:
How much is Prince Fielder worth?
Here's another viewpoint that is about in line with my original guesstimate of what Fielder is worth:
How much is Prince Fielder worth?
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thats a lot of gray and a lot of predicting.
the point is, the cubs would not be that much better adding fielder, in no way shape or form does fielder make the team a contender for the division let alone a long playoff run with the current roster.
again lets say that soriano is dealt.
lost the following:
soriano
aram
dome
pena
add:
fielder
say rumors are true about garza being on the block. the SP would be mediocre at best.
Its a disaster waiting to happen, just like the soriano deal. but like i said before, if you are in it for that excitement that the cubs made that big splash than fielder is your guy.
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I think you've touched on the other part of why it's not necessarily a good idea to blow a bunch of money on Prince Fielder. But the value projection is useful because it tells you how much of a window of opportunity you have with Fielder, so while they might not contend in 2012, if the Cubs can dive into the pool of free agents available for 2013, he might still be useful.
The post I linked to is just saying how much Fielder himself might be worth, and going too much over that amount is likely an overpay. There are naturally lots of ifs and gray areas but I thought the logic was fine regardless of who is protecting Fielder in the lineup.
The post I linked to is just saying how much Fielder himself might be worth, and going too much over that amount is likely an overpay. There are naturally lots of ifs and gray areas but I thought the logic was fine regardless of who is protecting Fielder in the lineup.
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