Offseason discussion/rumors

chibears55

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If I was the Cards..Q.. wow I would do it. Wainwright is 35. Martinez is pretty legit. Reyes would be a strong 3 looking ahead. At that point you are looking at 2 innings eaters that can push a 4.0 FIP and field a plus D.

It makes too much sense IMO. That is if they have the talent to make that deal. (I wouldn't trade Reyes or Martinez but the rest like Piscotty would be on the table)
I'd be surprise if Cardinals attempt to make this trade...

Type of move that could wipe their system out of their top players and without having their top 2 picks this year, it could set them back a few years.

I think the Cards will wait and see where their at and what available come deadline.

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beckdawg

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If I was the Cards..Q.. wow I would do it. Wainwright is 35. Martinez is pretty legit. Reyes would be a strong 3 looking ahead. At that point you are looking at 2 innings eaters that can push a 4.0 FIP and field a plus D.

It makes too much sense IMO. That is if they have the talent to make that deal. (I wouldn't trade Reyes or Martinez but the rest like Piscotty would be on the table)

Cards don't have thee ammo to make it happen. Reyes was their only blue chip prospect. Weaver is a decent prospect at #68 on mlb.com's but not a star. Carson Kelly came in at #39. Solid C prospect but just an average bat. Those two aren't going to move the needle when the sox have apparently already asked for Francis Marte(#20), Joe Musgrove and Kyle Tucker(#35)
 

brett05

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The irony is that without Reyes the Cards don't have the prospects y'all would want for Quintana and they don't have the salary space for Shields. Wacha had been expected to be in the pen but clearly he starts now. I'd also expect Rosenthal to be stretched out in ST to compete for a starting slot.

Shields salary is quite small actually.

And you are right, they might not have what it takes to land Q
 

TL1961

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If I was the Cards..Q.. wow I would do it. Wainwright is 35. Martinez is pretty legit. Reyes would be a strong 3 looking ahead. At that point you are looking at 2 innings eaters that can push a 4.0 FIP and field a plus D.

It makes too much sense IMO. That is if they have the talent to make that deal. (I wouldn't trade Reyes or Martinez but the rest like Piscotty would be on the table)

I believe Reyes is their best pitcher. Some talk that he was to be in BP this year before the TJ news. No way. That was to protect egos before Spring training proved he should start. Devastating curve snd 102 fastball.
 

TL1961

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I'd be surprise if Cardinals attempt to make this trade...

Type of move that could wipe their system out of their top players and without having their top 2 picks this year, it could set them back a few years.

I think the Cards will wait and see where their at and what available come deadline.

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As I stated, I think Reyes was going to be their best SP. But I am not writing them off so quickly. They will break camp with Martinez, Wainwright, Lynn, Leake and Wacha.

Hopefully 2016 Wacha. But my cards fan friend (naturally) claims Wacha's fall off was due to injury, and now he's healed.
 

TC in Mississippi

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I believe Reyes is their best pitcher. Some talk that he was to be in BP this year before the TJ news. No way. That was to protect egos before Spring training proved he should start. Devastating curve snd 102 fastball.

To me there is no question that before the injury Reyes was their best pitcher. He had future ace written all over him but guys come back from TJ differently so there uncertainty now. Martinez is a very, very good pitcher but I don't think he's going to be an ace or #1 on a championship team, more likely a 2.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Shields salary is quite small actually.

And you are right, they might not have what it takes to land Q

Numerous reports say they're pretty far over budget already. I realize the Padres are paying most of his salary but I still don't think they could bring on that money just for the hope of a WC berth. Seems foolish.
 

brett05

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Numerous reports say they're pretty far over budget already. I realize the Padres are paying most of his salary but I still don't think they could bring on that money just for the hope of a WC berth. Seems foolish.

The foolish part isn't the cash..It's that he sucks. I whiffed big time on that one.
 

SilenceS

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Cubs' Javier Baez: Could earn full-time job at second
by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Baez could become the full-time starter at second to start the season or sometime during the year, The Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Baez's versatility in 2016 was a big boon for the Cubs, but second base is his best position, and it's possible he becomes an everyday player there sometime in 2017. "Obviously, when I get my years in the big leagues, I want to have my own spot," Baez said. Ben Zobrist is in the mix at second as well, but he'll likely spend time platooning with Kyle Schwarber in left field.
 

brett05

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Cubs' Javier Baez: Could earn full-time job at second
by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Baez could become the full-time starter at second to start the season or sometime during the year, The Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Baez's versatility in 2016 was a big boon for the Cubs, but second base is his best position, and it's possible he becomes an everyday player there sometime in 2017. "Obviously, when I get my years in the big leagues, I want to have my own spot," Baez said. Ben Zobrist is in the mix at second as well, but he'll likely spend time platooning with Kyle Schwarber in left field.
Ah that time of the year when we are close to baseball but have nothing to say so we tell folks that "the sky is blue"
 

Diehardfan

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Barring injury.....the only "regulars" in the Cub lineup are Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Heyward(if he transforms back into pre-2016 Heyward) and Contreras. Much like last year which Maddon used his many "interchangeable parts" liberally....everyone plays at one time or another. I like that. Keeps everyone in the game mentally and makes the players all feel like they are needed.
 

beckdawg

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Cubs' Javier Baez: Could earn full-time job at second
by RotoWire Staff | RotoWire

Baez could become the full-time starter at second to start the season or sometime during the year, The Chicago Sun-Times reports.

Baez's versatility in 2016 was a big boon for the Cubs, but second base is his best position, and it's possible he becomes an everyday player there sometime in 2017. "Obviously, when I get my years in the big leagues, I want to have my own spot," Baez said. Ben Zobrist is in the mix at second as well, but he'll likely spend time platooning with Kyle Schwarber in left field.

Thought this was more or less a given though "full time" on the cubs isn't "full time" in the traditional sense. I'd imagine he'll see 400-500 PAs maybe more if he plays well.
 

CSF77

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Thought this was more or less a given though "full time" on the cubs isn't "full time" in the traditional sense. I'd imagine he'll see 400-500 PAs maybe more if he plays well.

Every position avg's around 650 PA's per year. So in theory with LF and 2B in a 3 man rotation each would see 433 PA's just in a RAW setting. Then you give Bryant his 7 days off like he had last year. 28 PA's opened up. Then Russell with his 11 games off. 44 PA's. 72 more PA's. 1B Rizzo got 7 days off and you expect those AB's given to one of Bryant, Baez or Schwarber. So that puts it at 100 PA's total extra. Or a AVG of 466 each if everything balances out.

My opinion is something is going to have to give in as the season goes on. All 3 are just too good to be getting their PA's cut that hard. They are all 200 below a full 162 game season season avg. on RAW starts alone they would be avg 116.5 starts each.

I get it having too much depth is a good thing but having lower production getting potential PA's that could have been going to these 3 is questionable.
 

chibears55

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Zobrist going to be 36 this season, he was looking for extra time off last year...

I'll bet the farm that we will see these guys start the majority of games and Zobrist will go back to being a super utility player (barring injuries and a baez slump).

Cubs everyday players...
Contreras
Rizzo
Baez
Russell
Bryant
Schwarber
Almora and or Jay
Heyward

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beckdawg

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Every position avg's around 650 PA's per year. So in theory with LF and 2B in a 3 man rotation each would see 433 PA's just in a RAW setting. Then you give Bryant his 7 days off like he had last year. 28 PA's opened up. Then Russell with his 11 games off. 44 PA's. 72 more PA's. 1B Rizzo got 7 days off and you expect those AB's given to one of Bryant, Baez or Schwarber. So that puts it at 100 PA's total extra. Or a AVG of 466 each if everything balances out.

My opinion is something is going to have to give in as the season goes on. All 3 are just too good to be getting their PA's cut that hard. They are all 200 below a full 162 game season season avg. on RAW starts alone they would be avg 116.5 starts each.

I get it having too much depth is a good thing but having lower production getting potential PA's that could have been going to these 3 is questionable.

Why does something have to give? If the cubs are winning like they should then certainly they can get away with lessening the load on their players to keep them fresh for the post season. I mean look at their bench. It's not even that bad if you start Jay and Almora some days. If Rizzo and Bryant play you still got a decent shot to win that day and you can easily rest Schwarber or Heyward.
 

CSF77

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Why does something have to give? If the cubs are winning like they should then certainly they can get away with lessening the load on their players to keep them fresh for the post season. I mean look at their bench. It's not even that bad if you start Jay and Almora some days. If Rizzo and Bryant play you still got a decent shot to win that day and you can easily rest Schwarber or Heyward.

If Schwarber is putting up .300/.400/.600, Zobrist .280/.380/.540, Baez .280/.320/.560 then Almora is doing .280/.320/.425 how do you justify it outside of day off depth to f tightening up the D late inning?
 

beckdawg

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If Schwarber is putting up .300/.400/.600, Zobrist .280/.380/.540, Baez .280/.320/.560 then Almora is doing .280/.320/.425 how do you justify it outside of day off depth to f tightening up the D late inning?

The same way they justify using a 6 man rotation or benching starters on sundays like maddon did last year. If the cubs get out to a huge lead in the division like they did last year then there is no reason to press to win 105-110 games. Obviously you always want to win but keeping everyone fresh isn't going to be that hard when you're running a 4 man bench one of which is a back up catcher. You can literally get the other 3 work and really not impact the line up much if at all. If we assume the 3 bench guys are Jay, La Stella and Baez(sorta as he'll play a fair bit more than a bench guy) then it's not difficult at all to find ways to get them on the field. Rizzo doesn't have to play 155 games like he did last year. When he sits you can move Baez or Bryant to 3B freeing up 2B.

If you sit a respective starter 1 day a week that's around 20-25 games over the course of a season they don't have to play. And of course that assumes no injuries. You don't even have to bench all the starters the same day. Is the team really going to suffer that much sitting one of Schwarber, Rizzo and Bryant once or twice a week? They played an entire season without Schwarber last year and won 103 games. La Stella hit .270/.357/.405 this past season. Jay is a career .287/.352/.384 hitter. Baez's offensive upside is obvious. In other words, you're not exactly plugging in Darwin Barney here. This is a strong bench.

Look at how the team played leading up to the all-star break. A lot of doom and gloom was spouted here about that time but the main reason for the slide was they played something like 20-30 games straight with no days off. That's how being worn down effects a team. And the added benefit of playing your bench in this manner is they get into a routine and don't get rusty on the bench. So, if you have someone go down to a short term injury they can easily come in ready and in theory wont slump horribly as they adjust to a more prominent role.
 

CSF77

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But it comes down to 115 games for all 3 guys.

Ok I get giving Schwarber a day off here and there to keep his knee's together. I get sitting Baez vs some RHP that have owned him. I get how Zo is getting older. But not 200 PA less action each.

I'm thinking 145 starts each myself. That means Zo in RF and Heyward in CF a good chunk.

Unless Almora just flat out puts up rookie of the year production. Which he could. Jay.... if he is out preforming Almora then they need to keep Almora in AAA and make Jay the 4th
 

beckdawg

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But it comes down to 115 games for all 3 guys.

Ok I get giving Schwarber a day off here and there to keep his knee's together. I get sitting Baez vs some RHP that have owned him. I get how Zo is getting older. But not 200 PA less action each.

I'm thinking 145 starts each myself. That means Zo in RF and Heyward in CF a good chunk.

Unless Almora just flat out puts up rookie of the year production. Which he could. Jay.... if he is out preforming Almora then they need to keep Almora in AAA and make Jay the 4th

The cubs had 6 players last year play 140+ games and they were fairly healthy as a team. It's not that hard to get 12 guys 500ish PAs(assuming health). As a team excluding the pitcher spot, the cubs had 5935 PAs last year from 20 players. Even if you assume their 8 "starters" get 600 PAs(only 3 cubs had 600+ PAs last year) that still leaves around 1200 or so PAs for your bench. Now do you really have to give Tommy La Stella 400 PAs? Not really but that's not really my point. My point is you can easily give 8-10 guys 400-500 PAs. Obviously you probably want Bryant and Rizzo closer to 600 but even if you assume everyone stays healthy it's not that hard to find PAs for Almora and Baez.

And regardless my point still stands about keeping people fresh. Zobrist played 147 games and took 631 PAs last season. He'll be 36 near the start of next season. He doesn't really need to play 150 games for the cubs to make the playoffs. What you want is him fresh at the end of the season rather than to wear down. And by playing the younger guys slightly more you give them experience you're going to want in the playoffs where pinch hits matter. And even talking about the younger guys, you'll want them not to wear down after playing into Nov the previous year.

I'm quite dubious Heyward plays much CF. If they planed to play him in CF then they wouldn't have signed Jay. What's far more likely to happen is you will see something like Zobrist sit and have rizzo, baez, russell, bryant, Schwarber, Almora, Heyward one day then another day you might sit Schwarber and move Zobrist into LF. Another day you might sit Bryant and move Baez to 3B and Zobrist to 2B. Russell can sit and Baez can play SS with Zobrist at 2B. Rizzo can sit and either Bryant or Baez moves to 1B. So on and so forth. You may not ever see the cubs role out their "playoff" line up during the regular season because you may end up sitting one "starter" every day and just rotate pieces around that way. Likewise you can platoon Almora and Jay in CF and have them rotate when Heyward sits if you so choose.

By doing that you really aren't taking much out of your every day line up but you keep everyone including your bench players fresh and ready should they be called upon. And of course that's to say nothing of pinch hitting or the 10 DH games the cubs get.
 

anotheridiot

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The same way they justify using a 6 man rotation or benching starters on sundays like maddon did last year. If the cubs get out to a huge lead in the division like they did last year then there is no reason to press to win 105-110 games.

Its kind of true, but if they get on pace to challenge that 116 record, I think they will go for it.
 

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