Offseason rumors/discussion thread

chibears55

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I hated losing Eloy but until we actually see him play everyday in the majors, we have no clue about him to sit here and say that was a mistake by Theo/Jed to trade him..

If anything, maybe they could of moved him for more or better then Q, especially with Cease involved in deal.
 

beckdawg

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He would have had a position here if they stayed away from Heyward.

No he wouldn't. He's not going to be a RF. Hell he might not even be a LF long term according to scouting. I literally cited you a guy who used to work in atlanta's front office as a scout and who still uses numerous contacts to compile fangraphs prospect list and he is saying the scouting isn't sure he stays a position player.
 

anotheridiot

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No he wouldn't. He's not going to be a RF. Hell he might not even be a LF long term according to scouting. I literally cited you a guy who used to work in atlanta's front office as a scout and who still uses numerous contacts to compile fangraphs prospect list and he is saying the scouting isn't sure he stays a position player.

.993 in 2015 in 95 games with 4 assists in right field. Then he was the ONLY hitter who dominated in the 2015 playoffs, up until the point they replaced him with a 182 million dollar man and he turned to shit. By the way, he was still the starting right fielder for the cubs in 2016 since they signed Heyward for center and then they took fowler back.

I cant wait til fangraphs starts getting an algorithm for mind fucks because there is not one for common sense...
 

beckdawg

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.993 in 2015 in 95 games with 4 assists in right field. Then he was the ONLY hitter who dominated in the 2015 playoffs, up until the point they replaced him with a 182 million dollar man and he turned to shit. By the way, he was still the starting right fielder for the cubs in 2016 since they signed Heyward for center and then they took fowler back.

I cant wait til fangraphs starts getting an algorithm for mind fucks because there is not one for common sense...

Algorithms have nothing to do with this. This is entirely scouting as it's been done for 100 years.
 

CSF77

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Algorithms have nothing to do with this. This is entirely scouting as it's been done for 100 years.

He lost when he posted Fielding %. All that covers is balls that he got to and didn't **** up. That doesn't cover the balls that he didn't get to and others do in that role.

Fielding % is a narrow minded analysis
 

anotheridiot

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He lost when he posted Fielding %. All that covers is balls that he got to and didn't **** up. That doesn't cover the balls that he didn't get to and others do in that role.

Fielding % is a narrow minded analysis

some of us did not go looking for mistakes. The argument is, you still have Zobrist playing 50 games in right field, Soler was not dumped because he could not play the outfield, he was given up on due to his injury history, you had it right back 10 posts ago, but most of us got over it when he hit a 120 mph rocket in his at bat following it. But go ahead, keep making excuses for Heyward since apparently all the cub fans want are the big names whether they produce or not. You know, he is costing us the opportunity to get Harper right?
 

CSF77

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some of us did not go looking for mistakes. The argument is, you still have Zobrist playing 50 games in right field, Soler was not dumped because he could not play the outfield, he was given up on due to his injury history, you had it right back 10 posts ago, but most of us got over it when he hit a 120 mph rocket in his at bat following it. But go ahead, keep making excuses for Heyward since apparently all the cub fans want are the big names whether they produce or not. You know, he is costing us the opportunity to get Harper right?

Zobrist: RF DRS 2 in those 434 innings played. Which is slightly above avg. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7435&position=2B/OF

Soler 2015 RF DRS -8 in 825 innings. Well below avg. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=14221&position=OF

So what was your point again?
 

CSF77

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I've read some stuff on this also. Basically Dusty was a players manager and played up to him and really didn't get on his ass about fundamentals. Rizzo never pushed it either. There has been much feedback about how many times he jogs on ground outs etc. His implosion in the OF was not shocking because he has never been pushed to get better as a defender.
 

anotheridiot

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Zobrist: RF DRS 2 in those 434 innings played. Which is slightly above avg. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7435&position=2B/OF

Soler 2015 RF DRS -8 in 825 innings. Well below avg. https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=14221&position=OF

So what was your point again?

The point was, if Heyward WAS NOT HERE, wasn't right field covered for Soler injuries just by having Zobrist? If Soler failed as everyone expected, or just played 100 games, we were covered with Ben until we see what Eloy will do. Last couple you had Happ and Almora instead of Theo spending the winter trying to move heyward when the no trade finally relaxed? They left Heyward in the 2 hole the entire first half of his first year here. Gave him every opportunity to succeed, while they took Soler and gave him every reason to fail by telling him he was no longer good enough to play right field.

Bottom line, that would have just been Zobrist getting big dollars (compared to others) and the pay for pitching thru Free agency which is now done and its time to pony up to the core of the team we were supposed to have for a decade.
 

CSF77

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The point was, if Heyward WAS NOT HERE, wasn't right field covered for Soler injuries just by having Zobrist? If Soler failed as everyone expected, or just played 100 games, we were covered with Ben until we see what Eloy will do. Last couple you had Happ and Almora instead of Theo spending the winter trying to move heyward when the no trade finally relaxed? They left Heyward in the 2 hole the entire first half of his first year here. Gave him every opportunity to succeed, while they took Soler and gave him every reason to fail by telling him he was no longer good enough to play right field.

Bottom line, that would have just been Zobrist getting big dollars (compared to others) and the pay for pitching thru Free agency which is now done and its time to pony up to the core of the team we were supposed to have for a decade.

Zobrist was signed to play 2B.

2015 Russell and Castro swapped mid season. Castro was far better as a 2B and Russell was being eased into the job. Soler was injured alot.

2016 Castro was traded to open payroll for Zobrist

.December 8, 2015
Signed John Lackey as a free agent.

Signed Ben Zobrist as a free agent.

Traded Starlin Castro to the New York Yankees. Received a player to be named later and Adam Warren. The New York Yankees sent Brendan Ryan (December 17, 2015) to the Chicago Cubs to complete the trade.

1 move was to make Lester happy bringing in his buddy from the Sox. 2nd was to make Joe happy because all season long the wanting a Zobrist type wouldn't stop. Zo wanted a full time role so they traded their 2B to do it. Baez was in limbo at this point after striking out 50% of the time in 2015. He became better after a AAA demotion. 2014 he had 95 SO in 213 AB'S. 2015 he spent the majority in Iowa. 76 AB' in 2015 is not a lock for shit.

2016 they wanted to extend the rotation. They signed Lackey.

They wanted to sign Zo. Did that and cleared Castro.

They were a OF short. Fowler wanted a 4 year deal and the Cubs really did not want to go over 1 year with Almora close. Soler was a train wreck and a injury waiting to happen in RF. So they decided to invest into the TOP OF FREE AGENT.

It is not their fault that Jason tanked. It really isn't.

Regardless all of this is just bull shit anyways it changes nothing to whine over spilt milk.

This is the way I'm looking at things right now. **** Manny and Harper. Trout is a far better talent and hits F)A in 2 years. I would rather not close another opertunity.
 

SilenceS

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I always hated losing Cease over Eloy. Eloy I didnt mind. Cease was my problem.
 

chibears55

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Wondering if it possible that Theo and Jed decided to pass spending on Harper or Machado this offseason in order to spend on next offseason pitching that could be available

Starting pitchers: Chris Sale, Gerrit Cole, Madison Bumgarner, Justin Verlander, Zack Wheeler, Stephen Strasburg (opt-out)

Relievers: Dellin Betances, Arodys Vizcaino, Ryan Pressly
 

CSF77

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Wondering if it possible that Theo and Jed decided to pass spending on Harper or Machado this offseason in order to spend on next offseason pitching that could be available

Starting pitchers: Chris Sale, Gerrit Cole, Madison Bumgarner, Justin Verlander, Zack Wheeler, Stephen Strasburg (opt-out)

Relievers: Dellin Betances, Arodys Vizcaino, Ryan Pressly

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VJ9nVwD1eUJabnL9tuQuxJa1K2oM2HXyqJS8Od0pMIo/pubhtml

I would set up for Trout in 2021. All other moves would be set up to free up payroll to do this.

2021 Lester drops off so replacing that with Trout...

2022 Bryant goes F/A so this would lessen the blow if they can't resign.

They would have Yu and Heyward left paid until 2023. They take up 44M per year. Trout IMO is a 35M per commitment. So between the 3 you would be paying out 80M. Leaving 100-130 mil left for a payroll. Bryant makes sense at 30 per as you basically can move him to 1B to close his career. Trout falls to a corner OF spot. Baez IDK if they retain. He has some holes to his game and I don't see them going 20M on him.

Staff wise I believe that they would rather self develop vs pay out on bottom of the rotation types. Hendricks I can see a extension offer to keep him and Yu on hand.
 

chibears55

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VJ9nVwD1eUJabnL9tuQuxJa1K2oM2HXyqJS8Od0pMIo/pubhtml

I would set up for Trout in 2021. All other moves would be set up to free up payroll to do this.

2021 Lester drops off so replacing that with Trout...

2022 Bryant goes F/A so this would lessen the blow if they can't resign.

They would have Yu and Heyward left paid until 2023. They take up 44M per year. Trout IMO is a 35M per commitment. So between the 3 you would be paying out 80M. Leaving 100-130 mil left for a payroll. Bryant makes sense at 30 per as you basically can move him to 1B to close his career. Trout falls to a corner OF spot. Baez IDK if they retain. He has some holes to his game and I don't see them going 20M on him.

Staff wise I believe that they would rather self develop vs pay out on bottom of the rotation types. Hendricks I can see a extension offer to keep him and Yu on hand.
Trout making close to 35 per now,
Im sure he gonna be looking for 40 per

I'm not so sure the Cubs will be on that either...
They don't want to offer a couple of 26 yr old 10 yrs 300, I doubt in a couple yrs their gonna want to or be able to offer a 29 yr old 10 yrs 400

I hope in a couple yrs they have a good enough roster like this year, to where they dont need to drop crazy money on one guy just to compete
 

Castor76

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Trout making close to 35 per now,
Im sure he gonna be looking for 40 per

I'm not so sure the Cubs will be on that either...
They don't want to offer a couple of 26 yr old 10 yrs 300, I doubt in a couple yrs their gonna want to or be able to offer a 29 yr old 10 yrs 400

I hope in a couple yrs they have a good enough roster like this year, to where they dont need to drop crazy money on one guy just to compete

Trout's getting that much now because of the arb buy out deal he signed. I actually think he'll be looking as much for a winner as he will money.
 

CSF77

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A team is going to have to clear cash to sign him. Seeing how many of the teams out there are scared to go over 120M a 35-40M man is never going there.

I believe that his preference is Philly. He is from NJ and is a Eagles fan boy so if they have the cleared payroll sure. But I believe that they won't unless for some reason they miss on both this year. I don't see them floating 2 30M+ bats
 

Castor76

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Not saying they won't have the payroll space, but Philly will have about 7 8 figure salaries on the payroll for 2021 just with guys they have now. If Arrietta uses his option, there's 20M at least, 20M for McCutchcen, 14.85M for Segura, 12.25M for Nola, and 10.35M for Herrera. Their 3B will be in his final Arby year and is getting 5.2M now. Then do they try to re-sign Realmuto, because that will be 8 figures too? Without Realmuto, that's about 85M just in those 6 players. They sign one of the 2 big one this year, and that's most likely another 25M.

The Cubs are likely to have that many themselves for fairness.
 

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