Offseason Stuff

[CSF77]

What is your love with brittle older lefty types like Ryu and Price?
They are going to be 33 and 35 next years old dude.
The likelihood of them beating their age gets thinner and thinner and you still want to take on money for that?
64Mil could probably cover 3 years of Wheeler or Mad Bum.
Rather have them then guys close to their mid 30's and on the wrong side of 30.

MadBum most likely goes to ATL and he has heavy miles on his arm. He is like Kershaw and is a low 90 pitcher. He will get Paid like Jake did and the results might be the same.

Price has 3 years and in this scenerio most of the first year deferred.

My vision is Marquez will be at AA this year and 2 years is a safe bet for him promoting.

Lester they have control of for 2 years and this is a natural turn over.

Alozay they would have the 5 open for him to take over.

So there is already a plan in place for internal turn over.

Price would just give stability at the top while the 4-5 develop.

I am fine in this situation. It costs Q and Chatwood. That is it. And that is not a cost that hurts them.

 

[anotheridiot]

What does this mean?

But I get your hate of Rizzo leading off. Your logic is flawed though. Batting 1 or 3 matters little if your issue is his Baserunning speed. He is still the same guy. But with an extra PA per game.

To me is comes down to success as a lead off and Rizzo is the only one on this team.

With his yearly slow starts, sounds like a great plan. 2-40, 3-50, sounds like the way to get this season off to a great start.

Alot has been made of Rizzo getting Ross to sign here, I dont know how they were connected, but they were. If anyone thinks David Ross is going to be buddies with Rizzo in the current position, you are sadly going to be mistaken.

David Ross' greatest mentor was Bobby Cox. Does anyone remember how he managed small ball? Rizzo should be hitting 40 home runs, driving in 120, and that does not belong in the leadoff position. The entire smartest guys in the room, best OBP on top, how has that worked? Really? There is never anyone to drive in runs. Rizzo and KB need to take that challenge, not being the ones trying to get on base to score the runs. Sure 400 whatever wins, balls get cut off in september and golfing early. They need to get a big lead and take no game as "meaningless". 2018 did not teach anyone that ever game matters when its go party after the loss. That stuck in 2019, same disappointment.

There cannot be 5 new players on this team, it is not going to happen. Nick will be gone and Heyward needs to get back to right field to be worth his deal, not be a lower middle of the pack center fielder. You want someone from the roster in center, give it to KB, that is where he would rather play if he is stuck in the outfield where the ball is hit right at him. Let the weak armed Nico have it over putting Heyward out there.

Learn from mistakes.

 

[CSF77]

With his yearly slow starts, sounds like a great plan. 2-40, 3-50, sounds like the way to get this season off to a great start.

Alot has been made of Rizzo getting Ross to sign here, I dont know how they were connected, but they were. If anyone thinks David Ross is going to be buddies with Rizzo in the current position, you are sadly going to be mistaken.

David Ross' greatest mentor was Bobby Cox. Does anyone remember how he managed small ball? Rizzo should be hitting 40 home runs, driving in 120, and that does not belong in the leadoff position. The entire smartest guys in the room, best OBP on top, how has that worked? Really? There is never anyone to drive in runs. Rizzo and KB need to take that challenge, not being the ones trying to get on base to score the runs. Sure 400 whatever wins, balls get cut off in september and golfing early. They need to get a big lead and take no game as "meaningless". 2018 did not teach anyone that ever game matters when its go party after the loss. That stuck in 2019, same disappointment.

There cannot be 5 new players on this team, it is not going to happen. Nick will be gone and Heyward needs to get back to right field to be worth his deal, not be a lower middle of the pack center fielder. You want someone from the roster in center, give it to KB, that is where he would rather play if he is stuck in the outfield where the ball is hit right at him. Let the weak armed Nico have it over putting Heyward out there.

Learn from mistakes.

Like I posted. Right now Happ is the starting CF. He came in strong at the end of the year. But he choked balls as a lead off. As did Heyward and Schwarber. All tanked when put there.

Rizzo has improved every time that he has been tasked with the job. The line up suffered because the rest were not good enough to replace him. But with Schwarber and Happ showing real improvement last year outside of the 1 hole this changes.

The lead off is a different mentality. It is about fighting to get on base. Rizzo will choke up and take a pitch off his body. He was the only starter with a OBA over .400.

So if that doesn't get through to you I'm not sure what will?

End of the day the CF market sucks. Happ looks like the prime mover if he can sustain his 2nd half.

 

[fatbeard]

Like I posted. Right now Happ is the starting CF. He came in strong at the end of the year. But he choked balls as a lead off. As did Heyward and Schwarber. All tanked when put there.

Rizzo has improved every time that he has been tasked with the job. The line up suffered because the rest were not good enough to replace him. But with Schwarber and Happ showing real improvement last year outside of the 1 hole this changes.

The lead off is a different mentality. It is about fighting to get on base. Rizzo will choke up and take a pitch off his body. He was the only starter with a OBA over .400.

So if that doesn't get through to you I'm not sure what will?

End of the day the CF market sucks. Happ looks like the prime mover if he can sustain his 2nd half.

I absolutely do not understand how someone who complains ceaselessly about Contreras' framing, though he is a net average defensive C even with framing taken into account, can turn around and advocate that Ian Happ should be the starting CF next year. It's just wildly inconsistent.

 

[Castor76]

Boston will trade Price they will not trade Sale. Let's start there.

The Cubs are swapping 2 back of the rotation pitchers for a front of the rotation. There is no real loss in this trade

The 64 Mil is a real gripe and I agree it would be a leap of faith that Price rebounds. He has the track record of success going on. Injury is always going to be a concern for any pitcher.

I disagree. I think Price's lack of production plus his contract makes him pretty much untradeable. No pun intended, but the price for Price would have to be pretty low.

 

[anotheridiot]

Nico is not in the same ball park talent wise as Eloy. Let him prove himself first.

He proved himself at every level they put him at and it really has no bearing on how he actually plays or the price you put on him. If Bote was worth 5/15 to buy out service time and arbitration, I am sure Nico is as well. That is the addition to this years club, Nico at 2B day 1. If they are going to play the service time game after losing a month last year, he wont be up til June or July.
I just felt that Eloy was pissed when they optioned him to AAA and the contract agreement got him going on the club where he belonged. I dont think anything that Nico showed last year proves that he does not deserve the shot.

I am not saying he is worth a deal, but what are you going to do, sign some "NAME BETTERAN" to a 2/15 deal to play second?

 

[anotheridiot]

I absolutely do not understand how someone who complains ceaselessly about Contreras' framing, though he is a net average defensive C even with framing taken into account, can turn around and advocate that Ian Happ should be the starting CF next year. It's just wildly inconsistent.

Robot umps are coming. We also forget the fact that Willson played one inning in right field and went on the shelf for a hammy injury. Squatting 200 times a game compared to sprints is a whole different training regimin. But thats ok, yesterday he had Hayward as our starting CF, and now its Happ. At least when I spew its the same idea.

 

[Steve_A]

MadBum most likely goes to ATL and he has heavy miles on his arm. He is like Kershaw and is a low 90 pitcher. He will get Paid like Jake did and the results might be the same.

Price has 3 years and in this scenerio most of the first year deferred.

My vision is Marquez will be at AA this year and 2 years is a safe bet for him promoting.

Lester they have control of for 2 years and this is a natural turn over.

Alozay they would have the 5 open for him to take over.

So there is already a plan in place for internal turn over.

Price would just give stability at the top while the 4-5 develop.

I am fine in this situation. It costs Q and Chatwood. That is it. And that is not a cost that hurts them.

Price hasn’t been stable for a while now and can be cancerous to the club house as to how he handles the press. I know what Mad Bum is but at least he still throws innings unlike Ryu and Price.

Also 64M added to the future ain’t NOTHING it cripples the team long term.

 

[CSF77]

I disagree. I think Price's lack of production plus his contract makes him pretty much untradeable. No pun intended, but the price for Price would have to be pretty low.

2016: Price 17-9 3.99 ERA 230 IP (4.4 WAR) Q 13-12 3.20 ERA 208 IP (4.9 WAR)
2017: 6-3 3.38 ERA 74.2 IP (1.5 WAR) Q: 11-11 4.03 ERA 174 IP (4.0 WAR)
2018: Price 16-7 3.58 ERA 176 IP (2.4 WAR) Q 13-11 4.03 ERA 174 IP (1.7 WAR)
2019 Price 7-5 4.28 ERA 107 IP (2.3 WAR) Q 13-9 4.68 ERA 171 IP (3.5 WAR)

Now there is good argument for retaining Q here. But I see it as he is a 2-4 WAR pitcher now that will avg 180 IP.

But
Q 14.1 WAR in 727 IP AVG .019WAR/ IP
Price: 10.6 in 588 IP AVG .018 WAR/ IP

Basically they are the same guy right now. 2-4 WAR SP over 170 IP

 

[Steve_A]

2016: Price 17-9 3.99 ERA 230 IP (4.4 WAR) Q 13-12 3.20 ERA 208 IP (4.9 WAR)
2017: 6-3 3.38 ERA 74.2 IP (1.5 WAR) Q: 11-11 4.03 ERA 174 IP (4.0 WAR)
2018: Price 16-7 3.58 ERA 176 IP (2.4 WAR) Q 13-11 4.03 ERA 174 IP (1.7 WAR)
2019 Price 7-5 4.28 ERA 107 IP (2.3 WAR) Q 13-9 4.68 ERA 171 IP (3.5 WAR)

Now there is good argument for retaining Q here. But I see it as he is a 2-4 WAR pitcher now that will avg 180 IP.

But
Q 14.1 WAR in 727 IP AVG .019WAR/ IP
Price: 10.6 in 588 IP AVG .018 WAR/ IP

Basically they are the same guy right now. 2-4 WAR SP over 170 IP

Innings and age!
Please quit ignoring facts to make your point!

 

[CSF77]

Price hasn’t been stable for a while now and can be cancerous to the club house as to how he handles the press. I know what Mad Bum is but at least he still throws innings unlike Ryu and Price.

Nothing says that Madbum will sign here.

I would guess that the Cubs are 100:1 odds.

Cubs are in better shape sitting on Q and letting Alozay start at this point. My main issue was control past this year. Q is gone and you don't want to invest in him. Marques is a reach in 2021. That would be a rush job.

2021: Trevor Bauer Which I would be for. Marcus Stroman seems soft. Masahiro Tanaka 32 at the time and not a poor choice. Taijuan Walker which might work if the Cubs have a strong system in place for rebooting starters.

 

[CSF77]

Innings and age!
Please quit ignoring facts to make your point!

Fucking injury. You can't base anything off of that. These guys are ripping their arms off every time they go out there and any one of them can go down on any pitch.

So you have to go with value when they are out there.

The ONLY time that you can make that case is in Morrow's case. He has been out for a year and 1/2. Yes that is bad value.

But by what I posted Price has had 2 injured years in HIS WHOLE CAREER.

Birthdate: 8/26/1985 (34 y, 1 m, 28 d)

So what? Lester ain't young either.

 

[Steve_A]

Fucking injury. You can't base anything off of that. These guys are ripping their arms off every time they go out there and any one of them can go down on any pitch.

So you have to go with value when they are out there.

The ONLY time that you can make that case is in Morrow's case. He has been out for a year and 1/2. Yes that is bad value.

But by what I posted Price has had 2 injured years in HIS WHOLE CAREER.

Birthdate: 8/26/1985 (34 y, 1 m, 28 d)

So what? Lester ain't young either.

Lester is already signed!
You’re proposing to add another weight to the club!
Also the number of injuries do not cover up for the lack of innings!
Lastly you can’t deny the fact that he was a total ass to the Boston press.
No one in their rightful mind can make this seem logical.

Also you keep on adding shit to my comments
but I’m saying the Cubs should try for another pitcher.
Who the hell said the odds are for or against them.
You just want to keep on adding shit to make your sorry point passable.

 

[Steve_A]

I disagree. I think Price's lack of production plus his contract makes him pretty much untradeable. No pun intended, but the price for Price would have to be pretty low.

Can’t agree more with the statement.

 

[Omeletpants]

I WOULD RIP MY DICK OFF IF PRICE WAS A CUB

 

[fatbeard]

Did anyone here actually listen to Epstein's press conference? How is signing more mid-30s starting pitchers in line with anything he said?

 

[anotheridiot]

We watched Boston stay the hell away from Kimbrel last off season, I would tend to say if they want to move Price or Sale, they know something the rest of us do not know. They wont be trusting those pitchers for their own club, there is no reason we should trust them for the cubs, no matter how desperate we are.

 

[Castor76]

We watched Boston stay the hell away from Kimbrel last off season, I would tend to say if they want to move Price or Sale, they know something the rest of us do not know. They wont be trusting those pitchers for their own club, there is no reason we should trust them for the cubs, no matter how desperate we are.

Their projected payroll is around 220M for next season. Sale is movable at price versus production much more than Price. The Cubs are 182-190 range depending on if they bring back Morrow. So if Boston would go just Q for Sale and the Cubs let Morrow walk, it would put Boston at around 200 M and the Cubs in the same range.

 

[JimJohnson]

Their projected payroll is around 220M for next season. Sale is movable at price versus production much more than Price. The Cubs are 182-190 range depending on if they bring back Morrow. So if Boston would go just Q for Sale and the Cubs let Morrow walk, it would put Boston at around 200 M and the Cubs in the same range.

Is bringing Morrow back even on the table? God that would be fucking stupid.

 

[Steve_A]

So if Boston would go just Q for Sale and the Cubs let Morrow walk, it would put Boston at around 200 M and the Cubs in the same range.

Would be great to get a top of the rotation guy in Sale but think it'd be harder than that.
Future salaries will be hard to swallow as well.