Offseason Stuff

[Parade_Rain]

If people want to get Willy out from behind home plate, I think he could make a decent 3B, considering that’s where he was before going behind the dish in the Minors. Of course that would depend on what happens this off-season.

 

[CSF77]

Lester is already signed!
You’re proposing to add another weight to the club!
Also the number of injuries do not cover up for the lack of innings!
Lastly you can’t deny the fact that he was a total ass to the Boston press.
No one in their rightful mind can make this seem logical.

Also you keep on adding shit to my comments
but I’m saying the Cubs should try for another pitcher.
Who the hell said the odds are for or against them.
You just want to keep on adding shit to make your sorry point passable.

I think the point is in a full season Price = Q.

Q is gone.
Price comes with 3 years.

Cubs really don't need to do anything.

This year add Alozay.

Next year drop Q and Chatwood keep Lester. Add 1 arm. Marquez, Abbott or external option.

Following year Jon falls and they can look to make another big play.

Theo has said that he likes to go 3 years between major SP pick ups.

 

[Castor76]

Is bringing Morrow back even on the table? God that would be fucking stupid.

I would only do it if I was assured Boston wanted him in a trade. That way the Cubs don't even pay the 3 M buy out. But if I was 110% on that, I pay the 3M.

 

[Castor76]

Would be great to get a top of the rotation guy in Sale but think it'd be harder than that.
Future salaries will be hard to swallow as well.

Sale is no more expensive than he is in 2020. Chatwood is also in his final year and either movable or not long enough to be a problem. Lester costs 10M to let walk in 2021, but it save another 15M. So going into 2021 you have Darvish, Sale, and Hendricks making 68M combined.

 

[Castor76]

I think the point is in a full season Price = Q.

Q is gone.
Price comes with 3 years.

Cubs really don't need to do anything.

This year add Alozay.

Next year drop Q and Chatwood keep Lester. Add 1 arm. Marquez, Abbott or external option.

Following year Jon falls and they can look to make another big play.

Theo has said that he likes to go 3 years between major SP pick ups.

But you're advocating trading Q for Price and Price costs triple what Q does for the same output.The Cubs would be better off holding onto them and being sellers next season.

 

[CSF77]

But you're advocating trading Q for Price and Price costs triple what Q does for the same output.The Cubs would be better off holding onto them and being sellers next season.

It would be more so if they cut Lester a year early. Lester has a 10 mil buy out 25 mil to play in 2021.

Regardless I don't expect much change in the rotation. They will most likely just have Chatwood, Alozay, Mills and Rea battle it out for the 5.

2021 will be the the next time that they might sign a SP.
2015: Lester
2018: Yu
2021: Next guy.

Out of the starters on the board Bauer IMO is worth a big investment.

 

[Steve_A]

It would be more so if they cut Lester a year early. Lester has a 10 mil buy out 25 mil to play in 2021.

Regardless I don't expect much change in the rotation. They will most likely just have Chatwood, Alozay, Mills and Rea battle it out for the 5.

2021 will be the the next time that they might sign a SP.
2015: Lester
2018: Yu
2021: Next guy.

Out of the starters on the board Bauer IMO is worth a big investment.

Next years guys are so bad it’s unbelievable.
Also Bauer with his inconsistencies and behavior problems is a no go imo.

 

[knoxville7]

Pitching pitching pitching. That should be the focus of the offseason. Time to pair a couple position players and prospects for control over a quality young starter that they won’t have to pay big for 2+ years.

 

[Steve_A]

Pitching pitching pitching. That should be the focus of the offseason. Time to pair a couple position players and prospects for control over a quality young starter that they won’t have to pay big for 2+ years.

Agree Agree Agree. The staff right now is too weak for a great playoff run.

 

[anotheridiot]

Their projected payroll is around 220M for next season. Sale is movable at price versus production much more than Price. The Cubs are 182-190 range depending on if they bring back Morrow. So if Boston would go just Q for Sale and the Cubs let Morrow walk, it would put Boston at around 200 M and the Cubs in the same range.

I understand that, but both Sale and Price had issues with injuries to their arms last year and a reason Boston did not compete. They know what they have and no way we have the prospects it will take to get either of them. They are not going to take salary on if the argument is they are over the tax already.
We go on about what we lost with the Q trade, look at what Boston lost with the Sale trade. They wont take back anything but prospects.

 

[fatbeard]

Pitching pitching pitching. That should be the focus of the offseason. Time to pair a couple position players and prospects for control over a quality young starter that they won’t have to pay big for 2+ years.

I think this is what they'll do with Bryant.

 

[CSF77]

I understand that, but both Sale and Price had issues with injuries to their arms last year and a reason Boston did not compete. They know what they have and no way we have the prospects it will take to get either of them. They are not going to take salary on if the argument is they are over the tax already.
We go on about what we lost with the Q trade, look at what Boston lost with the Sale trade. They wont take back anything but prospects.

The whole point is you can say trade for Sale because. But the reality is Sale is a top 5 SP when healthy. And Boston is not going to market that when his value is at its lowest. That is why this whole dialog is stupid.

 

[CSF77]

Rotation:
Hendricks: 4.1 fWAR 20.6 SO% 4.4 BB%
Quintana: 3.5 fWAR 20.4 SO% 6.2 BB%
Lester 2.8 fWAR 21.6 SO% 6.8 BB%
Darvish 2.6 fWAR 31.3 SO% 7.7 BB%

Replacing
Hamels 2.5 fWAR 23.2 SO% 9.1 BB%

He was the worst of the 5. Darvish's 2nd half was off the charts 2 of that WAR came post ASG. So a strong season we arew talking about a 4-5 WAR pitcher.

Hendricks put up 4 WAR and only got 11 wins out of it. Year before 3.5 WAR and got 14.

I think there is a bigger issue going on here. It has more to do with the pen and holding leads. Last year the pe n was injured and it caused turn over. Which creates instability. The Closer role was a train wreck all season long.

Again why I keep posting go after Dellin Betances. That should be the first issue to answer. No matter how good the rotation is if the pen gives away the game continuously it is a wasted effort.

 

[Castor76]

The whole point is you can say trade for Sale because. But the reality is Sale is a top 5 SP when healthy. And Boston is not going to market that when his value is at its lowest. That is why this whole dialog is stupid.

Boston has got to drop payroll unless they want to pay out the nose in luxury tax in 2020. Unless they want to part with Betts, Sale is their best trade chip. Maybe others can offer a better package than the Cubs, but don't call the idea of Boston getting payroll relief for a solid pitcher while having to give up a great when healthy but not always healthy pitcher stupid. Especially when you're talking about taking on the worse contract and lesser pitcher.

 

[CSF77]

Boston has got to drop payroll unless they want to pay out the nose in luxury tax in 2020. Unless they want to part with Betts, Sale is their best trade chip. Maybe others can offer a better package than the Cubs, but don't call the idea of Boston getting payroll relief for a solid pitcher while having to give up a great when healthy but not always healthy pitcher stupid. Especially when you're talking about taking on the worse contract and lesser pitcher.

What is stupid is trading while his value is at its lowest.

To even suggest that they would it shows that you don't respect the decision making process of a first class organization.

 

[anotheridiot]

Rotation:
Hendricks: 4.1 fWAR 20.6 SO% 4.4 BB%
Quintana: 3.5 fWAR 20.4 SO% 6.2 BB%
Lester 2.8 fWAR 21.6 SO% 6.8 BB%
Darvish 2.6 fWAR 31.3 SO% 7.7 BB%

Replacing
Hamels 2.5 fWAR 23.2 SO% 9.1 BB%

He was the worst of the 5. Darvish's 2nd half was off the charts 2 of that WAR came post ASG. So a strong season we arew talking about a 4-5 WAR pitcher.

Hendricks put up 4 WAR and only got 11 wins out of it. Year before 3.5 WAR and got 14.

I think there is a bigger issue going on here. It has more to do with the pen and holding leads. Last year the pe n was injured and it caused turn over. Which creates instability. The Closer role was a train wreck all season long.

Again why I keep posting go after Dellin Betances. That should be the first issue to answer. No matter how good the rotation is if the pen gives away the game continuously it is a wasted effort.

The whole problem with this rotation is Lester is still going to be called and be treated like the ace.

These will be the two most interesting relationships to watch with Ross, I am pretty sure the first bump in the road will be the first time he goes out there to pull Lester before the fifth inning. The other will be Rizzo and I guess a 2a will be how Contares takes it.

I would not count lester out though, I can see him coming in to camp 20 pounds lighter and ready to earn the spot that has been handed to him.

 

[CSF77]

And the guy that I see them making a decision on is Bradley Jr. 11 mil that they would drop and nothing shows that he will even out.

So right now they are 56M under in guaranteed deals. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...76bh-lioOnk5iyXenZDM3bBpzm6Xp_iRFijdB/pubhtml

Pedroia has been injured so I'm not sure if his 13.75M is deferred from tax due to insurance or not.

So it comes down to Arb cases. Bradley they could cut or trade for meh talent. But that might end up a DFA.

The rest would be case by case. If they can fit a team together under tax fine. If not they most likely not offer arb to under achievers first and back fill with league min deals.

 

[Castor76]

What is stupid is trading while his value is at its lowest.

To even suggest that they would it shows that you don't respect the decision making process of a first class organization.

Can you hear me from your high horse? Sale's value can't increase unless he plays. But if he plays, every pay period he has goes against Boston's payroll for the CBT Tax. So if he get's two months in, that's about 10 million they have to absorb and hope they find a buyer. That essentially is what they'd have to pay to get the entire year from Q. Boston is in a financial crunch.

Boston is a first class organization. Being one, they know they have no apparent shot in 2020 and might not have one in 2021. But to have one in 2021, they have to make cuts this year. You claim Sale's value is at its lowest. I counter it's the only thing that makes him truly tradeable. If he were at 100% ace level, it'd be insane to trade him with so many years of control left. Price doesn't produce for his price tag. Boston would have to cover 10-15 M per to get even a bag of baseballs back for him. At that point, Boston gains nothing. Could they find a team will to take Martinez's remaining deal? But unless an NL team thinks he can play the OF, they only have AL teams to talk too. That would reduce it to teams that want to be title contenders. Tampa doesn't spend like that. The Yankees are set. Houston might be interested.

The question Boston has to answer is they want to keep their current investments and rebuild by trading Betts and others or they do what they can to shed those current high dollar contracts for players who have value.

 

[fatbeard]

The whole problem with this rotation is Lester is still going to be called and be treated like the ace.

Does anyone actually think of 36 year old Jon Lester as an "ace"?

Anyone?

Buehler?

These will be the two most interesting relationships to watch with Ross, I am pretty sure the first bump in the road will be the first time he goes out there to pull Lester before the fifth inning.

I imagine it will be exactly like the hundreds of times he went to the mound as Lester's catcher and told him to pull his head out of his ass.

I would not count lester out though, I can see him coming in to camp 20 pounds lighter and ready to earn the spot that has been handed to him.

Jon Lester hasn't "earned" his spot? He's 16th in WAR since 2015, 8th in IP, and he's literally the best FA signing of any sport in Chicago history, although I wouldn't disagree if someone wanted to go with Hossa. He's earned every penny of his contract, even the bad money years coming up. Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[anotheridiot]

Does anyone actually think of 36 year old Jon Lester as an "ace"?

Anyone?

Buehler?



I imagine it will be exactly like the hundreds of times he went to the mound as Lester's catcher and told him to pull his head out of his ass.



Jon Lester hasn't "earned" his spot? He's 16th in WAR since 2015, 8th in IP, and he's literally the best FA signing of any sport in Chicago history, although I wouldn't disagree if someone wanted to go with Hossa. He's earned every penny of his contract, even the bad money years coming up. Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

I just love making you look so intelligent.