OT: Karl Malone would pick Pippen over Jordan

[FirstTimer]

:lol:

 

[NCChiFan]

I liked Scottie's game and all, but there are a whole group of players I would start a team with over Scottie. Magic, Bird, MJ, Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Kareem...

 

[Crystallas]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX-nz3fwHqw]Karl Malone's Louisiana Tour - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Diddy1122]

It's Karl Malone. I expect him to say that. He was an incredible player, arguably the best PF ever, but he is one of the dumbest greatest players ever. Pip is a great player but there's atleast 10 other players I would start with before him, MJ of course being numero uno.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

**** YOU ALL!!!!!

Fucking idiots that probably didn't ever see Pip play in his prime.......

Guess some just don't appreciate the greatness.

SOMTIMES YOU GUYS DISCUST ME.....I am very very offended right now.

Don't open your potty mouths again in my presence.

:derbulls:

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I don't know who this kid is in this video, but id like to shake his hand.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdGEVTZMgxA]Scottie Pippen: ''LeBron Will Outscore MJ & Phil Jackson Will Coach Again'' (1080p) - YouTube[/ame]
:clap: your a good man Charlie Brown.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Those "legendary" Pippen threads had a bunch of legendary bullshit in them.

Pippen was as good as Jordan....bullshit
Pippen was better than Barkley....bullshit
Pippen better than Lebron James....bullshit
Pippen robbed of the MVP....bullshit
Pippen robbed of DPOY....bullshit
Grant Hill never would have been the player Pippen was had he been healthy....again, bullshit.

Those threads were a case study in basketball retardation...nothing to brag about...just legendary stupidity.

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!

 

[Captain Jack Flack]

When people discuss Scottie Pippen’s career and legacy during his 17 NBA seasons, it’s impossible not to mention his running mate Michael Jordan. Sure, Pippen played Robin to Jordan’s Batman. Most players would have. I disagree with people who feel Pippen’s hall of fame career was only due to the fact that he played opposite to Jordan. In my opinion, Pippen would have been a hall of fame caliber player for any team, in any system, under any coach in any era.

He is one of the league’s greatest treasures. His versatility was matched by few players in NBA history. Scottie Pippen was a very unique player. On defense, he mixed unusual length with strength and athleticism. There wasn’t an area defensively that he didn’t excell in. He was a lock-down defender guarding three different positions- small forward, shooting guard and point guard. Remember when Phil Jackson would use Scottie to defend the other team’s point guard? I remember opponents not beginning their offense until there were 11 seconds left on the shot clock because Pippen would pressure the point guard 94 feet. During his era and possibly beyond, he was the best permiter and wing defender in the sport. When he was forced to defend the low block, he succeeded there, too. He was truly a defensive mastermind. Body. Length. Athleticism. Intelligence.

For as versatile as he was on the defensive end, you could argue that he was more versatile on offense. Listed as a small forward, Pippen was practically the point guard for six Bulls championship teams. Certainly during crunch time. I remember Scottie crossing the time line dribbling the ball settling the Bulls into their offense more than any other player on that team. It seemed like he was always playing point guard. In NBA history, no other forward has more career assists than Pippen. He could also score off the dribble. He was a good slasher and not easy for opponents to defend. It was tough for opposing small forwards to defend him because he was often playing point guard. And you couldn’t defend him with a point guard, they were too small. He was a decent outside shooter (32% from downtown) and an above average free throw shooter.

To sum up Pippen’s overall game: He could do a lot of things well.

To me, he’s been completely misjudged. Or maybe underrated? I can’t determine which one.

Jordan would still be the best player of all time with or without Pippen. Jordan would still have multiple championships to his credit. But would he have six? I’m not sure Jordan would be wearing six rings without having Pippen be the player he was.

Maybe Michael needed Scottie more so than Scottie needed Michael? When Jordan bolted the NBA in 1993 to pursue a baseball career, Pippen became the Bulls’ unquestioned star and should have won the league MVP award during the ’93-94 season. Without Jordan, The Pippen-led Bulls won 55 games and took a tough Knicks team to seven games in the Eastern conference semi-finals. Pippen wasn’t able to beat that Knicks team without Jordan. I’m not sure Jordan would have been able to either without Pippen. In the Jordan absent ’93-’94 season, Pippen finished first or second in every major statistical category on his team (points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) and was named MVP of the all star game that year. He proved he could lead a team as one of the leagues best players. Pippen didn’t have a ton of help that season, Pete Myers was Jordan’s replacement, ok. The Bulls were still one of the best teams in the league that year.

His 10 NBA All-defensive team honors and 8 All-Defensive first team awards are each one shy of the all time record. He holds the NBA record for career steals from the forward position, like he does with assists. Those accomplishments in my opinion would still have been achieved with or without playing opposite to Jordan. I understand that statement may be easy to disagree with.

Again, don’t think I’m saying that Pippen was better than Jordan. That would make this post even more irrelevant. I’m just saying it’s closer than you might think. Jordan was the face of sports across the globe, but no player can win championships alone. Certainly not six of them. You can’t win six championships by yourself, even if you’re Michael Jordan.

In 1986-87 the Bulls won 40 games with Jordan playing all 82 and averaging 37.1 points per game. That was the year before Pippen was on the team. Jordan alone couldn’t help a poor supporting cast finish the season above 500. What happened the year Pippen arrived? The Bulls had a 10-game improvement and finished the ’87-88 season with a 50-32 record and would continue to improve each year. As Pippen progressed into a lock-down defender and 20 ppg scorer, the Bulls became a dynasty. When the Bulls were at their absolute peak, Jordan and Pippen were both in their primes. Again, not saying Jordan wasn’t the primary factor for the Bulls dynasty, but he needed a another great player, and my belief is that he had one in Pippen.

And if you want to know my take on the one black eye on Pippen’s career, here that is: the argument he had with Phil Jackson during the 1994 playoffs when he refused to enter the game because Jackson elected Toni Kukoc to take the final shot (which he sunk at the buzzer)…that sequence was no doubt a punk move by Pippen. He felt he had earned the right to take the final shot in big games. It was his team, and his “Jimmy Chitwood moment” as my boy Bill Simmons writes. Jackson obviously chose correctly as the Bulls won the game. Though I feel it should have been Pippen’s moment, he earned it by carrying that team all season, he did act like a jackass throughout the ordeal. To Jackson’s defense, Pippen had never been in a moment like that before, and for whatever reason didn’t trust him with the biggest shot of the season. The bottom line is the Bulls won, and Scottie should have been happy with the outcome. It does remain to be the dark moment of his solo act in Chicago without Jordan. Which is too bad when you look at the season he had. Here were is rounded yearly averages for ’93-94: 22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals and 1 block per game. One hell of a year!

I may have never had to write this long ass post if it wasn’t for one failed fourth quarter in the 2000 Western Conference Finals. Pippen was the leader of a talented but misguided Portland Trail Blazers team that battled the young combination of Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant in one of the greatest seven game series of all time. The upstart Lakers were coached by Phil Jackson, as if you don’t remember. Pippen’s Blazers had a 17 point lead during the fourth quarter of game seven before completely falling apart and allowing the Lakers to pull off one the the NBA’s greatest comebacks and begin a dynasty of their own.

I think if Portland won that series and defeated the Indiana Pacers in The Finals that season, which they would have done, Pippen would have earned his seventh ring, giving him one more than Jordan and illustrating part of his legacy without mentioning Jordan- for at least one chapter.

Jordan never won a title before or after Scottie. In fact, Pippen came closer to winning a title without Jordan than Jordan did without Pippen. Just saying.

I hope Pippen will be remembered for what he was- one of the game’s all time versatile players, a historical defender and bona fide star. An all time great. A player who could get you 20-8-7 per night while locking down the opponent’s best player on defense.

I have a feeling some won’t look at his career the way I do. Most will remember him as a sidekick, a player who accomplished what he did due to the fact that he balled with the best ever.

I hope he gets his due.

I hope this isn't turning into another 1000 page Pippen argument thread like the one I made last summer.

If this is the case, then the mods should UNLOCK my legendary Pippen threads of 2011. :shrug:

Amen. :clap:

 

[Deng Defense Force]

Chuck daily did say Pippen was the best player on dream team 1.

Did Chuck Daly say that or did some random guy named Chuck say it daily?

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Did Chuck Daly say that or did some random guy named Chuck say it daily?

Chuck Daley (one of the greatest coaches to ever coach in league history) stands correct, even in the afterlife.
Ill take his word for it.

 

[clonetrooper264]

When people discuss Scottie Pippen’s career and legacy during his 17 NBA seasons, it’s impossible not to mention his running mate Michael Jordan. Sure, Pippen played Robin to Jordan’s Batman. Most players would have. I disagree with people who feel Pippen’s hall of fame career was only due to the fact that he played opposite to Jordan. In my opinion, Pippen would have been a hall of fame caliber player for any team, in any system, under any coach in any era.

He is one of the league’s greatest treasures. His versatility was matched by few players in NBA history. Scottie Pippen was a very unique player. On defense, he mixed unusual length with strength and athleticism. There wasn’t an area defensively that he didn’t excell in. He was a lock-down defender guarding three different positions- small forward, shooting guard and point guard. Remember when Phil Jackson would use Scottie to defend the other team’s point guard? I remember opponents not beginning their offense until there were 11 seconds left on the shot clock because Pippen would pressure the point guard 94 feet. During his era and possibly beyond, he was the best permiter and wing defender in the sport. When he was forced to defend the low block, he succeeded there, too. He was truly a defensive mastermind. Body. Length. Athleticism. Intelligence.

For as versatile as he was on the defensive end, you could argue that he was more versatile on offense. Listed as a small forward, Pippen was practically the point guard for six Bulls championship teams. Certainly during crunch time. I remember Scottie crossing the time line dribbling the ball settling the Bulls into their offense more than any other player on that team. It seemed like he was always playing point guard. In NBA history, no other forward has more career assists than Pippen. He could also score off the dribble. He was a good slasher and not easy for opponents to defend. It was tough for opposing small forwards to defend him because he was often playing point guard. And you couldn’t defend him with a point guard, they were too small. He was a decent outside shooter (32% from downtown) and an above average free throw shooter.

To sum up Pippen’s overall game: He could do a lot of things well.

To me, he’s been completely misjudged. Or maybe underrated? I can’t determine which one.

Jordan would still be the best player of all time with or without Pippen. Jordan would still have multiple championships to his credit. But would he have six? I’m not sure Jordan would be wearing six rings without having Pippen be the player he was.

Maybe Michael needed Scottie more so than Scottie needed Michael? When Jordan bolted the NBA in 1993 to pursue a baseball career, Pippen became the Bulls’ unquestioned star and should have won the league MVP award during the ’93-94 season. Without Jordan, The Pippen-led Bulls won 55 games and took a tough Knicks team to seven games in the Eastern conference semi-finals. Pippen wasn’t able to beat that Knicks team without Jordan. I’m not sure Jordan would have been able to either without Pippen. In the Jordan absent ’93-’94 season, Pippen finished first or second in every major statistical category on his team (points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) and was named MVP of the all star game that year. He proved he could lead a team as one of the leagues best players. Pippen didn’t have a ton of help that season, Pete Myers was Jordan’s replacement, ok. The Bulls were still one of the best teams in the league that year.

His 10 NBA All-defensive team honors and 8 All-Defensive first team awards are each one shy of the all time record. He holds the NBA record for career steals from the forward position, like he does with assists. Those accomplishments in my opinion would still have been achieved with or without playing opposite to Jordan. I understand that statement may be easy to disagree with.

Again, don’t think I’m saying that Pippen was better than Jordan. That would make this post even more irrelevant. I’m just saying it’s closer than you might think. Jordan was the face of sports across the globe, but no player can win championships alone. Certainly not six of them. You can’t win six championships by yourself, even if you’re Michael Jordan.

In 1986-87 the Bulls won 40 games with Jordan playing all 82 and averaging 37.1 points per game. That was the year before Pippen was on the team. Jordan alone couldn’t help a poor supporting cast finish the season above 500. What happened the year Pippen arrived? The Bulls had a 10-game improvement and finished the ’87-88 season with a 50-32 record and would continue to improve each year. As Pippen progressed into a lock-down defender and 20 ppg scorer, the Bulls became a dynasty. When the Bulls were at their absolute peak, Jordan and Pippen were both in their primes. Again, not saying Jordan wasn’t the primary factor for the Bulls dynasty, but he needed a another great player, and my belief is that he had one in Pippen.

And if you want to know my take on the one black eye on Pippen’s career, here that is: the argument he had with Phil Jackson during the 1994 playoffs when he refused to enter the game because Jackson elected Toni Kukoc to take the final shot (which he sunk at the buzzer)…that sequence was no doubt a punk move by Pippen. He felt he had earned the right to take the final shot in big games. It was his team, and his “Jimmy Chitwood moment” as my boy Bill Simmons writes. Jackson obviously chose correctly as the Bulls won the game. Though I feel it should have been Pippen’s moment, he earned it by carrying that team all season, he did act like a jackass throughout the ordeal. To Jackson’s defense, Pippen had never been in a moment like that before, and for whatever reason didn’t trust him with the biggest shot of the season. The bottom line is the Bulls won, and Scottie should have been happy with the outcome. It does remain to be the dark moment of his solo act in Chicago without Jordan. Which is too bad when you look at the season he had. Here were is rounded yearly averages for ’93-94: 22 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals and 1 block per game. One hell of a year!

I may have never had to write this long ass post if it wasn’t for one failed fourth quarter in the 2000 Western Conference Finals. Pippen was the leader of a talented but misguided Portland Trail Blazers team that battled the young combination of Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant in one of the greatest seven game series of all time. The upstart Lakers were coached by Phil Jackson, as if you don’t remember. Pippen’s Blazers had a 17 point lead during the fourth quarter of game seven before completely falling apart and allowing the Lakers to pull off one the the NBA’s greatest comebacks and begin a dynasty of their own.

I think if Portland won that series and defeated the Indiana Pacers in The Finals that season, which they would have done, Pippen would have earned his seventh ring, giving him one more than Jordan and illustrating part of his legacy without mentioning Jordan- for at least one chapter.

Jordan never won a title before or after Scottie. In fact, Pippen came closer to winning a title without Jordan than Jordan did without Pippen. Just saying.

I hope Pippen will be remembered for what he was- one of the game’s all time versatile players, a historical defender and bona fide star. An all time great. A player who could get you 20-8-7 per night while locking down the opponent’s best player on defense.

I have a feeling some won’t look at his career the way I do. Most will remember him as a sidekick, a player who accomplished what he did due to the fact that he balled with the best ever.

I hope he gets his due.

I hope this isn't turning into another 1000 page Pippen argument thread like the one I made last summer.

If this is the case, then the mods should UNLOCK my legendary Pippen threads of 2011. :shrug:

I will :clap: only because this is the most readable post I've ever seen you make.

 

[brett05]

Just because someone is the greatest ever at some sport doesn't mean he's the one you would want to start a franchise with.

 

[Deng Defense Force]

Scottie Pippen Disapproves Of Conan's Jacket @ TeamCoco.com

 

[FirstTimer]

When people discuss Scottie Pippen’s career and legacy during his 17 NBA seasons, it’s impossible not to mention his running mate Michael Jordan. Sure, Pippen played Robin to Jordan’s Batman. Most players would have. I disagree with people who feel Pippen’s hall of fame career was only due to the fact that he played opposite to Jordan. In my opinion, Pippen would have been a hall of fame caliber player for any team, in any system, under any coach in any era.

That's an incredibly tough call and impossible to determine. Pippen was a small college player who ended up teaming up with the greatest player of all time pushing him every day in practice. Would Pippen have been pushed to excel and reach his full potential playing along side Steve Smith? I don't know.

Lots of anecdotal memories of Pippen.

That's great and all but it really doesn't prove the authors thesis. Describing what Pippen did in Phil Jackson's system doesn't really prove what he could have/would have done outside of Jackson's system. The author isn't showing any cross over correlations to other players, systems, etc.

Jordan would still be the best player of all time with or without Pippen. Jordan would still have multiple championships to his credit. But would he have six? I’m not sure Jordan would be wearing six rings without having Pippen be the player he was.

Somewhat fair point but still misses the mark and doesn't prove the thesis. Would Larry Bird have all his titles if Kevin McHale wasn't the player he was? Likely not. Does that elevate McHale above where people currently perceive him? Likely not. While it's a fair point that Jordan may not have 6 titles with out Pippen..it really doesn't prove anything.

Maybe Michael needed Scottie more so than Scottie needed Michael? When Jordan bolted the NBA in 1993 to pursue a baseball career, Pippen became the Bulls’ unquestioned star and should have won the league MVP award during the ’93-94 season. Without Jordan, The Pippen-led Bulls won 55 games and took a tough Knicks team to seven games in the Eastern conference semi-finals. Pippen wasn’t able to beat that Knicks team without Jordan. I’m not sure Jordan would have been able to either without Pippen.

Pretty stupid/nebulous reasoning here.

You can't above say that Jordan still would have been the GOAT with no Pippen then at the same time insinuate Pippen benefited Jordan more than Jordan benefited Pippen. The two ideas don't mesh. I'm not sure how Pippen losing the the Knicks in the ECSF proves anything really, because for one it's not really an accomplishment and secondly we don't have a fair Jordan comparison using that similar Bulls team.

His 10 NBA All-defensive team honors and 8 All-Defensive first team awards are each one shy of the all time record.

Guess who holds the all time record?

MJeff.

Conveniently the author leaves that out.

Those accomplishments in my opinion would still have been achieved with or without playing opposite to Jordan.

Based on what?

Again, don’t think I’m saying that Pippen was better than Jordan. That would make this post even more irrelevant. I’m just saying it’s closer than you might think. Jordan was the face of sports across the globe, but no player can win championships alone. Certainly not six of them. You can’t win six championships by yourself, even if you’re Michael Jordan.

No one ever said or implied Jordan won titles on his own. This paragraph means nothing and proves no point.

In 1986-87 the Bulls won 40 games with Jordan playing all 82 and averaging 37.1 points per game. That was the year before Pippen was on the team. Jordan alone couldn’t help a poor supporting cast finish the season above 500. What happened the year Pippen arrived? The Bulls had a 10-game improvement and finished the ’87-88 season with a 50-32 record and would continue to improve each year.

Pretty bad logic here.

Pippen didn't even start a game his rookie year and finished with about the 8th most minutes played per game on the team behind Horace Grant and just barely ahead of Rory Sparrow. The author, based on the Bulls that year would have had an easier time proving Horace Grant meant more to the Bulls than Pippen did. Or the mid season addition of Sam Vincent. Simply looking at when Pippen was drafted and looking at next year's record is sloppy work and ignores reality.

Jordan never won a title before or after Scottie. In fact, Pippen came closer to winning a title without Jordan than Jordan did without Pippen. Just saying.

Pretty stupid statement. Pippen never had to play with shithouse Bulls teams like Jordan did and in Jordan's aged twilight years he had to play for the Wizards and couldn't team up with a team like the Blazers.





In the end..

Posting an article from BleacherReport sucks.

Author also needs to use spellcheck.

 

[FirstTimer]

Just because someone is the greatest ever at some sport doesn't mean he's the one you would want to start a franchise with.

In some other sports maybe yes...but in an individually driven sport like basketball where one player can make a hell of a lot of difference.....I think it'd be pretty tough logically to NOT start a team with the greatest player ever.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

wait..jordan would have less titles without pippen?

NO WAYZ

 

[Diddy1122]

**** YOU ALL!!!!!

Fucking idiots that probably didn't ever see Pip play in his prime.......

Guess some just don't appreciate the greatness.

SOMTIMES YOU GUYS DISCUST ME.....I am very very offended right now.

Don't open your potty mouths again in my presence.

:derbulls:

No one questions how great Pippen was. I've followed him his entire career from the moment we traded Olden Polynice to Seattle for him. But he is NOT in the same league as players like MJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Shaq, Barkley, Hakeem, Kareem, Chamberlain, Big O, Jerry West...I could go on & on. All these players should be taken ahead of Pip. That's not a slam against Pip either. He's one of the 50 greatest all-time for good reasons. But picking him ahead of any of those guys I mentioned is insanely stupid.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Just because someone is the greatest ever at some sport doesn't mean he's the one you would want to start a franchise with.

this isn't baseball

 

[scottiepippen1994]

That's an incredibly tough call and impossible to determine. Pippen was a small college player who ended up teaming up with the greatest player of all time pushing him every day in practice. Would Pippen have been pushed to excel and reach his full potential playing along side Steve Smith? I don't know.



That's great and all but it really doesn't prove the authors thesis. Describing what Pippen did in Phil Jackson's system doesn't really prove what he could have/would have done outside of Jackson's system. The author isn't showing any cross over correlations to other players, systems, etc.





Somewhat fair point but still misses the mark and doesn't prove the thesis. Would Larry Bird have all his titles if Kevin McHale wasn't the player he was? Likely not. Does that elevate McHale above where people currently perceive him? Likely not. While it's a fair point that Jordan may not have 6 titles with out Pippen..it really doesn't prove anything.


Pretty stupid/nebulous reasoning here.

You can't above say that Jordan still would have been the GOAT with no Pippen then at the same time insinuate Pippen benefited Jordan more than Jordan benefited Pippen. The two ideas don't mesh. I'm not sure how Pippen losing the the Knicks in the ECSF proves anything really, because for one it's not really an accomplishment and secondly we don't have a fair Jordan comparison using that similar Bulls team.




Guess who holds the all time record?

MJeff.

Conveniently the author leaves that out.


Based on what?



No one ever said or implied Jordan won titles on his own. This paragraph means nothing and proves no point.


Pretty bad logic here.

Pippen didn't even start a game his rookie year and finished with about the 8th most minutes played per game on the team behind Horace Grant and just barely ahead of Rory Sparrow. The author, based on the Bulls that year would have had an easier time proving Horace Grant meant more to the Bulls than Pippen did. Or the mid season addition of Sam Vincent. Simply looking at when Pippen was drafted and looking at next year's record is sloppy work and ignores reality.








Pretty stupid statement. Pippen never had to play with shithouse Bulls teams like Jordan did and in Jordan's aged twilight years he had to play for the Wizards and couldn't team up with a team like the Blazers.





In the end..

Posting an article from BleacherReport sucks.

Author also needs to use spellcheck.

I wasn't going to reveal my identity on other sites, but in this case in which you question my intelligents, that is some of my rare work that I did last year on 3 different sites during the time of the banned 2011 10000 plus page pippen thread last year that broke records.
I don't have much time to write many articles because I'm too busy arguing with ignorant haters like yourself on CCS.
But when I take the time and do, I don't **** around.

Go see Karl Malone and argue with him so he can laugh at you, or pound your head into the ground like a nail.

 

[Diddy1122]

in this case in which you question my intelligents

Usually if you want to show someone how intelligent you are, knowing how to spell the word correctly goes a long way to supporting that claim.