pediatricians refusing service

[TSD]

I can certainly see why parents are anti vaccine though. They are looking for answers, they feel helpless and that just happens to be what they latched on to. I mean if I had a kid and it had a disability or disease I know I'd want answers. Even if it was "it is just random" but they really have no answers on autism.

I understand, but this isnt like, not feeding your kid creamed corn cuz it might cause cancer.



We are talking the possibility of your kid catching something truely life threatening based on your decision.



Sometimes there are no answers and you just have to accept that. We dont know everything unfortunately we have to leave it at that.



Alot of these people think vaccines are the cause of all the major diseases today, cancer, heart disease etc etc. Their reasoning? "People didnt get cancer or have heart attacks prior to the advent of vaccines". They are right, people died of "Dropsy" and just fell ill and died. There was always cancer and heart disease, but there wasnt always a name for them. I have a book on the history of disease, and it points to many famous people in history who died of unknown causes at the time, but based on their symptoms was believed to be some form of cancer or another today.



They freak out about what is in vaccines. Have you looked on a box of just about any processed food? Oh no theres mouse brains in the vaccine! well do mouse brains cause autism? Or theres MERCURY IN VACCINES! theres probably more mercury in your subway tuna fish sandwich.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Why is the not the other side of this story ever discussed?



What I mean is, let's say a family of several children does not have their children immunized and one of them contracts something serious. That child then becomes a carrier infecting not only the children of the family but maybe even start an epidemic.



Sometimes the selfish crowd can have an impact on everyone. While I fall in the middle of this debate there is a part of me that believes that is far more good and more healthy people because of the vaccinations then the minority that may suffer some long term negative affects.

 

[TSD]

Why is the not the other side of this story ever discussed?



What I mean is, let's say a family of several children does not have their children immunized and one of them contracts something serious. That child then becomes a carrier infecting not only the children of the family but maybe even start an epidemic.



Sometimes the selfish crowd can have an impact on everyone. While I fall in the middle of this debate there is a part of me that believes that is far more good and more healthy people because of the vaccinations then the minority that may suffer some long term negative affects.

Very Kantian of you. I agree. Even if there were, a proven link to vaccines and any number of negative side effects, by population the risk is worth it.



People fail to realize the non-immunized can still **** up the whole thing. There is still the possibility immunized people CAN get diseases they have been immunized for. If you are already sick with the flu or some reason or another your immune system is currently not in top form, you can get a disease from a carrier. This is why you will still get occational outbreaks, which the other argument likes to use as "herd immunity" not working. Any outbreaks of disease that people are normally immunized for are generally caused by someone who is not. Thats the whole point of herd immunity. Also, vaccines are the reason these small outbreaks dont turn into epidemics.



I think what annoys me the most, is alot of these people are essentially relying on others vaccinating their children to keep their child healthy. Do these people really want to see what would happen with a whole generation of non-immunized individuals? These diseases arent gone. Alot of people would be attending alot more funerals.



Im curious about all the shit the Army injected into me though. Its creepy I havent had so much as a cold since I got my first round.

 

[IceHogsFan]

I think what annoys me the most, is alot of these people are essentially relying on others vaccinating their children to keep their child healthy. Do these people really want to see what would happen with a whole generation of non-immunized individuals? These diseases arent gone. Alot of people would be attending alot more funerals.

+1

 

[supraman]

here's the data that will keep it alive or put it rest (sadly I dont have said data). The autism diagnosis rates among not immunized children.

 

[TSD]

here's the data that will keep it alive or put it rest (sadly I dont have said data). The autism diagnosis rates among not immunized children.

Again, correlation is not causation. Its difficult to make that case when the vast majority of children DO get immunized. You are comparing a backyard pond to lake michigan. Of course you are going to get higher autism rates in a larger population.



There are simply far more variables than just vaccination in the majority population than there is in the non-immunized minority.



you could use anything in a childs upbringing, being breast fed or not, what types of foods they ate, where they lived, etc etc etc and produce the same kind of data, when its more than likely mere coincidence.



Its not even close to saying, eating a high fat diet predisposes you to heart disease, we have scientific data to back that up.





If you were to ask me what causes autism, I do know, but were i to guess, I would simply guess they were just born that way. I dont see parents blaming having a kid with a face only a mother can love on vaccines.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Again, correlation is not causation. Its difficult to make that case when the vast majority of children DO get immunized. You are comparing a backyard pond to lake michigan. Of course you are going to get higher autism rates in a larger population.



There are simply far more variables than just vaccination in the majority population than there is in the non-immunized minority.



you could use anything in a childs upbringing, being breast fed or not, what types of foods they ate, where they lived, etc etc etc and produce the same kind of data, when its more than likely mere coincidence.



Its not even close to saying, eating a high fat diet predisposes you to heart disease, we have scientific data to back that up.





If you were to ask me what causes autism, I do know, but were i to guess, I would simply guess they were just born that way. I dont see parents blaming having a kid with a face only a mother can love on vaccines.

You're missing the point. If you had a special needs child you'd understand.

 

[TSD]

You're missing the point. If you had a special needs child you'd understand.

How am I missing the point?



In that if I had a special needs child I would need to have someone/something to blame for it and I may as well just latch on to anything and focus my rage?



Any number of things could be to blame or nothing could be to blame. A person could blame their own genetics, or maybe mom shouldnt have had that one glass of wine or cigarette while pregnant. Who the hell knows.



But saying a series of shots almost every child born in america gets, is responsible for a tiny population by comparison of autistic children, with NO scientific data to support it, is ludicrous.

 

[Kerfuffle]

How am I missing the point?



In that if I had a special needs child I would need to have someone/something to blame for it and I may as well just latch on to anything and focus my rage?



Any number of things could be to blame or nothing could be to blame. A person could blame their own genetics, or maybe mom shouldnt have had that one glass of wine or cigarette while pregnant. Who the hell knows.



But saying a series of shots almost every child born in america gets, is responsible for a tiny population by comparison of autistic children, with NO scientific data to support it, is ludicrous.

You're missing the point in that it's easy to judge and be an expert when you aren't in that situation personally. I thought Supraman's earlier post was a correct assessment on what parents with autistic children feel - he said it better than I can here.

 

[puckjim]

You're missing the point in that it's easy to judge and be an expert when you aren't in that situation personally. I thought Supraman's earlier post was a correct assessment on what parents with autistic children feel - he said it better than I can here.

Then why not blame Tootsie Pops? I believe there's just as much scientific evidence linking those to autism.

 

[TSD]

Then why not blame Tootsie Pops? I believe there's just as much scientific evidence linking those to autism.

Thats the whole point I was trying to make to him. Since the whole report that started the craze was proven to be fraudulent and science hasnt backed up since. Why blame vaccines.