Phil Jackson

[Newskoolbulls]

Do you think he loves his Bulls coaching stint more than his Lakers one? I know he had his run ins with Krause and Reinsdorf with us but it was nothing like his run ins with Shaq and Kobe, not to mention he lost twice with the Lakers in the finals.

 

[charity stripe]

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

I think he felt comfortable in LA because he knew he would not get fired because of Jenie Buss.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

sorry to go OT but did you hear Barkley say he can see Odom getting between 10-20 million next season :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Diddy1122]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

I think he felt comfortable in LA because he knew he would not get fired because of Jenie Buss.

I agree there. It always helps when you're shtupn the bosses daughter. Plus LA is the perfect place for his New Age lifestyle. I'm sure theres more Buddhists out there than here.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

That hat that his kids made for him was ugly. Anyway Phil never looks happy when coaching. With the Bulls he was always atleast cracking smiles on the bench.

 

[TheStig]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

I think he felt comfortable in LA because he knew he would not get fired because of Jenie Buss.

I think he likes LA because he gets Jenie Buss every night and doesn't have Krause running around causing problems.

Edit: Phil is also getting paid the big bucks now. No one on the dynasty teams really made money till the 2nd three peat and even then it wasn't the first year. MJ and Rodman got paid the second year and Pippen didn't get paid till he left. Jackson has always made top 5 money in LA.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

TheStig wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

I think he felt comfortable in LA because he knew he would not get fired because of Jenie Buss.

I think he likes LA because he gets Jenie Buss every night and doesn't have Krause running around causing problems.

Edit: Phil is also getting paid the big bucks now. No one on the dynasty teams really made money till the 2nd three peat and even then it wasn't the first year. MJ and Rodman got paid the second year and Pippen didn't get paid till he left. Jackson has always made top 5 money in LA.

Different times money wise now from than.

 

[TheStig]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Newskoolbulls wrote:

charity stripe wrote:

He's always seemed more comfortable in LA.

But he's had frustrations with coaching dumb players like Bynum, Odumb, and young Kobe.

I think he felt comfortable in LA because he knew he would not get fired because of Jenie Buss.

I think he likes LA because he gets Jenie Buss every night and doesn't have Krause running around causing problems.

Edit: Phil is also getting paid the big bucks now. No one on the dynasty teams really made money till the 2nd three peat and even then it wasn't the first year. MJ and Rodman got paid the second year and Pippen didn't get paid till he left. Jackson has always made top 5 money in LA.

True but MJ, Pip and Rodman all made less in the first of the 3 peat than 4 million a year, the very next yr Rodman made almost 4x and Jordan almost 10x. JR was cheap even back then and really got pip in a nasty contract that Pip wanted.
Different times money wise now from than.

 

[Diddy1122]

JR was & always will be a cheapskate & Krause, the angry troll, basically ruined the team. Phil left because he couldn't work with Krause anymore. Pippen hated him too. MJ would have come back if Phil did, but he didn't & that troll Krause felt the only way the Bulls could move forward after Jordan was to get rid of everybody & start from scratch. It was the worst decision in the history of the franchise & we as a fanbase truly suffered for it.

God I hate Krause! He couldn't lure FA's to save his life! Remember the amazing summer of 2000? Duncan, McGrady, Hill, Eddie Jones, Tim Thomas all chose to stay or go elsewhere & we get Brad Miller & Ron Mercer, then he drafts Marcus Fizer & Jamal Crawford. And has the brilliance to trade Elton Brand for a HS waif of a center the next season during the draft. I give him credit for trading for Pip in the 87 draft. But he never got another star player. Jordan made every player around him better. It wasn't Krause being an amazing scout or a wiz at trades.

 

[houheffna]

If I am not mistaken, MJ was in the last year of an 8 year contract, and I believe somehow, he got all of that money, even when he retired for that brief time. Jordan prided himself on never bitching about money, saying that he would play for the money he signed for. Rodman was at the end of a contract he didn't sign here. When both were FA they both got paid well. Pippen did what he did to himself. That was good business on Reinsdorf's part.

 

[dunkside.com]

Diddy1122 wrote:

I give him credit for trading for Pip in the 87 draft. But he never got another star player. Jordan made every player around him better. It wasn't Krause being an amazing scout or a wiz at trades.

except getting dennis rodman for will freakin perdue (did you even remember his name ? it was a bigger steal than gasol for kwame).

he also drafted horace grant and tony kukoc.

and he promoted phil jackson as coach.

it's true he f**ked up after jordan left (and even before) but you gotta give the man some credit for building two 3peat teams.

 

[Diddy1122]

dunkside.com wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

I give him credit for trading for Pip in the 87 draft. But he never got another star player. Jordan made every player around him better. It wasn't Krause being an amazing scout or a wiz at trades.

except getting dennis rodman for will freakin perdue (did you even remember his name ? it was a bigger steal than gasol for kwame).

he also drafted horace grant and tony kukoc.

and he promoted phil jackson as coach.

it's true he f**ked up after jordan left (and even before) but you gotta give the man some credit for building two 3peat teams.

I'll give ya Phil. But I wouldn't call the Rodman trade a steal. Or a bigger steal than Gasol for Kwame. It was a risk at the time. He was like Artest. Weirder & weirder behavior. He headbutted Stacey King. Did you even remember that? Had 20 different hair colors, & was known to party every night. It coulda went bad if it wasn't for Phil. And Jack Haley.

 

[Shakes]

Speaking of Phil, does he retire on top now, or go for one more? He's said previously he might not coach out his contract because of his health, so with only one year to go, surely now is the time to quit if he wants to go out on top?

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

Do you think he loves his Bulls coaching stint more than his Lakers one? I know he had his run ins with Krause and Reinsdorf with us but it was nothing like his run ins with Shaq and Kobe, not to mention he lost twice with the Lakers in the finals.

Both places he had the benefit of the leagues premier player (Jordan then Shaq AND Kobe in their primes). I don't want to dis Phil cause he has 10 rings (at least 11 as a ooach AND player) but maybe I just want to see him coach when his best player is a guy like Michael Redd, let alone not THE premier player.

In any case congratulations to Phil for this accomplishment (like he'll read this) lol

 

[dunkside.com]

Diddy1122 wrote:

I'll give ya Phil. But I wouldn't call the Rodman trade a steal. Or a bigger steal than Gasol for Kwame. It was a risk at the time. He was like Artest. Weirder & weirder behavior. He headbutted Stacey King. Did you even remember that? Had 20 different hair colors, & was known to party every night. It coulda went bad if it wasn't for Phil. And Jack Haley.

First, the hair colors ... that's BS. When did haircolor prevent anyone from playing good basketball.

Second, the trade happened after the Spurs were destroyed by the Rockets in the WCF. Go and watch that series. I just did a couple of month ago. Hakeem absolutely destroyed Robinson. Rodman played pretty well, even if he showed some attitude. He was actually trying really really hard.

he had 20, 8 (in just 17 min), 14, 19, 12 and 17 rebounds and played some really good D. the truth is robinson just got destroyed by hakeem, but he was the face of the franchise and they needed a scape goat. that team underachieved and someone had to be responsible. rodman was the ideal scape goat. they could blame it on "character issues" and this way they won't have to explain why the mvp got schooled.

of course catching hakeem in god mode didn't help, but blaming the loss on rodman was a dick move. and, turns out, a bad move for them, cause they traded him at 2 cents a dollar.

PS: i'd headbutt stacey king now just to make him stfu. if someone headbutts a bulls player doesn't mean he's automatically crazy or should be treated like a leper. don't forget rodman did the same things or even worse to frank bricowsky in the '96 finals, but i bet at the time you loved every minute of it. barkley fought with a bunch of people too, but i doubt you'd trade him for will f**king perdue for that.

in the end, if you consider the results of the trade, rodman was much more of a steal than gasol. so far 3peat trumps a title and a finals appearance.

 

[Kush77]

Jerry Krause had a good night in 1987. But I don't give him as much credit for the titles as some do.

Those titles were because of Michael Jordan, bottom line. Sure, Jerry put parts around him, but there are other GM's who could have put parts around the greatest player ever.

Jerry knows the truth. Jordan is the reason for the titles and he didn't draft Jordan. That's why Jerry was so desperate to break up the team, so he could prove that he could build a title contender on his own. How did that work out?

Krause did draft Kukoc in the second round. But at the same time made the the decision to pay him more than Scottie Pippen. You can say whatever about Pippen signing the bad deal in 1991, but if the Bulls were smart they would have kept their championship-caliber players happy. But they were business first, thus they had poor relationships with their players.

As for the Rodman trade. I don't give Krause credit for that. S.A. was giving Dennis Rodman away. It's like people that give Jim Hendry credit for trading Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee as it was some great fleecing. It was a salary dump by the Marlins.

 

[houheffna]

Pippen should thank Krause for bringing Kukoc over. Kukoc saved Pippen's career in Chicago.

Krause did draft Kukoc in the second round. But at the same time made the the decision to pay him more than Scottie Pippen. You can say whatever about Pippen signing the bad deal in 1991, but if the Bulls were smart they would have kept their championship-caliber players happy. But they were business first, thus they had poor relationships with their players.

As for the Rodman trade. I don't give Krause credit for that. S.A. was giving Dennis Rodman away. It's like people that give Jim Hendry credit for trading Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee as it was some great fleecing. It was a salary dump by the Marlins.

What did Pippen's unhappiness cost the Bulls? They don't have to keep him happy, they just have to pay him. And that is what they did. They actually tried to renegotiate, but Pippen didn't like what they were offering.

As far as the Rodman thing, other teams could have taken him, credit Krause for making the moves he had to make. Derrek Lee was an all-star caliber first baseman. Other teams could have taken Lee, but the Cubs got him, not because the franchise like the Cubs. I guess Bears getting Cutler was a fluke too? I don't like Krause, but you can't take away from the few things he did successfully.

 

[Kush77]

houheffna wrote:

Pippen should thank Krause for bringing Kukoc over. Kukoc saved Pippen's career in Chicago.

Krause did draft Kukoc in the second round. But at the same time made the the decision to pay him more than Scottie Pippen. You can say whatever about Pippen signing the bad deal in 1991, but if the Bulls were smart they would have kept their championship-caliber players happy. But they were business first, thus they had poor relationships with their players.

As for the Rodman trade. I don't give Krause credit for that. S.A. was giving Dennis Rodman away. It's like people that give Jim Hendry credit for trading Hee Seop Choi for Derrek Lee as it was some great fleecing. It was a salary dump by the Marlins.

What did Pippen's unhappiness cost the Bulls? They don't have to keep him happy, they just have to pay him. And that is what they did. They actually tried to renegotiate, but Pippen didn't like what they were offering.

As far as the Rodman thing, other teams could have taken him, credit Krause for making the moves he had to make. Derrek Lee was an all-star caliber first baseman. Other teams could have taken Lee, but the Cubs got him, not because the franchise like the Cubs. I guess Bears getting Cutler was a fluke too? I don't like Krause, but you can't take away from the few things he did successfully.

Keeping Pippen happy, Jordan happy, Jackson happy could have meant a title in 1999. That's what it could have resulted in. When exactly did they try to renegotiate with Pippen??

Other teams could have got Rodman but the Bulls were the only ones willing to take the risk because they had Jackson and Jordan to keep him in line. So I don't give Krause credit for that like he made some great move, that trade fell into place nicely for him because S.A. was willing to give him away for nothing.

And the Lee trade was a salary dump, don't try to tell me Hendry made some great move. The Marlins didn't want, or had no intentions of extending Lee, therefore the Cubs got him. Salary dump. And Derek Lee wasn't an all-star caliber first baseman. He's had 1 year worthy of an all-star season and that was 2005. And what other teams could have got Lee before 2004. There's lots of very good first baseman in the league in 2004, so it's not like there were a ton of teams out there looking for Lee's services. Either teams didn't want to give Lee his eventual extension, or they already had a first baseman.

And no, Cutler wasn't a fluke, the Bears gave up a good amount to get him.

Again, when you have the greatest player off all time there are several GM's that could put pieces around him to win a title.

Tell how the post-Jordan era worked for ole Jerry?? I mean, if he was so great at finding pieces.

I didn't take away the FEW things he did successfully. Read my post. I said he had a great night in 1987 and drafted Kukoc in the second round. But I don't give him all this credit for making an obvious trade that fell in his lap.

 

[houheffna]

I really think the Bulls were on their last leg in 1998. Pippen would have been 33, Jordan would have been 36 and Rodman 38 by the time the playoffs come around in 1999. I am glad they went out with a blaze of glory and hoped Jordan would have stayed retired after 1998. Again, to totally crap on Krause is unnecessary. I don't think he was great by any means, he did just enough to get by, but he was the one who did it. And don't underestimate the drafting of Kukoc, Kukoc was the second best clutch player on the team. Teams paid good money to get those players over here from Europe.

Matter of fact, he saved their ass in Game 7 against Indiana in 1998. That is when I started to notice a team at the end of the line. They disbanded just in time. Plus, Phil Jackson said that 98-99 should not have counted and pretty much dismissed San Antonio as fake champions because it was a strike-shortened season.

I just think that blaming Reinsdorf and Krause for all Bulls problems without looking at both sides is unfair. Krause could definitely be a butthole, but again what little he did, should be recognized, and it wasn't that much (after Pippen).