Polian on the cost of JG today

[nc0gnet0]

I operate on the assumption that most good QBs aren't on the market because teams don't let them get to FA. We saw that this year with Cousins getting the tag. So all you have done is come up with a hypothetical that I fundamentally think is bullshit. I don't think Cousins or Stafford would be available and Bradford is fucking terrible. I also don't know who these mystery QBs will be next year.

You are literally introducing more unknown parameters into the equation and pretending like they are facts.

Again........

Just what kind of "long term" contract do you think JG will get? It has to be at least 40 mill guaranteed for it to even begin to make any sense (remember he as already signed his tender, he is guaranteed 25 mil (for ONE FUCKING YEAR).

And if a trade partner can be found, just exactly what compensation would you expect them to trade to NE, considering they will have to pay this "long term contract" as well? You have just pissed away JG's 2017 year that payed him a mere 1.1 mil so you lost that crucial year to defer a significant portion of the signing bonus.

Answer the effing question!

 

[remydat]

Again........

Just what kind of "long term" contract do you think JG will get? It has to be at least 40 mill guaranteed for it to even begin to make any sense (remember he as already signed his tender, he is guaranteed 25 mil (for ONE FUCKING YEAR).

And if a trade partner can be found, just exactly what compensation would you expect them to trade to NE, considering they will have to pay this "long term contract" as well? You have just pissed away JG's 2017 year that payed him a mere 1.1 mil so you lost that crucial year to defer a significant portion of the signing bonus.

Answer the effing question!

Your logic here is flawed. 35 million over 5 years is 7 million a year. If that is all SB then it is likely the earliest they would even think about cutting him is after year 3. So let's say his base non guaranteed salaries over the first 3 years are 7, 8, 9 million per year. That's another 24 million that technically isn't guaranteed that he is almost certain to be paid because they can't cut him those first 3 years without taking a massive cap hit. We see this all the time with contracts.

So fundamentally, no it doesn't have to at least be 40 million guaranteed. It just has to be structured in a way that the guaranteed money makes it cost prohibitive to cut him for the first 3 years of the contract or so. It's pretty basic that when you sign a long term deal with a decent chunk of guaranteed salary that a team can't just cut you right away so any non guaranteed money in the early years of the contract are pretty much money in the bank.

I don't know what compensation to expect because his supposed compensation is all over the place right now. We have people guessing anywhere from 1st round picks to 3rd round picks. I would think it's maybe half a round to a round less than what he would command this year but that depends on how desperate the team is. Right now you have a bunch of shitty teams rumored to be trading for him. It's entirely conceivable that next year a team like the Texans would be looking for a QB that they think is the missing piece to a deep playoff run and they will be willing to offer up more because they are drafting at a spot where they can't get a top QB. We just saw Minny pay a shit ton for a guy because thought they had a SB caliber D and all they needed was a QB when Bridgewater goes down. Hell after next year, Minny might be shopping for another QB.

So the compensation all depends on the teams looking for a QB.

I should add this assumes he doesn't play next year. If he plays next year due to a Brady injury and he excels then Pats might actually get more as he'd have a larger sample size.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Your logic here is flawed. 35 million over 5 years is 7 million a year. If that is all SB then it is likely the earliest they would even think about cutting him is after year 3. So let's say his base non guaranteed salaries over the first 3 years are 7, 8, 9 million per year. That's another 24 million that technically isn't guaranteed that he is almost certain to be paid because they can't cut him those first 3 years without taking a massive cap hit. We see this all the time with contracts.

So fundamentally, no it doesn't have to at least be 40 million guaranteed. It just has to be structured in a way that the guaranteed money makes it cost prohibitive to cut him for the first 3 years of the contract or so. It's pretty basic that when you sign a long term deal with a decent chunk of guaranteed salary that a team can't just cut you right away so any non guaranteed money in the early years of the contract are pretty much money in the bank.

I don't know what compensation to expect because his supposed compensation is all over the place right now. We have people guessing anywhere from 1st round picks to 3rd round picks. I would think it's maybe half a round to a round less than what he would command this year but that depends on how desperate the team is. Right now you have a bunch of shitty teams rumored to be trading for him. It's entirely conceivable that next year a team like the Texans would be looking for a QB that they think is the missing piece to a deep playoff run and they will be willing to offer up more because they are drafting at a spot where they can't get a top QB. We just saw Minny pay a shit ton for a guy because thought they had a SB caliber D and all they needed was a QB when Bridgewater goes down. Hell after next year, Minny might be shopping for another QB.

So the compensation all depends on the teams looking for a QB.

So, you Mr. Jimmy G's agent, are going to advise your client, rather than to play for one year and make 25 mil, to sign a contract that only guarantees 35 mil over 4 years? You do realize neither JG nor his agent, has any control over how the team chooses to allocate his signing bonus, right? Give me an example of a contract that is what you say.......

 

[remydat]

Signing bonuses by definition have to be allocated evenly over the life of the contract. If you want to play with the allocations you would have to do a roster bonus or something else. So JG nor the team has control over SB allocation so your point about them is irrelevant. The CBA controls the allocation.

Further signing bonuses get paid upfront because as the name implies they are a bonus for signing so his total comp in his first year would be the 7 million plus the 35 million signing bonus so a total of 42 million his first year. 42 > 25 last I checked. The allocation over 5 years is just for salary cap purposes but the money is paid upfront.

It's funny how you guys keep claiming I don't understand the cap and Rory didn't know you can't just sit out a year and still get credit for having been tagged and you don't know how signing bonuses work.

http://www.denverpost.com/2012/03/21/nfl-signing-bonuses-are-prorated-for-salary-cap-accounting/

And no I would not advise JG to sign for just 35 guaranteed. I would start out higher than what Osweiler got because the cap is increasing again. I may be willing to settle for 35 million if it's all SB for the reasons above. My client gets paid all of it in the first year and it all but guarantees he won't be cut for 3 years or so meaning he gets those base salaries as well.

I was merely pointing out it doesn't have to be 40 million as it all depends on whether the guaranteed money is in signing bonus or roster bonus. The less guaranteed money then the more I want it to be SB due to basic time value of money concepts.

 

[iueyedoc]

Signing bonuses by definition have to be allocated evenly over the life of the contract.

By definition you are incorrect. The signing bonus is spread evenly over the first 5 years of the contract. Cutlers $5M bonus that is $1M for the 1st 5 yrs of his 7 yr contract is a perfect example.



So there's that.

It's funny how you guys keep claiming I don't understand the cap and Rory didn't know you can't just sit out a year and still get credit for having been tagged and you don't know how signing bonuses work.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I think there is one thing everyone can agree on. If Jimmy is traded this offseason, his value will be higher than it would be if he started 2018 on the tag. That is assuming he doesn't play in 2017 and our opinions on his talent level is the same.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Signing bonuses by definition have to be allocated evenly over the life of the contract. If you want to play with the allocations you would have to do a roster bonus or something else. So JG nor the team has control over SB allocation so your point about them is irrelevant. The CBA controls the allocation.

It's funny how you guys keep claiming I don't understand the cap and Rory didn't know you can't just sit out a year and still get credit for having been tagged and you don't know how signing bonuses work.

Pfffft!! LOL. Ok I should have said guaranteed money and not SB, big whoopee. Do you seriously want to argue such a trivial thing? I can allocate as much as I want to the roster bonus the first year, and deduct that from the SB, but it still gets paid to the player the first year, so the player could care less.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I think there is one thing everyone can agree on. If Jimmy is traded this offseason, his value will be a lot higher than it would be if he started 2018 on the tag. That is assuming he doesn't play in 2017 and our opinions on his talent level is the same.

fify but yes

 

[Bearly]

Pfffft!! LOL. Ok I should have said guaranteed money and not SB, big whoopee. Do you seriously want to argue such a trivial thing? I can allocate as much as I want to the roster bonus the first year, and deduct that from the SB, but it still gets paid to the player the first year, so the player could care less.

Yes, yes he does if it's some minutia he can score a point on.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Further signing bonuses get paid upfront because as the name implies they are a bonus for signing so his total comp in his first year would be the 7 million plus the 35 million signing bonus so a total of 42 million his first year. 42 > 25 last I checked. The allocation over 5 years is just for salary cap purposes but the money is paid upfront.

That is a useless point. The argument centers around which scenario is in JG's best interest long term, and the best would be a scenario in which he can earn the most money over a specified period of time.

And no I would not advise JG to sign for just 35 guaranteed. I would start out higher than what Osweiler got because the cap is increasing again. I may be willing to settle for 35 million if it's all SB for the reasons above. My client gets paid all of it in the first year and it all but guarantees he won't be cut for 3 years or so meaning he gets those base salaries as well.

I was merely pointing out it doesn't have to be 40 million as it all depends on whether the guaranteed money is in signing bonus or roster bonus. The less guaranteed money then the more I want it to be SB due to basic time value of money concepts.

The crux of your argument is you were going to come up with a contract over 4-5 years that only had 40 mill guaranteed, but was cost preventative for the team to cut him early on in the contract. And that was somehow beneficial to Jimmy G. I am waiting for an example of such a contract. Spare me the vague BS and give me hard numbers please, and then go on to explain how it is better than him earning 25 mil in the first year and testing FA again in 2018. That alone should net him 40 mil in two years, and anything he can make after that icing on the cake.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yes, yes he does if it's some minutia he can score a point on.

It's a classic Remy re-direct of his original asinine argument that it was somehow in the Pats best interest to not trade JG this year, but to hang on to him and franchise tag him next year. He was losing that battle badly, so now he will try to move the argument to something else to make it appear he actually had a point, which he did not.

 

[WindyCity]

"I think Chicago, it’s going to be Romo or Garoppolo. That’s the sense I get” — @MoveTheSticks on @RichEisenShow

 

[modo]

"I think Chicago, it’s going to be Romo or Garoppolo. That’s the sense I get” — @MoveTheSticks on @RichEisenShow

i sense a shit coming on.......

 

[Les Grossman]

"I think Chicago, it’s going to be Romo or Garoppolo. That’s the sense I get” — @MoveTheSticks on @RichEisenShow

Lol at the eastern Illinois frat connection.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I don't understand this infatuation with Romo, are the Bears in "win now" mode? How does an aging crippled QB figure into a rebuild?

 

[JesusHalasChrist]

I don't understand this infatuation with Romo, are the Bears in "win now" mode? How does and aging crippled QB figure into a rebuild?

Maybe the idea is to trade Tony Romo's shins for Kevin White's spine and clavicle.

 

[WindyCity]

I don't understand this infatuation with Romo, are the Bears in "win now" mode? How does and aging crippled QB figure into a rebuild?

He makes it less embarrassing so that people keep their jobs.

That is all I got.

 

[FirstTimer]

Lol, there is no post from me where I said the above.

JG's agent would be stupid to let JG play under the franchise tag given the uncertainty around whether he is actually a good QB or not and this is without considering the fact said agent would be passing on the commissions he would get from a long term deal

Your above statement was Special person. It became even more Special person once it was found out that his agent advising JG to not play while under the tag would also kill JG getting a year of service time and getting a year closer to a second contract.

I repeat:

JG's agent would be an idiot to advise him to not play under the tag regardless of circumstances.

 

[remydat]

By definition you are incorrect. The signing bonus is spread evenly over the first 5 years of the contract. Cutlers $5M bonus that is $1M for the 1st 5 yrs of his 7 yr contract is a perfect example.



So there's that.

Lol, in my example, I gave a 5 year contract so in referring to that contract, I said the SB has to be spread over the life of the contract. Do you guys honestly just read stuff without thinking about what it means.

 

[bearmick]

I don't understand this infatuation with Romo, are the Bears in "win now" mode? How does an aging crippled QB figure into a rebuild?

I don't get that either. Seems like the least logical move for both parties.