Prediction Time: Who will win the NBA Finals?

[Diddy1122]

The most glaring thing that has stuck out in my mind about this series is how much Dwight Howard needs to develop a 12-15ft jumper. They run the pick & roll a ton & there's absolutely no need for his defender to play up on him. Dwight should take the whole summer & work on his FG & FT shooting with Patrick Chewing.

 

[dougthonus]

Diddy1122 wrote:

The most glaring thing that has stuck out in my mind about this series is how much Dwight Howard needs to develop a 12-15ft jumper. They run the pick & roll a ton & there's absolutely no need for his defender to play up on him. Dwight should take the whole summer & work on his FG & FT shooting with Patrick Chewing.

Eh, I think that's dicey. You don't want Dwight getting used to sitting out shooting jumpers. Instead, just run pick and roll with someone else and leave Howard under the basket fighting for position.

 

[houheffna]

You don't need pick and roll for Howard, you need him to get better in the post. As his post game develops, you have a good chance to be dominant as a team.

 

[Diddy1122]

dougthonus wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

The most glaring thing that has stuck out in my mind about this series is how much Dwight Howard needs to develop a 12-15ft jumper. They run the pick & roll a ton & there's absolutely no need for his defender to play up on him. Dwight should take the whole summer & work on his FG & FT shooting with Patrick Chewing.

Eh, I think that's dicey. You don't want Dwight getting used to sitting out shooting jumpers. Instead, just run pick and roll with someone else and leave Howard under the basket fighting for position.

Well that's the problem, they have no one else to run it with. And look, I don't want Howard shooting jumpers all game either, but if he developed a shot then defenders would have to play up on him & he could use his superior quickness & strength to get to the rim. And I don't think he'd fall in love with jumpers anyway. He loves attacking the rim.

Let's face it the guy is not a polished post player. He scores facing the basket, using his athleticism & strength to get his shot off. And other than dunking the ball or laying it in, does he even have a single go to move, like a baby hook? No. He can't shoot outside of 6ft. For a guy people are so willing to throw the label "Dominant" on, it's amazing that he can be so easily stopped by the likes of Joakim Noah as long as you push him out of the paint.

 

[houheffna]

The problem is Noah cannot keep him out of the paint, they don't need to run pick and roll to win basketball games. Hakeem didn't run pick and rolls, he went to the post, so did Kareem. I think asking him to shoot jumpers would be trying to make him ordinary.

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

The problem is Noah cannot keep him out of the paint, they don't need to run pick and roll to win basketball games. Hakeem didn't run pick and rolls, he went to the post, so did Kareem. I think asking him to shoot jumpers would be trying to make him ordinary.

What? That made no sense. How do you think the Magic get open 3's? By running a motion offense centered around the pick & roll. No one on that team can create their own shot. It's obvious. And Hakeem & Kareem didn't run pick & rolls because they HAD post moves & could SHOOT from outside of 5 ft. And how would Howard shooting jumpers make him ordinary? It would add a much needed facet to his game & would make him more of the "dominant" player that everyone is trying to sell him as.

Oh btw, I was at the Bulls-Magic game when we destroyed them & when Noah wasn't denying the ball by fronting Howard, he used his length to disrupt every shot Howard took & he played awful in the 2nd half because of it. If a guy who's supposed to be "dominant" can be stopped by a player of considerable less size & talent, I'd be hard pressed to compare him to the likes of Shaq.

 

[houheffna]

Howard, gives people fits because of his athleticism and strength. Howard has no ability in the post yet but has to be doubled deep in the post. When the Magic were most successful is when he passes out of those double teams, as in Game 2 of the finals. Other guys can run pick and rolls. You don't tell a center who has yet to develop a post game to start shooting jumpers...would you tell Shaq that?


I also saw a Magic game against the Bulls where Noah looked like a kindergartner. I think its obvious that if Noah had a hard time with Perkins, Howard would have swallowed him without double teams. Having a Howard shoot free throws is better advice than having him spend the summer shooting jumpers, he has to develop a low post game. If Howard starts shooting jumpers but is not focusing on a post game, he will not be as effective. Look around the league, there are lots more big men with jumpers than post games, if jumpshooting big men were all you needed, why do the Bulls need Bosh or Amare? We have two jump shooting big men. Right now Howard has to develop a "go-to move" in the post and everything will open up from there.

 

[Shakes]

I agree Howard has to set the picks, a big (moving) body like his creates a lot of room for the rest of the team. I'm not sure he could develop a jumper though, he's not a good foul shooter, and he's basically got no jumper at all at the moment, so can we realistically expect he'd be able to get good enough to make opponents care about his jumper?

 

[houheffna]

He sets picks now, and damn good ones, but he heads to the basket, why someone would want to turn him into Brad Miller is beyond me...

 

[Shakes]

Well the point obviously wouldn't to shoot the jumper much, just to mix things up and make his game less predictable. At the moment you know he's going to head to the basket because that's the only spot he can score from.

It's really like any player with a mid range jump shot: they're inefficient shots if contested, so the idea isn't to take a heap of them, the idea is to make the other team guard you so you open up other plays.

 

[Diddy1122]

Shakes wrote:

Well the point obviously wouldn't to shoot the jumper much, just to mix things up and make his game less predictable. At the moment you know he's going to head to the basket because that's the only spot he can score from.

It's really like any player with a mid range jump shot: they're inefficient shots if contested, so the idea isn't to take a heap of them, the idea is to make the other team guard you so you open up other plays.

Thank you. That's all I was trying to say Shakes.

 

[Newskoolbulls]

KG in 2010 and 2011 dont forget lmao :laugh:

 

[houheffna]

I would just rather he develop moves in the post, he can get position, he just has no moves, that is what I am trying to say. The jumpshot can come later, but if he wants to make himself unique, he should develop moves in the post.

 

[??? ??????]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVp3DNc9zSk

 

[mlewinth]

houheffna wrote:

He sets picks now, and damn good ones, but he heads to the basket, why someone would want to turn him into Brad Miller is beyond me...

So let me get this straight..if Dwight Howard gets a jump shot, he is Brad Miller? Howard is LIGHTYEARS beyond Miller in both size and stature. His getting a jumpshot would make him a more complete player, which he isint right now. Howard was non-existent offensively before this season. This season he seems to of improved his post hook a bit and some around the basket moves, but through and through he still is not nearly as good offensively as he should be.

From 1996-2003 Shaq was DOMINANT. He could not be stopped. He would score 30+ against EVERYONE, whether there was a good defender on him or not. He was an offensive machine. Dwight Howard is not in the same stratosphere as Shaq offensively. He is MUCH further away from Shaq offensively then Shaq is of Dwight defensively. In his prime, Shaq is all-time top 5. Dwight may not be top 5 in the league right now.

 

[mlewinth]

I would like to clarify one thing. Dwight may very well be top 5 in the league, however, I feel it is certainly not a guarantee and you can make an argument either way. Shaq being top 5 all-time (or the ability to argue that) is far more impressive then arguing if Dwight is even the best today. People tend to overrate players alot who make the finals.

 

[??? ??????]

I think the top 5 in the league is indisputably Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Paul.

I'd rank it right now as:

1. Ben Gordon...I mean Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chris Paul

 

[mlewinth]

dougthonus wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

Eh, I think that's dicey. You don't want Dwight getting used to sitting out shooting jumpers. Instead, just run pick and roll with someone else and leave Howard under the basket fighting for position.

You can't try to tell me that Dwight getting a jumper is a bad thing. The more diverse Dwight's offensive toolset is, the more impossible he is to guard. Right now, you can just pack around Dwight down low and contain him. He has MANY off nights offensivly because of this. If Dwight improved his mid-range game people would guard him from 15 and he could slash on them with his speed, length, athleticizm and size. He would be unstoppable.

That being said, he needs more then a jumper to be a beast offensively. He needs more then 2 post moves.

 

[mlewinth]

??? ?????? wrote:

I think the top 5 in the league is indisputably Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Paul.

I'd rank it right now as:

1. Ben Gordon...I mean Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chris Paul

I would probobly agree with you, however, I think you can make an argument for Carmelo, Bosh, Deron and Danny Granger.

 

[??? ??????]

mlewinth wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

I think the top 5 in the league is indisputably Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Paul.

I'd rank it right now as:

1. Ben Gordon...I mean Lebron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chris Paul

I would probobly agree with you, however, I think you can make an argument for Carmelo, Bosh, Deron and Danny Granger.

Carmelo Anthony had a -2 O-Rtg/D-Rtg differential, despite playing on the second best team in the West. Carmelo Anthony averaged 22.8 points a game, but did it on a mediocre 53.2 TS%. He's clearly not close to being a top 5 player in the league.

Chris Bosh scores 2.1 more points per a game than Howard, but does it on 3.1 TS% less efficiency. Howard's is worlds better as a defender.

Deron Williams averaged less points on a lesser efficiency than Howard. He did have 10.7 APG, but he's been a poor defender, never having a D-Rtg better than 110 in his career.

Danny Granger scores 4.6 PPG more than Howard, on 1.6 TS% less of efficiency. Howard is a much better defender.