Prospects Flying Under the Radar

[BillikenBear]

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/19058/jokisch-just-one-prospect-flying-under-radar

Pretty interesting article on ESPN. Thought it was nice to see how others besides the big name prospects were doing. Maybe the system isn't as pitcher deprived as we all thought?

 

[JosMin]

The only real "issue" with the Cubs farm system is that it lacks impact talent that's extremely close to taking the major league step. I still have no idea why Kyle Hendricks hasn't been getting any love this year. He's put of phenomenal numbers so far in AA and if he continues to show growth, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't get a call up next season. When you toss in CJ Edwards, Pierce Johnson, Dillon Maples, Eric Jokisch and Rob Zastryzny, there's a lot to like with the Cubs minor league arms.... we're just a bit far away to seeing how they're going to truly develop.

 

[patg006]

Underwhelming piece....

Talks about Jokisch's no hitter for 4 paragraphs, then a blip mention of his pedestrian ERA and stats at AA. One line said it all, 3 pitch pitcher. He needs a 4th to make it at the big league level as a starter...

Geiger I've heard about on and off, he reminds me of Dionner Novarro. When I'm watching/looking at him, sucks balls. When I dont pay attention--3 home runs. And I periodically keep up with prospects--well--the 5 i think will be on the team in a couple years.

Was Hendricks the damaged goods guy? Or Loux? Either way, neither scream top of rotation studs.......hello long relief in a best case scenario.

When do Almora and Bryant move up to A+ and A-?

 

[JosMin]

Underwhelming piece....

Talks about Jokisch's no hitter for 4 paragraphs, then a blip mention of his pedestrian ERA and stats at AA. One line said it all, 3 pitch pitcher. He needs a 4th to make it at the big league level as a starter...

Geiger I've heard about on and off, he reminds me of Dionner Novarro. When I'm watching/looking at him, sucks balls. When I dont pay attention--3 home runs. And I periodically keep up with prospects--well--the 5 i think will be on the team in a couple years.

Was Hendricks the damaged goods guy? Or Loux? Either way, neither scream top of rotation studs.......hello long relief in a best case scenario.

When do Almora and Bryant move up to A+ and A-?

You apparently haven't seen Hendricks ever pitch. Look at his pro stats. 50 walks in over 300 professional innings. Career WHIP under 1.1, K/BB ratio of 5.25 -- this guy is a quality prospect who understands the game. He's a five-pitch starter with a plus changeup and good command of his other four pitches. He's a smart guy (he went to college at Dartmouth) who knows how to pitch and when to change speeds. He's never going to blow guys away, but he's intelligent to make everything work. Is he the next David Price? No. But he could certainly be a guy in the Cole Hamels mould, a guy who he's been compared to several times.

 

[patg006]

You apparently haven't seen Hendricks ever pitch. Look at his pro stats. 50 walks in over 300 professional innings. Career WHIP under 1.1, K/BB ratio of 5.25 -- this guy is a quality prospect who understands the game. He's a five-pitch starter with a plus changeup and good command of his other four pitches. He's a smart guy (he went to college at Dartmouth) who knows how to pitch and when to change speeds. He's never going to blow guys away, but he's intelligent to make everything work. Is he the next David Price? No. But he could certainly be a guy in the Cole Hamels mould, a guy who he's been compared to several times.

Why are you comparing a right handed pitcher who has never thrown a pitch at the major league level to a "Cole Hamels mold?" Because he has a nice ERA at AA? Thats nice, I dont see you getting this defensive or worked up about Esmailin Caridad, Brooks Raley, or Barrett Loux? They had nice AA ERAs. Not 1.8 good?

Academic smarts mean nothing--as even smart kids can be idiots. Duke lacrosse team.....

Stop grasping at straws. Lets watch him pitch to major leaguers before we collectively blow our loads to a AA earned run average and strikeout/walk ratios.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong when he becomes "not exactly David Price but Cole Hamels."

 

[Jntg4]

Why are you comparing a right handed pitcher who has never thrown a pitch at the major league level to a "Cole Hamels mold?" Because he has a nice ERA at AA? Thats nice, I dont see you getting this defensive or worked up about Esmailin Caridad, Brooks Raley, or Barrett Loux? They had nice AA ERAs. Not 1.8 good?

Academic smarts mean nothing--as even smart kids can be idiots. Duke lacrosse team.....

Stop grasping at straws. Lets watch him pitch to major leaguers before we collectively blow our loads to a AA earned run average and strikeout/walk ratios.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong when he becomes "not exactly David Price but Cole Hamels."

Hendricks has really taken a step forward this year, emerging from being a meh guy to someone who could be something... stats in the minors don't mean shit, but he has progressed as a prospect greatly. Scouting reports tell more than the stats, but in this case he's getting really good reports and stats alike.

 

[BillikenBear]

Underwhelming piece....

Talks about Jokisch's no hitter for 4 paragraphs, then a blip mention of his pedestrian ERA and stats at AA. One line said it all, 3 pitch pitcher. He needs a 4th to make it at the big league level as a starter...

Geiger I've heard about on and off, he reminds me of Dionner Novarro. When I'm watching/looking at him, sucks balls. When I dont pay attention--3 home runs. And I periodically keep up with prospects--well--the 5 i think will be on the team in a couple years.

Was Hendricks the damaged goods guy? Or Loux? Either way, neither scream top of rotation studs.......hello long relief in a best case scenario.

When do Almora and Bryant move up to A+ and A-?

Could have been a much better article, but I do like hearing about other prospects besides the major ones.

Which 5 do you think will be on the team in a couple years?

Hendricks is the guy that doesn't have the best stuff, but is smart and knows how to pitch effectively. He's like Greg Maddux in that sense (not saying he will be as good as him) and if he keeps it up I think he could be a mid or bottom of the rotation guy at best. Not sure about injury history, the only one I can think of that fits the damaged goods label is Vizcaino.

The issue, going along what JosMin said, is that most of the talent is still a couple years away. And the pitching prospects that do project to be top of the rotation guys all seem to be boom or bust prospects, so a lot of things can happen between AA and MLB. There's also the inherent problem with pitching prospects that it's all pretty much a crap shoot anyways. Some of the most sure-fire guys end up being the biggest failures.

 

[patg006]

Could have been a much better article, but I do like hearing about other prospects besides the major ones.

Which 5 do you think will be on the team in a couple years?

Hendricks is the guy that doesn't have the best stuff, but is smart and knows how to pitch effectively. He's like Greg Maddux in that sense (not saying he will be as good as him) and if he keeps it up I think he could be a mid or bottom of the rotation guy at best. Not sure about injury history, the only one I can think of that fits the damaged goods label is Vizcaino.

The issue, going along what JosMin said, is that most of the talent is still a couple years away. And the pitching prospects that do project to be top of the rotation guys all seem to be boom or bust prospects, so a lot of things can happen between AA and MLB. There's also the inherent problem with pitching prospects that it's all pretty much a crap shoot anyways. Some of the most sure-fire guys end up being the biggest failures.

Fair enough, I'll agree with hearing about others from the norm.

5--Javier Baez, CJ Edwards, Kris Bryant, Almora, Pierce Johnson. I feel confident in guessing they will be everyday contributors.

Not as damaged as Hemmorydys, but Ithought Texas did a classy thing after Barrett Loux and Hendricks, like they knew what they initially gave us was damaged goods, then made a trade to make up for it.

I hope 'pitching effectively' is his forte. When you throw slower than the norm, damn good batters smile--as a 90 mph fastball is more desired than 100 with movement.

I proceed cautiously......Randy Wells didnt pitch fast and 'located his stuff' well for one year. I hesitate with guys who dont 'fireball.' I guess that makes me a prisoner of the moment (generation) of the Verlanders, Kershaws, Lincecums, Creedence Clearwater Sabathias, King Felix's, Prices, Matt Cains, Roy Halladay, Wainwright, Stratsburgs, and other guys who throw 95+. The list goes on. I want one of those aces. I think Edwards or Johnson could be the closest thing we currently have in the next couple of years.

 

[JosMin]

Why are you comparing a right handed pitcher who has never thrown a pitch at the major league level to a "Cole Hamels mold?" Because he has a nice ERA at AA? Thats nice, I dont see you getting this defensive or worked up about Esmailin Caridad, Brooks Raley, or Barrett Loux? They had nice AA ERAs. Not 1.8 good?

Academic smarts mean nothing--as even smart kids can be idiots. Duke lacrosse team.....

Stop grasping at straws. Lets watch him pitch to major leaguers before we collectively blow our loads to a AA earned run average and strikeout/walk ratios.

I'll happily admit I'm wrong when he becomes "not exactly David Price but Cole Hamels."

The comparison to Cole Hamels is based on his mound disposition, build (they're the same size) and his style of pitching -- using deception and location more-so then velocity. I never said, "This guy is going to be the right-handed Cole Hamels." There are similarities that draw the two together. I choose to get excited about the comparison, if you don't want to, that's fine. Feel free to continue to whine about everything.

 

[BillikenBear]

Fair enough, I'll agree with hearing about others from the norm.

5--Javier Baez, CJ Edwards, Kris Bryant, Almora, Pierce Johnson. I feel confident in guessing they will be everyday contributors.

Not as damaged as Hemmorydys, but Ithought Texas did a classy thing after Barrett Loux and Hendricks, like they knew what they initially gave us was damaged goods, then made a trade to make up for it.

I hope 'pitching effectively' is his forte. When you throw slower than the norm, damn good batters smile--as a 90 mph fastball is more desired than 100 with movement.

I proceed cautiously......Randy Wells didnt pitch fast and 'located his stuff' well for one year. I hesitate with guys who dont 'fireball.' I guess that makes me a prisoner of the moment (generation) of the Verlanders, Kershaws, Lincecums, Creedence Clearwater Sabathias, King Felix's, Prices, Matt Cains, Roy Halladay, Wainwright, Stratsburgs, and other guys who throw 95+. The list goes on. I want one of those aces. I think Edwards or Johnson could be the closest thing we currently have in the next couple of years.

No Soler? I have big hopes for Almora, I think he'll end up being the best out of the bunch. Maybe not the best statistically, but he strikes me as a big-time leader, extreme tangibles kind of guy. That would be great to have Edwards and Johnson pan out!

Batters smile at 90 mph fastballs... Until they realize that they're swinging, and missing, a change-up that looks exactly like a fastball! Hendricks would definitely have to outsmart opponents, and I think he does have the mental makeup to do that. Although Hendricks would definitely need to bring his A-game mentally day in and day out. The slowest he throws a fastball is reportedly at 87 mph. Now THAT little tidbit does scare me. I do understand the caution.

What I would give to have a guy that throws "fireballs." It's why I wanted Appel or Gray, but it wasn't meant to be. I still miss the old days of Prior and Wood. Maybe the Cubs can get Lincecum when he becomes a FA for you haha. That does bring up the point though that I WOULD rather have a consistently above average pitcher than a flash in the pan dominating pitcher who only lasts a year or two.

 

[SilenceS]

No Soler? I have big hopes for Almora, I think he'll end up being the best out of the bunch. Maybe not the best statistically, but he strikes me as a big-time leader, extreme tangibles kind of guy. That would be great to have Edwards and Johnson pan out!

Batters smile at 90 mph fastballs... Until they realize that they're swinging, and missing, a change-up that looks exactly like a fastball! Hendricks would definitely have to outsmart opponents, and I think he does have the mental makeup to do that. Although Hendricks would definitely need to bring his A-game mentally day in and day out. The slowest he throws a fastball is reportedly at 87 mph. Now THAT little tidbit does scare me. I do understand the caution.

What I would give to have a guy that throws "fireballs." It's why I wanted Appel or Gray, but it wasn't meant to be. I still miss the old days of Prior and Wood. Maybe the Cubs can get Lincecum when he becomes a FA for you haha. That does bring up the point though that I WOULD rather have a consistently above average pitcher than a flash in the pan dominating pitcher who only lasts a year or two.

Almora is on the DL again. He has done well this year but his progression has slowed. He has the lowest ceiling out of all our big prospects but has the lowest floor as well.

 

[BillikenBear]

Almora is on the DL again. He has done well this year but his progression has slowed. He has the lowest ceiling out of all our big prospects but has the lowest floor as well.

Well dammit... But he's only 19, he's still got time. And the injury isn't too serious. Like I said, I don't think he will be the best player stats-wise (at least offensively). I watched an interview on him a while ago, and ever since then I've been hooked. His demeanor, work ethic, approach, preparation, and leadership all stand out to me. And all the reports since then have cemented that belief. Also, what he lacks in physical prowess is made up for by his superb instincts. I think he'll be one of the leaders on the future Cubs teams that'll (hopefully) be winning pennants and multiple world series

 

[Jntg4]

Almora is on the DL again. He has done well this year but his progression has slowed. He has the lowest ceiling out of all our big prospects but has the lowest floor as well.

Do you mean the lowest ceiling and highest floor?

 

[SilenceS]

Do you mean the lowest ceiling and highest floor?

Whoops, my bad, yea. I was in an argument on a game chat when I typed it quick. Didn't re read it.

 

[KBisBack!]

OMG PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:cum:

 

[BillikenBear]

OMG PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:fap:
:cum:

I'm glad (and a little worried) you're THAT excited to see the future of the Cubs!

 

[beckdawg]

I guess that makes me a prisoner of the moment (generation) of the Verlanders, Kershaws, Lincecums, Creedence Clearwater Sabathias, King Felix's, Prices, Matt Cains, Roy Halladay, Wainwright, Stratsburgs, and other guys who throw 95+. The list goes on. I want one of those aces. I think Edwards or Johnson could be the closest thing we currently have in the next couple of years.

For what it's worth you can be a control pitcher in the 90-93 fastball range and still be an ace. Cliff Lee was an under the radar prospect who was a throw in as part of the trade with the expos for colon coming with Brandon Phillips, Lee Stevens, and Grady Sizemore. They are obviously less common than your hard throwing types. But then as far as I'm aware most if not all of those pitchers listed were 1st round draft picks. So, it really shouldn't surprise people that they have become top of the rotation starters.

So, to compare these guys to the pitchers you listed is a bit unrealistic. But the system does have some power pitchers in it. Dillon Maples can hit 95-97 mph on his fastball. Arodys Vizcaino if he can ever get healthy can hit 96. Duane Underwood had a "mid 90's fastbal." I think they hope these guys turn into your front line starters and the the prospects listed in the article turn into good 2's and 3's.

 

[Chris J]

Almora is on the DL again. He has done well this year but his progression has slowed. He has the lowest ceiling out of all our big prospects but has the lowest floor as well.

This is probably the dumbest thing ever said on here. Progression has slowed? Dude he hit .330 and had an OBP of .380. Outstanding fielder. He has a pretty damn good ceiling because there arent major flaws like Baez Olt and Alcantara strike out totals. And Baez bad fielding

 

[patg006]

For what it's worth you can be a control pitcher in the 90-93 fastball range and still be an ace. Cliff Lee was an under the radar prospect who was a throw in as part of the trade with the expos for colon coming with Brandon Phillips, Lee Stevens, and Grady Sizemore. They are obviously less common than your hard throwing types. But then as far as I'm aware most if not all of those pitchers listed were 1st round draft picks. So, it really shouldn't surprise people that they have become top of the rotation starters.

So, to compare these guys to the pitchers you listed is a bit unrealistic. But the system does have some power pitchers in it. Dillon Maples can hit 95-97 mph on his fastball. Arodys Vizcaino if he can ever get healthy can hit 96. Duane Underwood had a "mid 90's fastbal." I think they hope these guys turn into your front line starters and the the prospects listed in the article turn into good 2's and 3's.

Cliff Lee is a special case. His fastball was never a problem, in Cleveland he had to get sent down to AAA because his change up needed complete reconstruction. He redefined his change, and now is one of the dominant pitchers in baseball.

90-93 sure, but I would use Maddux as an example of non-fireball fastball. Lee's go to pitch is his change, and it is nasty.

I forgot about Dillon Maples......another high hopes pitcher. However, his 2 years off was fucking mysterious......

I want a top of the line guy from the system, and like I said, Johnson and Edwards are the two if I were a betting man. Cubs dont have it...

I'm not comparing Hendricks to the list in my prior post, I simply stated I want an ace like that, overpowering fastball as part of his arsenal.

 

[patg006]

This is probably the dumbest thing ever said on here. Progression has slowed? Dude he hit .330 and had an OBP of .380. Outstanding fielder. He has a pretty damn good ceiling because there arent major flaws like Baez Olt and Alcantara strike out totals. And Baez bad fielding

Special person of the day award goes to the guy who didn't read silence fix his own mistake......just had to blow your load on that one....